Considering a 2003 M45...Convince me why I should buy it!!

[SupraStar]

My first post!! I have always driven Toyotas and Lexus. My current car is a 1994 Supra MKIV making 500+ HP, and I recently sold my 1998 GS400 (I regret selling it!). I have always driven Toyota performance cars since they are one of the most reliable vehicles available. My GS400 for example went 190,000KMS and NEVER had an unscheduled trip to the dealer. Impressive indeed!!

However, I simply can't deny the "bang for the buck" of a used M45. IMO, it is the best used car deal around, bar none. Power, luxury, style. And plenty of it! It seems to have it all. I would like to know about the reliability. This car DOES have plenty of electronic gizmos that I worry might give me problems. What are the common failure or problem areas of this car? How often do electronic gremlins surface?

I know I can buy a Lexus GS430 and have exceptional reliability. But the M45 is the better deal. What would I be getting myself into with an M45? C'mon...convince me why I should buy the M45 over the tried and true GS!!

[szh]

My first post!! I have always driven Toyotas and Lexus. My current car is a 1994 Supra MKIV making 500+ HP, and I recently sold my 1998 GS400 (I regret selling it!). I have always driven Toyota performance cars since they are one of the most reliable vehicles available. My GS400 for example went 190,000KMS and NEVER had an unscheduled trip to the dealer. Impressive indeed!!

However, I simply can't deny the "bang for the buck" of a used M45. IMO, it is the best used car deal around, bar none. Power, luxury, style. And plenty of it! It seems to have it all. I would like to know about the reliability. This car DOES have plenty of electronic gizmos that I worry might give me problems. What are the common failure or problem areas of this car? How often do electronic gremlins surface?

I know I can buy a Lexus GS430 and have exceptional reliability. But the M45 is the better deal. What would I be getting myself into with an M45? C'mon...convince me why I should buy the M45 over the tried and true GS!!

Welcome to NICO!

Both are excellent cars ... so either purchase would result in a good outcome, of course.

FWIW, it sounds like you might already made up your mind to go Lexus (with a good experience and history too), so I am not sure that anything we say here will convince you per se.

I compared my original 1991 purchase of a Q45 to the LS400, my purchase of a 1995 Q45 to a GS400, but did not bother to do the same when I bought my 2003 M45. My boss recently extensively compared the 2004 Q45 to the 2004 LS430 and bought the Q45.

So, to sum up our reasons in one word: Soul.

Infiniti has it, Lexus does not. As simple as that! So, I am unlikely to ever buy a Lexus of any kind, although my wife might (she likes the RX350 as an SUV).

Z

P.S. There are a number of recent posts on the questions about what to watch out for. There are a few things to be careful about, so please do a search on reliability and you will get those posts.

[Mark Linkous]

Greetings Suprastar, Much like all Japanese luxury cars, the M45 is indeed "gadget laden". This much reliance on electronics, down to the throttle, does indeed give pause for concern. That being said, Infiniti's are quite reliable. The primary problem areas are the Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS) sensors going bad. Aside from that, there seems to be no statistically significant problem areas. There have been reports of oil consumption issues with the VK45DE powerplant. This seems to affect primarily cars that were not broken in kindly during the 1000 mile initial break-in. That is it on the negative. On the plus side, the engine is truly velvet smooth with prodigious torque. Mid to upper five second sixty runs rolling all the way to a gov. limited 145. Compared to your Supra, it wil merely be quick. Compared to your GS400 it wil be a good bit quicker with much more torque. It will however, be an interstate dream machine. Since it will be next to impossible not to get a 03 M45 with at least basic powertrain warranty remaining, your risk is minimal. Since the car has already depreciated so swiftly you will not stand to lose very much when/if you decide to part with it. The moderator of this forum, Szhosain, recommends the extended warranty. This is truly sage advice with a vehicle with so many electrical systems. I purchased my 04' at the Infiniti dealership last month. By purchasing at the dealer, I was able to get a C.P.O vehicle with a 100,000 mile warranty and further purchase Infiniti's Elite Warranty which further extends the C.P.O warranty with $0 deductible and coverage for the Navigation and the ability to transfer the warranty. If you purchase an 04', the CD changer is integrated into the dash where the tape deck resides in the 03'. Which is darn swell. IF you purchase a M45 with the Technology package, get some sort of extended warranty. I would.Hope this helps,Cheers,Mark

[GNR4ALL]

First of all you cant really compare reliability on two used cars. With a used car it also has to do with luck. I dont care if the GS430 is the most reliable car in the world. The fact of the matter is if the person who owned it before you treated it like s***, you're prone to having problems with it.

Secondly the '03/'04 M45 gets a million times more looks than the gs430. The gs430 is like a glorified toyoya avalon or grandpa's grocery run car. The m45 is a muscle car in a tuxedo.

So if you want to have roomy back seats to bring your children to soccer practice, or be able to say you're driving a Consumer Reports pick car go with the Lexoyota 430. If you want a Hot car with balls, which still happens to be prety reliable go with the M.

[CakeDaddy]

You can buy a Lexus GS and be another pathetic sheep following the herd or you can purchase a car like the 2003-2004 M45 and be marveled at because it’s original.

Beside rims and eibachs (if you can find'em) The aftermaket scene is not too hot with our M's, but........... other than that...

[sr79labrat]

As I have been told....James Bond should have driven this car. If it is good enough for Bond then it is good enough for me. I love the car, and have minor complaints so far....trunk issues, and limited aftermarket performance products. Cops do not notice it to much, ladies love it, and the buddies envy it. Great power, awesome options, bitchin good looks...a muscle car with brains! Love it !!!!! KTWBesides the Lexus is just to plain if you want to be really...really good looking!

[SupraStar]

I expected M45 bias here, but I hadn't expected GS bashing..LOL

I suspect most people here have never driven the GS. My GS ran 13.8 in the 1/4 mile the 1st time I hit the track with it. That was with an exhaust and K&N..that's it. I don't know of too many grandpa grocery getters that run much quicker than that.

I have my doubts the M45 would be much quicker, if any, than the GS, and in most every magazine test I've read, the GS is quicker.

The styling is rather unique with the M45...which I rather like. The M45s I have driven (3 different ones) all seem to have considrably weaker brakes than the factory GS brakes. Are there upgrades available in this regard?

The turning radius in the M45 felt huge. Maybe it was just me?

The leather in the GS was much nicer...but I prefered the wood trim in the M45. The cooled seats in the M45 though are fantastic!! The stereo in the GS sounded better, but the voice-activated commands in the M45 works very well indeed.

Both cars are nice, and I won't go wrong with either. There is no need for an extended warranty with the GS..but it sounds like everyone here recommends one for the M45. To me, that sounds like the M5 might be a touch less reliable..likely due to the complexity of the M45 gizmos.

Who here is very high mileage M45s? I'd really like to hear from them...

[CakeDaddy]

There is no need for an extended warranty with the GS..but it sounds like everyone here recommends one for the M45. To me, that sounds like the M5 might be a touch less reliable..likely due to the complexity of the M45 gizmos.

Who here is very high mileage M45s? I'd really like to hear from them...

No bashing here! I’ve never driven the new GS, but that isn't to say the car isn't nice. It's very nice looking, but they are a dime a dozen and more expensive. You are correct about the turning radius on this M; it’s not that good. And, regardless of what car you own, if they have an extended warranty available you may wanna get it, so your comment “There is no need for an extended warranty with the GS” is kinda wild to me. Mercedes is one of the top of the line cars out there and you can believe mine has the extended warranty, regardless of the so called " mercedes reputation" I'd love to see anyone drive off the lot with a high end luxury car and opt out of taking the extended warranty. My M has 29K, so I dont qualify to answer the high mileage question, but there are a few guys here that can.

[cremecreme]

My M45 just hit 60K...no smoke, no burning oil...knock on wood!!! And she still runs like a champ!!!!

[szh]

I expected M45 bias here, but I hadn't expected GS bashing..LOL

Well ... not all the folks are bashing GS's, and the bias here is natural. I am sure it would be the other way on a Lexus site!

The GS430 is a fine car too ... just a different target buyer, IMHO.

I suspect most people here have never driven the GS. My GS ran 13.8 in the 1/4 mile the 1st time I hit the track with it. That was with an exhaust and K&N..that's it. I don't know of too many grandpa grocery getters that run much quicker than that.

I have not driven the GS430, but have driven a GS400. Clearly, if you put a powerful V-8 into a lighter car (than the LS430), it will perform well. That is essentially the reason for the difference between the Infiniti Q45 and M45 too!

My problem with Lexus is that, in general, I find the them bland. No soul!

But there are exceptions: my wife, for example, likes the RX350 a lot (okay, it is not a sedan ) and I think it is one of the better looking SUV's around of that size, so we may get that for her.

I have my doubts the M45 would be much quicker, if any, than the GS, and in most every magazine test I've read, the GS is quicker.

Now that I do not know about ... I have not looked recently. In all the older comparisons, the M45 did very well (recent C&D comparisons on the new models, in particular) compared to other price-comparable cars. Including the GS430, as I recall.

The styling is rather unique with the M45...which I rather like.

One of the main reasons we got the car!

The M45s I have driven (3 different ones) all seem to have considrably weaker brakes than the factory GS brakes. Are there upgrades available in this regard?

Getting a good technician to adjust brakes properly makes a difference. My 2003 M45 stops very well, but I have not compared it to a GS430, so I cannot comment on that.

The turning radius in the M45 felt huge. Maybe it was just me?

Hmmm ... I can say that it is as good as my wife's current Acura 2.2 CL (which is a much smaller car, but FWD) so I am satisfied with the M45 turning radius. Admittedly, this is not a measure that I worry about though ...

Both cars are nice, and I won't go wrong with either.

Now that is something I would agree with ... and said so in my first post too!

There is no need for an extended warranty with the GS..but it sounds like everyone here recommends one for the M45. To me, that sounds like the M5 might be a touch less reliable..likely due to the complexity of the M45 gizmos.

Perhaps, but the day you do have an electronic problem with the GS430 (and they are not immune to it, no matter how reliable the Lexus is), you may regret the lack of an extended warranty. All modern car electronics are expensive to repair/replace - no matter which manufacturer you are talking about!

Who here is very high mileage M45s? I'd really like to hear from them...

I do not know if this qualifies as high mileage, but I have about 47k miles on my 2003 M45. No major problems - just very minor typical things - and my oil consumption is really low (about 1/4 to 1/2 quart, occasionally a tad higher, every 3750 miles).

So far, the only irritating thing I have had go wrong (other than being hit from the rear once) are the trunk struts, and they were replaced under warranty, and the trunk opening function is working perfectly now.

Z

[SupraStar]

I stand by my statement with the GS not requiring an extended warranty. Like most of you, I would read my Lexus forum everyday and have been to many Lexus meets. No joke...these things just don't break....and an electronic problem is almost unheard of. The closest thing electrical that I have ever seen break is the starter (which is a huge PITA to replace by the way!). And the stuff that does break are wear items which wouldn't be covered under warranty anyhow. To be fair, the Infiniti DOES have many, many more electronic gizmos that could go awry than the GS. Add in the fact that the GS is built in the only Platinum rated car plant in the world, and you have just about the most reliable car built. The only 2 cars that rate higher on the luxury end for reliability are the other 2 cars that have been built at the same plant..the SC430 and the LS430. As I said, my car had nearly 120,000 miles without a service visit. And my car has "low" mileage compared to some of the GS cars at our meets.

Oh...and just to clarify...I was looking at a 2003 GS430 and NOT the brand new ones. Also..strangely..the 2003 GS430 is SLOWER than the GS400 it replaced, which is odd. And the NEW GS430 is slower than both previous versions.

By reading the forums here, it doesn't seem like there is much aftermarket support or much modding to these cars. The Lexus on the other hand has TONS of aftermarket support...from suspension bushings all the way to turbos. How's the aftermarket for the M45? Is there much in the way of bolt-ons? I've seen an OBD-II fuel controller on an FX45, and I suspect it would work on the M45 as well.

Has anyone had their car on a dyno to see what kind of RWHP and RWTQ they make? I'd be really interested to see some numbers...

[flizsr45]

Reason 1. Rare, you do not see many on hte road. 2. Styling, this vehicle turns heads. 3. Power, very fast and smooth. 4. Very reliable (except see reasons not to)! 5. Price, alot of value for the money.

REASON NOT TO! 1. Oil consumption.

word of advice, what ever mileage it has on it get the service done . ie.transmission flush, coolant, belts replaced, oil change, etc.

I just bought one 2 months ago, from a nissan dealer and I'm happy with the vehicle. Just upset that the previous owner did not take care of it. The maintenance that needs to be done. So now I have to monitor the oil because its using to much, and the 30,000 mile service was never done, trying to get the dealer to do it. Pray for me.

Good luck to you! Go M45

[cremecreme]

The Lexus Gs 430's are a dime a dozen...i see them every where....and the prices for the same year same mileage are about $5000-$7000 more...cause they are so popular....everyone ask me what Infiniti is that all the time! And i have seen maybe 2 on the road in the South since i bought it...i have seen at least 20 different GS everyday. so i think it is totally up to you. Maybe the relability may be proven with the GS, but maybe only a few have really had a significant problem with the M. The power and handling are really about the same...1 thing i notice though in Lexus the leather seats tend to wear out badly and quickly..rather than Infiniti

[SupraStar]

^^^^ I agree. The GS is more expensive....which is why I believe the M45 is the best used car bargain PERIOD for a luxury car. Nothing comes comes on a bang-per-buck basis.

Can you elaborate on the oil consumption problem? Where does the oil go? Is it blow-by? Is it a seal problem? And how much consumption are we talking about? As an auto engineer, I've evaluated a few products that tend to really help this out....

[auditech10]

There are at least a dozen threads about oil consumption concerns for this engine. Do a simple search and you will find them all. And having been a tech for 5 years I have not heard of a product that will fix this problem. You can hide it all you want with whatever additives or tricks you can think of but when that wont work anymore at least I wouldnt want to be stranded on the road with a blown engine.Toyota/Lexus has had a horrible reputation for oil sludge problems and it is common practive to check for it as early as 20K miles and not recommended to buy used car with sludge problem at any time of its history.

[SupraStar]

Sludging has never been a problem for the Toyota V8s. Sludging was only a problem on some 3.0 V6s and 2.2 4 bangers.

A product called Auto-RX will fix any leaks that are occurring through rear main seals, stuck rings, valve seal etc. It will also remove any varnish on parts, which is amazing. This is one of the few additives that is not "snake oil". There are many, many, many threads an pictures at BITOG, as well as several sceptic website who were sold on the product after using it. The results of this product are dramatic, and many in the racing community as well as the LS1 and LT1 guys love the stuff...

[cremecreme]

wow i checked the website...i am afraid though once i start using and i will have to keep using that.....the engine might turn into a JUNKY!!