coil spring cutting

[elwesso]

alright guys. Calm down... He clearly SAID that cutting factory springs is not the preferred method. WE CAN ALL AGREE ON THAT... We can agree also that lowering of any type (cutting springs or lowering springs) will wear the suspension faster... It may not put that much extra wear on other things, but it will certainly wear the shocks out faster....

I think this discussion is stupid, people are arguing about things they already agree on....

All you have to do is be aware of the pro's/con's either way and make an educated decision.... For certain cars that dont really drive much [show cars] and want to have them slammed theres no reason that spring cutting is bad... If you're concerned about longevity and overall drivability, lowering springs are probably a better idea...

Theres always an ideal setup for ones goals....

[Raxephon]

There is nothing wrong with cutting a coil spring as long as:A: you do not cut more than 2 coils off of itB that you are fully aware of the reduced ride quality C: that you are fully aware of the accelerated wear on suspension components

And there is never anything wrong with someone experimenting with new ideas related to their own personal vehicle. There is nothing wrong with giving advice to someone and letting them decide whether to take it or not.

There is something wrong with trying to convince someone that your way is the right way and the only way.

[bullittandy]

There is nothing wrong with cutting a coil spring as long as:A: you do not cut more than 2 coils off of itB that you are fully aware of the reduced ride quality C: that you are fully aware of the accelerated wear on suspension components

And there is never anything wrong with someone experimenting with new ideas related to their own personal vehicle. There is nothing wrong with giving advice to someone and letting them decide whether to take it or not.

There is something wrong with trying to convince someone that your way is the right way and the only way.

I like this summary very much.

This is an important discussion becuase there is a theme on the Q45 board in which almost any deviation from stock is to frowned upon. I get tired of people saying "you can't/shouldn't do that." I especially get tired of people who say this and have no idea WHY they're saying it. I always listen to Q45 tech because he's got facts and I always listen to someone who's ACTUALLY tried/accomplished the mod I'm trying.

I don't hear many, if any insulting comments from people who mod their cars towards those that keep their's stock. Its about respect, I don't tell people who want to use OEM oil filters (versus aftermarket) that they're wrong, nor do I condescend to them.

[pdqwrx]

I have to say (Because everyone else has had there say) that I almost prefer my 94 Q45 with stock cut springs and 18" wheels to the California customs springs with 17" or 18" wheels (And Tokico blues). I have tried many different wheel, tire and spring combo's on my Q and all have been OK. Infact the worst ride as far as stiffness and increased NVH (Noise Vibration and Harshness) was with the California Custom springs. Since I don't track the Q and use it for long long trips where I need comfort and control, the cut stock springs with Tokico blues and my 18" wheels provide a great compromise between ride comfort and control. The Cali Customs are louder, stiffer and I think take away alot of what makes the Q a great long distance runner. But really, everyone here is only stating there opinion. CaptainLuigi, it is now up to you to take all this fodder and try to turn it in to information that you can use....Good Luck!

P.S. As for suspension wear, lowering the car will almost always change the wear characteristics of your tires, struts and bushings. That is a price we pay to look good! But a shorter spring is a shorter spring and an inch is still an inch whether you buy it or cut it.

[Rex]

...But a shorter spring is a shorter spring and an inch is still an inch whether you buy it or cut it.

Here's where I get "concerned". That's not an accurate statemtent.

Cutting the spring changes the spring rate ... the question is how much do you have to cut to accomplish the drop you want, and what's the net effect to the "spring rate". The "spring rate" for a coil wound spring is determined by the spring’s inside diameter (id), the number of active coils, and the wire diameter. To increase rate, use larger-diameter wire, a larger id, or fewer coils. Therefore, simply removing some of the coil, changes the spring rate of the spring itself.

Cutting a spring immediately increases the spring rate, which will increase ride stiffness slightly. But there’s more to the story. Because there is a ratio between the spring and the front suspension, the amount the spring is cut is multiplied when the spring is installed in the car. There is disagreement on the specific ratio, but sources place it between 1.5:1 and 2:1. This means that cutting a spring by 1 inch would mean dropping the ride height between 1.5 and 2 inches. Maybe some can weigh in on their results??

Oh yeah, how about more discussing the topic and less bitching about each others tendancy towards OEM-ness or modding. Thanks

[elwesso]

Rex what you're saying is true but its not really as big of a deal with the linear springs... Youll just have less of the softer area to help cusion the ride...

Scott thats interesting you liked the ride better with the cut stock springs....

[pdqwrx]

I don't remember exactly how much I cut off the springs but I lowered the car about 1.5" in front and maybe 1.25 in the back. With this setup the car still has a small amount of "Soft" spring before it starts to get stiff and when the spring does get "stiff" it is still softer then the California Customs.Now the CC springs are much stiffer, especially on expansion joints and "Bots" dots. They are great on a twisty road, I have just found my use of the Q to be one of high speed comfortable travel, not canyon carving. I have my SR20 powered S13 for that........Which has a set of Tien coilovers and rides better then my Q with the CC springs. That probably has alot to do with the overall weight and chassis set up.

At some point I will have both sets of springs out of the car and will compare overall length. My quess would be that the stock springs are a little longer then the CC's.

[bullittandy]

On my 97 I cut exactly one coil off the front springs, this led to a 1 inch drop up front. I think that this amounts to about 1 inch of actual length on a uncompressed spring although I can't remember exactly.

[illtww]

Aren't we all missin one BIG point here....

The CC springs are NOT available for the 90 - 96 Q's any more...

SO what is someone supposed to do if they want that "sport" look on their 90 - 96 q?

Cut stock springs or steal someones CC's?

[Falkdesigns]

I've tried to find a JDM spring for the G50. If someone can find a current part number for G50 springs in Japan, I will look into bringing multiple sets over.

[illtww]

falkdesigns is my NEW best friend..

[pdqwrx]

Before the CC springs came along I found an Australian company that was still making some G50 springs. I ran accross them at SEMA last year. Since I am currently at SEMA I will check into it again and let you know if I find anything.

Scott

[Jesda]

Aren't we all missin one BIG point here....The CC springs are NOT available for the 90 - 96 Q's any more... SO what is someone supposed to do if they want that "sport" look on their 90 - 96 q? Cut stock springs or steal someones CC's?

I thought the goal was handling, with looks as a side benefit. If you start modifying your suspension for vanity, you might be better off in a Lexus.

[elwesso]

really lowering springs dont make the car handle better (may make it feel like it due to less body roll)

[superuber]

I've tried to find a JDM spring for the G50. If someone can find a current part number for G50 springs in Japan, I will look into bringing multiple sets over.

Not to change the subject, can you do anything with the jdm clear headlights from japan? I would love a pair.(sorry to get off topic)

[pito11213]

"Lowering a vehicle can sharpen the looks and increase performance dramatically. But what does it really do and why does it help?

Imagine a car as a giant 3000lb weight suspended above the wheels. When you turn, that weight is shifted opposite of the direction by gravity trying to compensate for the force. This is what’s known as body roll. This is what spills your coffee. This is due to a high center of gravity in combination with saggy springs. When you install lowering springs, you are reducing the center of gravity therefore creating less resistance on the chassis through the turns. This will result in quicker steering response and crisper road feel. The look of lowering car or truck is also unmatched. Closing that wheel gap that is present makes the entire look of the vehicle more aggressive. Be sure when choosing a ride height you measure all wheel clearances. The drop will be the amount from the bottom on the fender lip to the top of the tire. Make sure you have room! It is imperative! You may also want to look into spring rates. Different springs have different rates, which will affect the handling of the vehicle and the overall ride quality. Higher spring rates will yield a tighter suspension but a stiffer ride. Softer springs will still increase performance but will maintain a decent ride quality.

Choosing the proper spring takes a bit a time and research. Doing it right the first time will save you a headache in the long run. Remember when lowering a vehicle, it is generally recommended to add a camber correction kit. This will keep your alignment in spec and tread of your tires."That was my general understanding of using lowering springs. This in conjunction with good tires and other components make for a nice ride. My experience is with an acura legend. Most people chose the koni sport kit in addition to an addco rear tie bar and that changed the dynamics of the vehicle. The koni sport kit offered eibach springs with a drop of about 1.5" The ride was still everyday usable with providing a firm sport orientated ride.

Just to clarify, that quote is from the internet. It is one of the many articles that I researched when looking for info on suspension. I have researched many different options and have discovered that suspension is where you should start when modding a car. Then again that is based on you modding a car with performance gains in mind. If you just want a car to look good then by all means go ahead.

Thanks Falk, I have loved the evolution of your Q over the years. What you got for my LS400

Modified by pito11213 at 2:04 PM 11/2/2006
Modified by pito11213 at 2:05 PM 11/2/2006

[Falkdesigns]

That's very good pito!

Super, headlights aren't so easy for me to get, it needs to be something that I can order from a company like Tein, RSR, etc.

[superuber]

That's very good pito!

Super, headlights aren't so easy for me to get, it needs to be something that I can order from a company like Tein, RSR, etc.

I see, any suggestions on where I can start?

[Rex]

Falk, not that I'm in the market, but for those that are

JIC Magic for Q45 94-96 G50 50FLTA2VIP* ***** 9kg/7kg

*Special Order Only. Confirmation Required.*****Specify front lower bracket bolt diameter. Either 20mm or 22mm sizes.

I find that last part very interesting ... that may be the difference between the lowering mounting point size from 90-93 to 94-96. That would be very helpful to know.

[Q_SHIP]

I cut the sotck springs on my 97 and am very pleased with the results. 1" drop, minor decrease in ride quality, improved looks and was "free" (took about 3 hours).

There have been no "safety" issues but I'm sure that the suspension geometry is changed but the car aligned fine.

Buy an extra set of springs and then you can feel free to experiment.

P.S. I've been told twice to not cut the springs on cars (55 Chevy and 97 Q45), both times the standard line of "It won't work" has been wrong.

How badly did this change the ride? Any bottoming out?

[bullittandy]

I would have to ride in my car and a stock car back to back in order to tell the difference-essentially no change. In other words I am extremely happ/surprised with the ride.

The suspension does not bottom out, its been about 10,000 miles so far.

[Q_SHIP]

Can you post a pisture of the car? Im curious how it looks.

[Rex]

Can you post a pisture of the car? Im curious how it looks.

zer...87852

[Q_SHIP]

Is that just the fronts cut.

Go I wish I could ride in your car before I consider it.

[Q45tech]

Probably easily to find junkyard oem springs if you make a mistake!

Whereas the 90-96 Q springs get eaten up by those converting Actives.

[bullittandy]

Is that just the fronts cut.

Go I wish I could ride in your car before I consider it.

It is just the fronts, I'm going to cut the rears when I replace the rear struts. I have an extra set of front springs that I'll sell you for what I paid (can't remember price right now $85 or so) .

I can say that you could cut your springs and try it for a bit and if you don't like it then replace with stockers. I can almost gaurentee that the ride will not be objectionable enough that you couldn't live with for a few weeks/months even if you wanted it back to stock.

My car (cut springs) rides (subjectively) better than any other car I've ridden in, including 05 Lexus ES350, 01 Volvo V70, 96 Mercedes E320. I have absolutely no regrets.

[Q_SHIP]

Has it settled yet? Anymore than a half inch yet?

[bullittandy]

I don't think that it has settled since the springs I cut were already on the car.

I cut one full coil off the spring which translated into a 1" drop.

[Q_SHIP]

I don't think that it has settled since the springs I cut were already on the car.

I cut one full coil off the spring which translated into a 1" drop.

And this was the bottome coil correct? Is this what you plan for the rears as well?

[one ton garage]

If anything, you'll usually want to cut springs from the top down actually...