https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/27/renault ... ysler.html

So, I stumbled across this article earlier this morning, and don't like what is being talked about. Why would Nissan want to completely merge with Renault and then be associated with a dying brand Fiat-Chrysler? Only benefit I see with this merger and buyout is that the alliance will become bigger than any other manufacturers (i.e. Volkswagen and Toyota).

There's some pretty strong brands in there - Specifically Ram and Jeep in the US. Say what you want about either one - the both sell well.

Yeah I wouldn't call FCA a dying brand... I would never own one, but then again, I wouldn't own a new Nissan or Renault either.

File this under the "what the F ever" category as it really doesn't affect me.

It's widely known that Chrysler has been spitting out rubbish cars for years. Transmission and engine problems plus low quality plastic interiors. Mind you, some of the older engines and one or two of the newer engines are quite good, but overall it's been a crap company for years. Fiat, long recognized as a crap company in the UK is also one of the lowest rated for reliability. In fact, the Fiat 500 has been consistently one of the lowest ranked cars by Consumer Reports in the US. Fiat is ranked 12th in the UK with an average of 112 problems per 100 vehicles made (mostly electrics). Renault, at least back home, has a better rep than Chrysler does in the states (Chrysler pulled out of the UK in 2017 because nobody would buy one, LOL). Renault is considered a 'moderately dependable' brand - mostly down to electrics being less than great. What makes renault score better than others in the UK is the lower costs for repairs and maintenance, making them among the most affordable cars to own and drive.

About the merger:
Technically, Renault already owns 44% of Nissan and Nissan owns 15% of Renault.
The only 'good' reason to have FAC join the Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi alliance is that it "could" (yah this sounds like a Bond film) become a leg up toward what they officially refer to as: Global Domination along with the Volkswagen Group and Toyota. FAC would love to merge with someone ... anyone. But there are other issues.
Just before the arrest of Carlos Ghosn, he was actively maneuvering to make the current shareholdings and alliance "irreversible". The interim alliance board is led by Renault chairman Jean-Dominique Senard and latest reports are that Senard will also spearhead this idea. Therein lies the rub. No changes in stock, owner shares, management .... ever?
Japan feels that Renault benefits greater in the alliance than Nissan. The French government owns 15% of Renault and the finance minister wants closer to an equal sharing of ownership between the existing three companies. When Nissan was rescued from the brink of bankruptcy by Renault in 1999, the original agreement made sense. But now, Nissan, and the Japanese government do not feel so comfy with the current arrangement. So ... where do things stand? The French government is involved (which is usually the kiss of death to sensible negotiations), Nissan wants a re-alignment of shareholdings, France wants to renegotiate everything, and poor little FAC is waiting at the door dressed like a tart, staring in the window on prom night without a date.

Based on what I have been reading, there doesn't seem to be a place for FAC until the French minister, Renault, and Nissan can sit with chairman Senard, develop a trust (which hasn't happened) and stabilize the current situation. As long as the political struggle between Japan and France continues, it's hard to predict what will happen with FAC (aside from continuing spitting out one or two sedans and some SUVs and trucks - all with a lower reliability than Renault or Nissan).

not everything Chrysler builds is crap. Their trucks stand up well to the competition. They just can't build a decent cheap car without it coming across as extremely cheap (200, Avenger, Neon, PT Cruiser, Dart - these are what drag down the reputation because they are truly garbage vehicles) I'll put my Ram up against any Titan. I already know it's a much better truck, all things being equal, and sales confirm that.

They've owned the minivan market for years until recently losing out to Honda and Toyota, and that's largely due to the fact they just haven't refreshed it enough. That said, the Chrysler minivan interiors are still quite innovative.

I will agree that the Fiat alliance has not been good for Chrysler, save for the fact that it's kept them solvent.

Now after losing again in North America by not being able to sell cars for squat, Fiat raises the idea of a merger with Renault.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/ca ... 256498001/

The only thing Fiat has that sells cars is Chrysler/Jeep, they could not sell any Fiats here, people refuse to buy them. Why not, they are crap cars. Yet they have the balls to request a dividend payment to 'even up' the otherwise 50/50 deal. Ridiculous. The deal should not be 50/50 to begin with.

Article goes further to mention that Mitsubishi and Nissan are already not necessarily happy with the Renault deal as it applies to them too.

And now Renault saying 50/50 is too even, more like 60/40 Renault/Fiat.............Nissan and Mitsubishi nervously watching.

The merger deal is dead, Nissan wisely stopped it by refusing to go along with it. That pushed Renault to rebel against it too.

FYI, while I was in parts Dodge truck owners were some of my most frequent customers and most of them b-tched endlessly about what pieces of crap Dodge trucks were..........if they previously owned a Ford or GM it got even worse. They loved the looks but not all the breakage.

Apparently there really ARE people at Nissan who can smell a bad deaL. amc49 is correct - the deal is dead. As I said in my previous post, Fiat is sat on the doorstep waiting and hoping that someone will have a go, but I think most everyone knows better. I'm close to 100% sure that Nissan will continue to make a fuss over ownership stakes, intellectual property tights, etc with Renault. At the time Renault / Nissan happened, there was little hope for Nissan to stay afloat and they were pretty much at the mercy of the French so they accepted the Renault 'life raft' deal that would stop Nissan from closing it's doors and sending countless people worldwide to the poor house.
Today the market has changed, Nissan's health as a company has improved, but the French government and its stubborn child Renault have not changed their minds. Nissan still wants to modify the merger in a way that is more fair, if not at least more profitable for them. Then there is the bit that Nissan was asked to hand over i's latest technology to the others. That is simply not going to happen. So with Renault, partly owned by the French government (not the brightest) is already in a pickle with an unhappy partner named Nissan. Then along comes Fiat/Chrysler wanting to jump into the mosh pit? True, Chrysler is doing well with the Jeep brand and Ram trucks but little else is going all that well for them and now they are saddled with the sinking Fiat brands? Fiat is not making any cars that are in demand - it's that simple. Fiat were in the states until the 1990s and were forced to pull out due to low sales, low quality, and low demand. They will likely pull out of the US market again and soon. The 500 series never really made a splash - and then it became well known that the 500 series was low quality. cheaply made, unreliable, and expensive to maintain. The first year back in the states (2012) they sold less than 50,000 cars and last year they barely squeaked above 15,000. The LAST thing any car maker needs to do is merge with the SS Fiat whilst it lists to starboard, dead in the water with bent propellor shafts. Americans are no longer interested in mini-type cars and it's doubtful demand will increase anytime soon. When Chrysler merged with Fiat, thinking they will at least do well with the Mini brand, I thought "two wrongs don't make a right". You have an American company that builds low quality, unreliable cars merging with foreign company who also makes low quality, unreliable cars. What good could possibly come from that? The Jeep / SUVs and Ram trucks can barely keep Chrysler afloat and now there is yet another hole in the hull called Fiat?
Bottom line: If the auto industry management does not properly manage and plan their cars to fit changing markets and demands, the market will eventually force changes on the car industry. We all saw GM lopping off it's duplicate nameplates like olds and pontiac which were not all that different from the rest of the lineup and chisel itself down to a more market driven number of brands. I still think GM would do even better with just two nameplates - Cadillac for luxury, and Chevrolet for muscle cars, SUVs, and trucks. Everyone is headed that way. GM, Ford, and Chrysler are dropping models and heading towards larger vehicles. Fiat has no safe place in that type of market. They need to go back home, concentrate on making higher quality, more reliable cars and sell them in Europe until there is a rebirth of demand for mini cars in the states.

I think FCA as a global corporation is doing okay, but not so well here in the US. Jeep and Ram sales are still okay, but everything else has been sliding badly. They're lucky that so many US consumers have been so loyal as FCA vehicles have dominated the least reliable models/models to avoid lists. Not a good sign for long term repeat sales. So it wouldn't shock me if Renault is looking to buy a bigger stake and make big changes. The status quo is not working.

It'll be interesting to watch. After all, Mopah guys get annoyed when you tell them "nice Fiat", Imagine their reactions to becoming "Le Jeep" or "La R-r-r-r-ram (rolled tongue) It'll be "tres bien" to see or as 'Muricans pronounce it: "trezz beans"

I happened to read more articles as of recent to find out that FCA canceled the merger deal because France and Renault wanted to hear from Nissan. The merger would have given Nissan 7.5% stake into Renault without any voting rights in the upper management, which is down from its current 15%, while Renault will have a higher stake in Nissan with full voting rights. It also came about that FCA wanted to force Nissan to give its technology features (i.e. ProPilot Assist, hybrid system, etc.) to FCA, which raised eyebrows. Saikawa even made a statement that this matter needs to be looked at with serious thought and decision making, and the French delayed for a decision twice so that Nissan can give a decision.