Clutch Chatter

[Haitian_King]

Well, I've gotten my transmission problem narrowed down to clutch chatter and a possible burnt band. I searched the forum and nothing came up. the only threads on clutches were in regards to fan clutches.

So, what to do next? Brian suggests that I stay away from AAMCO.

How big of a problem is this?

[goody90q45]

What's your symptoms? Slipping, rough shifting, not wanting to shift, all gears, 1st-2nd.... Were you able to plug in the old 2nd gear start TCU to rule that out?

[Haitian_King]

No. I didn't have a chance to put the 2nd gear start in, I've been at school and the 2nd gear start is on my brother's dresser. (Quite the odd place to leave it, but I know it'll be safe and easily found again.)

I just took the car to the shop and the tech drove the car around Flourtown with me in the passenger seat. He was impressed by the condition of the car and the low mileage.

Symptoms are slow acceleration through 1st. Or more effort to attain speed. Feels like the car is working harder than it used to. 2-3rd is weird. Like two shifts between the gears. A small shift and then the larger legitimate shift. It's not bad on the highway. Really noticeable during local driving. There's a vibration that seems to travel the length of the car during first gear. I really feel it in my seat and steering wheel.

[goody90q45]

Symptoms are slow acceleration through 1st. Or more effort to attain speed. Feels like the car is working harder than it used to. 2-3rd is weird. Like two shifts between the gears. A small shift and then the larger legitimate shift. It's not bad on the highway. Really noticeable during local driving.

Call me crazy Reji but except for the couple of sentences about 2nd-3rd wierd shifting the symptoms you just described sound like it could be a fuel pump and/or FPCU. What do you think?

[elwesso]

He can always check fuel pressure,but IIRC this happened right after the flush? Also, as I recall he only did one flush. I woudl do another flush just to make sure.

Definitely, check fuel pressure and see whta happens.. Seems weird that a Q trans would fail at such low miles. Was your trans ever replaced under warranty??? (Check under the car and see if you have a pan with a drain plug)

If the flush doesnt work you're probably going to need a new fuel pump

On a Q45 its NEVER a bad idea to check it..

[maxnix]

Never understtod if the mechanical ATF exchange was performed with the pan drop, filter, gasket, O ring and one time use bolts replacement? Or just a fill and drain leaving over a gallon of contaminated fluid and gunk in the transmission? BG Quick Clean used?

Fuel pressure must be measured and plotted vs. rpm and throttle position.

The sooner you get to Keith and quit dinking around with people that don't know the G50 and the VH45DE, the better off you, your Q45, and your pocket book will be. Wasting money on WAG while your car deteriorates further is not a winning strategy.

Not only do you have to do the right things to maintain your car, you have to ask the correct questions and know procedures when you are at the mercy of an uninformed "mechanic."

[Haitian_King]

No mechanical exchange, but the fluid exchange was done according to the 2 minute method. You know, the one Wes does?

The pan was dropped, cleaned, and a new trans filter kit purchased and installed. No BG, I was still unclear on the use of chemical cleaners on possibly damaged transmissions. From what I could gather from the board it didn't seem like an entirely a good idea.

The problems didn't seem to start until after I got the flush and the First Gear TCU in. It might be possible that I had the first gear issue and never noticed it because my Q had never started in first.

A bad fuel pump causes vibration in the seat and wheel during acceleration? I'll look it up and see if I can match some symptoms.

I don't believe the trans was replaced before. I didn't think that a trans could fail this early, but when I checked the fluid a couple of weeks ago, it was brown. So it might have been abused before I got it.

I'll have a flush done this weekend (BG? Yay or Nay?) and see what happens.

I have to call the warranty company before getting the trans fixed to get an approved claim number and find out my deductible. Hopefully, they cover the whole thing.

Sorry for being slow on the acronyms, but what's WAG?

Brian, I'm a man. I have a wallet. Not a pocket book. Do you?

[goody90q45]

Symptoms are slow acceleration through 1st. Or more effort to attain speed. Feels like the car is working harder than it used to. 2-3rd is weird. Like two shifts between the gears.

The vibration is not related to this. Probably trannty mounts. I was referring to the acceleration you described. The fuel's not there under load. Something to consider.

[elwesso]

For the record, the last transmission fluid change I did I did a mechanical exchange. its easier and I got a good deal, so I didnt really lose that much money..

The 2 minute drill really only works if your trans fluid is really clean. In my case my trans fluid was trashed, so I figured id save the wasted time.

See what your warranty company says... Honestly, if they make you get a trans from a local rebuilder, its probably not worth that effort... Insist that you have it done at the dealer.

Whoever said using quick clean for automatic transmissions was a bad idea? must have been reading another forum, because it wasnt here.

IF YOU HAVE A DRAIN PLUG ON YOUR TRANS, YOU HAVE A NEW TRANS FROM INFINITI. SHOULD THIS BE THE CASE, YOU ALSO HAVE A FILTER NEAR THE BATTERY. CHECK THAT AND REPORT BACK INSTEAD OF ASSUMING.

I am in agreement with Brian. Q45s are tough cars to own. You either have to know what you're doing so you can either do tasks yourself, or spoonfeed it to a technician who can turn the wrenches for you. or, of course take it to someone who knows what the deal is (keith), but of course you have to be lucky enough to live close to them to drive the car to them (you are)...

Bottom line: Read my signature. If you're not willing to do your graduate studies in Q45, then take it to someone who already has.

[Haitian_King]

I'm willing to take the course. For the moment I guess I'm considered a part time student.

I'd go check the pan drain plug, but I'm in class now.

The warranty company contract says I can take the car to anyone I want, but the amount of the claim can't exceed Blue Book Value of the car. And they only cover $55 an hour for labor. Keith's rate is $85.

The thing about Quick Clean was that if the trans was bad, it wouldn't help IIRC.

I'm still learning about Q mechanicals, it's just going really slowly. Plus if I mess it up, I'm in a world of excrement.

[qship96]

Sounds like its time to retire the problematic Q and get a much newer,simpler economical jap car {civic,corolla,sentra,etc} that will be reliable and trouble free and allow you to concentrate on being a student and enjoying your college years!

[Haitian_King]

Those cars aren't me. When I got my Q, the girl I was seeing at the time was like "That car is so YOU." I was like, "You're right."

Why do women squeeze their feet into those pointed shoes? To look good. Guess why I deal with the Q. As much heartache it's been casuing me, I just take a look at it and remember why I ever bought it in the first place. I wouldn't trade it for anything. Plus, I have to justify putting all this money into it. I couldn't bear to sell a 15 year old Q with 89K on it. That's a great find. I'd hate to make someone else that happy.

I'm keeping the Q until it explodes, or is totaled in a horrific car accident. I had a daydream (day-mare?) that I crossed an intersection and someone ran a red light and demolished the right side of the Q. I then saw it labeled as totaled by GEICO. But I bought it back for $500 and rebuilt it. A happy ending I guess.

But back to the matter at hand. The car no longer seems to be working hard for acceleration. It accelerates better now. (Though it could be much better. I want to say it's going at 80%? Still reducing people to the size of Matchbox cars in the rearview by the time I hit 40 MPH though.) I still get the vibration in the steering wheel and in my seat just about all the way through 1st gear.

I talked to this one former Infiniti Tech who runs a small shop about the transmission mounts. I no longer believe in him. He said that the transmission mount is not a problem and that the vibration is from somthing else. he says that the mounts are never a problem. I guess every Infiniti Tech isn't that great.

I'm going to call the warranty company and call Keith's to make an appointment for Saturday. Or maybe next weekend (My store is going to busy this weekend so I don't think I can take the morning off to drive out to Mantua.)

What should I tell them? The AAMCO guy said to pay attention to how I word the claim because the company will try to weasel out of the claim.

[elwesso]

I would still try and do another flush with cleaner. I think its worth the $50-100 risk.

[Haitian_King]

Ok Wes. I'll call the local BG place and have them do a trans flush for me. With the cleaner.

Then if the problem persists, call the company and have Keith do the work. What should I say to the warranty company? The AAMCO tech told me to tell them that I've been maintaining the car, and if they ask, show them receipts.

[goody90q45]

I talked to this one former Infiniti Tech who runs a small shop about the transmission mounts. I no longer believe in him. He said that the transmission mount is not a problem and that the vibration is from somthing else. he says that the mounts are never a problem. I guess every Infiniti Tech isn't that great.

If you're feelng the vibration at a steady 45-50 mph and at 70-75 mph then it's the transmission mounts/exhaust hangers.

[Haitian_King]

Hmm. I'll have it checked out.

Tomorrow morning I have a trip to the BG shop planned. I'll update the situation, hopefully it gets better.

[maxnix]

1.) No mechanical exchange, but the fluid exchange was done according to the 2 minute method.

2.) No BG, I was still unclear on the use of chemical cleaners on possibly damaged transmissions. From what I could gather from the board it didn't seem like an entirely a good idea.

3.) The problems didn't seem to start until after I got the flush

1.) There is no mechanical exchange, just a dilution of the sludge you still have in there. Never read about any two minute method. A good pump on a BG machine is just under 15 minutes.

2.) You gather wrong. Like saying washing your hands if they are too dirty could lead to an infection.

3.) You never got a flush, unless you are referring to your parts, labor and money. They got flushed because you accomplished next to nothing with your LAE.

[Haitian_King]

So a pump from the BG machine isn't considered a "mechanical exchange"? I think it should, seeing as it's using a machine.

And 15 minutes for a flush? Dennis says that a trans in good condition shouldn't take more than 3.5 minutes IIRC to have the fluid cycle through. He said that the internal transmission pump moves the old fluid out, which in turn pushes clean fluid in at a constant rate. Anything longer than the specified time signals a weak AT pump.

[qship96]

I think Brian may have been drinking a little too much BG last night!

[Haitian_King]

I thought as much. I felt it wasn't a show of good taste to mention it in polite company.

Just got off the phone with the BG shop. Either this guy is an idiot, or he's an idiot. He wants to charge me 149.99 for a flush. (The total and complete robotic mechanical flush. Happy Brian?) Then he says the car has to stay for about 2 hours. WTF? I don't think it takes that long does it? If anyone can get back to me on this before 10 AM EST, please do! I don't trust this guy, he can barely speak English.

*Edit*

Well, it's 10:12 AM. I'm on my way to the shop. Wish me luck.
Modified by Haitian_King at 7:13 AM 11/9/2007

[Q45tech]

2 hours sounds about right and $150 is cheap if they do it correctly.

The process requires 15-20 minutes to hook up once the car is on the lift, then you add BG cleaner to ATF then spend 2-3 mintues in gear P, N, R, 1, 2, 3, 4, recirculating cleaner solvent with the wheels turning on the rack...........[usually run engine at 2000 rpm that's another 20 minutes, then you stop wheels and put in park.Then you change BG machine to exchange which takes 2.5-3.0 minutes or longer. Then you check level of new ATF and adjust ..........raise car back up and remove BG lines and restore to normal , lower car and recheck level and add BG conditioner check level again. Do a test drive etc fill in paper work check for leaks, fix leaks write up bill charge credit car print receipt................2hours.You have the time to put 14 quarts into BG Machine and the time to pump out 14 quarts of old and mixed ATF to the ATF storage barrels, clean the machine with a rag, roll machine back to storage area that 30 minutes alone.

Heck it takes me 1.3 hour to do my own Q

The actual fluid exchange is a tiny time activity of the process.

[maxnix]

Yeah, those BG "idiots" are just too thorough.

Good thing there are so many "smart" owners to keep them in line.

[Haitian_King]

Oh. Well then. Thanks Tech. I'm on my way to pick the car up now. Will this clear up the clutch chatter?

Yeah, those BG "idiots" are just too thorough.

Good thing there are so many "smart" owners to keep them in line.

I stand corrected. Touche Brian.

[Haitian_King]

Ok. I picked up the car and hit the highway.

The car shifts MUCH better. However, I'm still getting this awful vibration through first and parts of 3rd. I think Mike was right when he said transmission mount. I seem to get the vibration at 2250 RPM's.

I don't know how to explain it, but I'm sure that it's still not 100%. When accerlarting through first, the only thing I can use to describe it is "gravelly". It's like a sound/feeling. I can't find a way to explain it.

I wished one of you guys lived closer so I could be able to run it by you, have you drive it, and compare it to your Q's, rather than paying someone to give me wrong information.

The hiccup that existed before during 2-3 is gone now. Shifts smooth.

So, what to do now?

[maxnix]

Replace the third motor (transmission) mount and it's exhaust hangars.

When it is on the rack, inspect the other exhaust hangars for damage from salt and age. They should neither be brittle nor cracked.

Now at least you know the difference between a mechanical exchange of the fluid and a drain and fill. A few noobies (a couple of years on this board) do not. Do another in about 12K -15K and add the B&M auxiliary ATF cooler.

Have you changed your differential fluid yet? Brake fluid? PS fluid? Coolant? Use distilled water for the dilutant.
Modified by maxnix at 7:56 PM 11/9/2007

[elwesso]

honestly, i think your trans is toast... i hate to say it, but that kind of vibration under acceleration is a bad thing... Its hard to say, but if it sounds like your on a gravel road, thats not good. If it was a transmission mount, it would sound more like a massage chair, a faint, deep vibration that is more speed dependent, not throttle dependent, if that makes any sense...

[Haitian_King]

Yeah. That's terrible.

I can't tell the warranty company that my "transmission is toast" though. What should I tell them? Once I get an approved claim number, I can take the car to Keith and see what he can/wants to do.

[Q45tech]

I sure don't know any aftermarket service insurance company that will pay anything significant on a 16 year old car most stop at 7 years old and a few go to 10.

[elwesso]

have you put on an external cooler yet? I wonder if your trans cooler is clogged?

You never did answer my question if your trans is replaced? Check for the drain plug on the pan.

[Haitian_King]

Haven't gotten a chance to get under the car yet. Last time I was under there, I didn't notice a drain plug. But I think I was wrong in describing my vibration as a gravelly sound. That could have been the condition of the street I was on. Driving to work today was FUN! The car actually threw me back in the seat off a red light start. Everything shifts smoothly.

I'm still getting the vibration but I think that's the fault of the mounts. I'm going to buy the mounts and have my mechanic do it. Or is that a Q tech kind of job? You can't really mess up the mounts right? Shucks, if he lets me use his lift/tools, I'll do the mounts myself. $160 from Joe right?

I'm going to renew my warranty in January. I'd rather have it and not use it than need it and not have it.