Climate controlled seat...

[M45Runner]

I have a 2006 M45 and I understand that the heated/cooled seats are weak for the M. But, my questions is: when you turn them on at full blast (high setting), what section of the seat it will cool / heat.

On the bottom portion, the seat has 3 sections (left back, right back and front), should it cool/heat left back and right back section but not the front section?

Also, for the back of the seat, should it cool/heat the whole area with ventilated leather or just the very bottom 1/2 foot of the ventilated leather (for the back of the seat)?

The reason I am asking this is because on mine, it only cool/heat the bottom 1/2 foot on the back of the seat and center of the bottom of the seat (in between the left back and right back section on the bottom of the seat - maybe extend 3 inches on each side, but not the whole area). Is this normal?

[M45Runner]

Also, where can I buy the seat filters online - tried http://www.everythinginfiniti.com and can not find it there....

[M45Runner]

Come on guys, someone must use the climate controlled seat, right?

And, I would assume someone know where to buy the filters maybe.....

[EniGmA1987]

Don't know on filters. But my seat is the same way. Basically just under the center of the seat gets cooled. I put some seat covers on and it takes 3x as long now to start getting cool.

[M45Runner]

Ok, today I send my car in to have the climate controlled seats checked to make sure they are performing as they are supposed to.

While at the dealership, I went to the parts department and asked the guy how much the seat filter cost and the tiny filter cost $74 per piece - I am not sure what Infiniti is thinking. For $74, I can have someone remove the filter material and have something new re-installed for both filter easy.

[bigp100]

ya, they are s***ty. In mine its almost like it blows between the bottom and top half of the seat. The upper back and lower a** areas do not receive proper cooling. On the other hand, the heat on my seats works great. My friends have taken a liking to switching each others seat to hot when the others not paying attention. Granted i have no other use for them b/c I'm in Fla and its 80 degrees at night. typical

[SteveTheTech]

The seats are interesting. They use a reversible charge plate to create or remove heat and a fan to direct air through the cushion.

They are meant to cool not be cold. The fan is fairly strong but in order to stay quite it is only so powerful and it has to direct air though the cushion material and the small channels that were designed into the cushions.

The 06-08 model uses tubing to direct the airflow. If the seat feels like the cool air is coming out from the space between the two halves the ducting may be disconnected. It is a pretty simple system and rarely brakes although airflow might not feel too strong sometimes.

[M45Runner]

Thank you for the information. That is exactly what I am looking for I believe it might not be strong and feel cold, but it should be fairly evenly distributed, at least on the seat bottom.

The car is at the dealership right now. I will definitely use this information to negotiate with the dealer tech. and have it fixed.

Another question though: Has anyone replaced the seat filter yet?

[SteveTheTech]

I have done a few to resolve some seat airflow complaints with mixed results. In all honesty there is not much that can be done if both front seats are outputting the same temperature. There really is not a way to measure the volume of air coming out of the seats. They can check the functionallity of the seat back air operation by removing the trim panel but the seat bottom is another issue.

I would suggest to anyone with this issue the following test.

Park the car in the shade long enough to cool the interior. I leave them in the shop with the windows open for an hour or so. Start the car leave the AC off and move to the passenger seat. Turn the seat to full cool and tune the radio to something good. Give it five or so minutes and see if you feel it working. Compare the two sides in the same conditions. If you have a digital pyrometer this works well for this test, I use a temperature probe on my multimeter with a min/max setting to measure temperature drop.

Another test is to leave the engine off key switch in the ON position with the windows down in the shade turn both seats to max cold and let it get up to full operation and place your forearm or back hand against the cushion to see if you can feel the air coming out. Once the seat is cool you may want to try to turn it to full hot too see what the transition feels like. Since both functions share the same components if one works the other has to. The basic science behind the charged plate design dictates that. Nothing changes except for the direction of the current.

The filters may play a role in air flow but the thread count is similar to the incabin filter but it's air volume is significantly less. Many people never change them and unless you smoke in the car than maybe replacing them at 60ish or as needed would be best. You can pull them out and visually inspect them is you are curious.

[FC_NoVA]

The 06-08 model uses tubing to direct the airflow. If the seat feels like the cool air is coming out from the space between the two halves the ducting may be disconnected. It is a pretty simple system and rarely brakes although airflow might not feel too strong sometimes.

Steve, can I check the ducting without taking the seats out of the car? Mine definitely feels like cold air is blowing out from between the seat bottom and seat back. If it is a simple fix, I'll just take care of it myself instead of taking the car to the dealer for a 5 minutes fix.

BTW, thanks again for taking care of my car when it came into your shop!

FC

[SteveTheTech]

4.a: Seat cushion thermal electricdevice b: Climate controlled seat controlunit c: Climate controlled seat blowermotor

5.Seat back thermal electric device

System DescriptionThe climate controlled seat system is controlled by climate controlled seat control unit.Heating and cooling are possible for a thermal electric device (heat conversion machine).NOTE: The climate controlled seat system is downed when the temperature sensor set as the seat cushion and the seat back's thermal electric device machine detects 20 °C (68 °F)or more of mutual differences of temperature. In this case, by turning off ignition switch, system down is canceled and it can be reused by turning on ignition switch again. The climate controlled seat blower keep low speed for approximately 60 seconds after turning the climate controlled seat switch.CAUTION: The thermal electric device has the character in which, as for an opposite side. one side becomes high temperature at the time of low temperature.

The air is sped up at the motor and directed at ambient temperature to the thermal device in either the cushion or seat back. If the flexible ducting is damaged it is possible that an air leak will be felt.

Here is a a quick break down of where things are in the seat. You will need to remove the trim and the cover that will break on you 99.5% of the time, or the little tab( on the inside of the lower cover you can sort of see in #5 directly below the arrow) will bend and not sit straight. If you do this yourself pay close attention to the amount of pressure you apply to the sides when trying to remove the lower cover.

If you are in the area stop by and I will take a look at it. At least if I break something I will replace it.

[EniGmA1987]

oh that explains a lot. I always thought it just pulled air from the main cooling ducts thats why my air conditioner pressure drops when I turn the steas on. But I guess it is probably because of the power requirements to run the TECs, it cant run at max output on the main air compressor at the same time.

Do you happen to know the power ratings of the TECs? I would bet it is something really tiny...

And would it be possible to replace the units with another that is the same size but higher power usage? Thus providing greater high/low temperatures...

[EcstaSPT]

I'll just make a seat filter from an extra home AC filter I have, it's big enough to last me for awhile.

But I'm interested in increasing the fan output also. I've thought about opening up the seat to look at how the airflow is distributed but haven't gotten around to it.

[M45Runner]

As you may know, I took the car to the dealership to have the seats looked at - they did all sort of testing and said that the climate control system in the seats are function properly.

They claim that most of the air SHOULD come from the lower back and the middle of the seat - although you might feel a little bit on the outside of the seat cushion area if you run it at high. I guess the seat bottom is OK, but, for the seat back, it is just a poor design - your body barely (if any) touch the lower area, while the middle/upper area need ventilation the most. Why can't they put the ventilation there instead?

[SteveTheTech]

Do you happen to know the power ratings of the TECs? I would bet it is something really tiny...

I really don't know but the TEC doesn't require much power to operate and is much simpler than the conventional heat and AC systems that are installed on all of our cars. Someday in the not so distant future this type of technology will be the main climate control device. The plate uses reverse current to output warm or cool air, so the overall size of the heater box would need to be much smaller and would require less parasitic draw on the engine.

The seat TECs can't pull more than 15amps and I am sure that it only draws a fraction of that.

I'll just make a seat filter from an extra home AC filter I have, it's big enough to last me for awhile.

But I'm interested in increasing the fan output also. I've thought about opening up the seat to look at how the airflow is distributed but haven't gotten around to it.

If you get one of the 3M filtrete filters and modify it to fit. They range from $75 to $110/ea and are not at all worth it.

Now increasing airflow may be possible but I do not think it would be safe to increase the current to the TEC. The parts are so expensive I cannot sacrifice one for testing until I happen upon one. The entire circuit may need to be rewired using larger gauge wires and circuit protection devices to make this work correctly. Although that is something that will need to be tested, and now I am just dreaming big.

As you may know, I took the car to the dealership to have the seats looked at - they did all sort of testing and said that the climate control system in the seats are function properly.

They claim that most of the air SHOULD come from the lower back and the middle of the seat - although you might feel a little bit on the outside of the seat cushion area if you run it at high. I guess the seat bottom is OK, but, for the seat back, it is just a poor design - your body barely (if any) touch the lower area, while the middle/upper area need ventilation the most. Why can't they put the ventilation there instead?

It is not surprising that the end result would be normal operation. I am wondering what color interior do you have?

The system is only meant to output a small amount of heated/cooled air through the seat cushions. The system is not going to blow a large amount of air but after some time it will drop the temperature of the seating surfaces a noticeable amount. If you look at the picture I posted above of the seat back TEC and the ducting that routes air through it you see the small box and after the box the air is directed through a fabric channel inside the back of the seat which permeates air through the leather surfaces. Air flow through something like this will act like electricity seeking the easiest path to ground and if there is an easy way out it will take it.

Although not much of a consolation at least you have air conditioned seats. It's still better than the scalding seats of almost all other cars on the market.

[EniGmA1987]

I would imagine the seats use a 30w TEC then. I may know of a place to get some, but sine it would be expensive to test on my main car I think I will hold off. If the system ever breaks then ill look into getting a 45w model to test out.

[EcstaSPT]

Do you have any acutal photos of the ducting and holes through the seats from the bottom? Is there not a way to maybe enlarge the holes and / or ducting tubes to make it easier for the air to permeate through the seat?

[EniGmA1987]

larger ducts would give decreased air pressure from the fan though. You would/will need to upgrade the fan with the ducts.

[EniGmA1987]

Hey steve, if you happen to have a seat out could you measure the size of the TEC unit in the seats?

this would be how they are measured:

From what I can figure, the TEC units are most probably 30w units. I cant hear a change in fan speed when changing power levels to the device, so most likely to get the different levels it undervolts the TEC unit when not at max setting. But max would probably be 30w.

If anyone is interested, this is a reliable company that has a large selection of TEC units:

http://www.customthermoelectri....htmlhttp://www.customthermoelectric.com/

[aiham78]

For anyone looking for the circular shaped car seat filter, this is the cheapest replacement: Motorcraft FS-104 for $22 at Amazon

If you need the square one: look for NPN Cabin Air Filter part# W0133-1894994