Citgo SUCKS

[Jesda]

GM, Citgo turn up often in injector issueAnalysis finds trends in troubled vehiclesRAQUEL RUTLEDGEDec. 26, 2004The Journal Sentinel

MILWAUKEE - Larry Tredrea cringed when his mechanic told him in September his 1998 Buick Century needed six new fuel injectors. The idea of sinking $1,500 into a well-maintained car with 76,000 miles on it angered the Grafton man. A week later, his wife walked in the door with more disturbing news.

"She said, 'Guess what? The check engine light came on in the Malibu,' " Tredrea said. "I said, 'Oh no.' "

Two more injectors. Another $500. The 1999 Chevrolet Malibu had just 30,000 miles on it.

"It's pretty discouraging," Tredrea said. "You figure you've got a great car. I can't afford to keep replacing these things every couple thousand miles. What's the guarantee it's not going to happen again?"

Tredrea and hundreds of other Milwaukee-area motorists have reported similar problems in recent months. And while a state investigation has yielded no answers as to what may be fouling fuel injectors in the region, an analysis by the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel shows some trends.

For starters, General Motors vehicles make up the vast bulk of the problems.

Second, more than 40% of the drivers experiencing problems said they purchase their gas at Citgo stations.

Nearly half the troubled cars had fewer than 70,000 miles and more than 80% were 1996 or newer models.

And the average cost of repairing the problem was nearly $600.

The analysis is not scientific but stems from information provided by 298 motorists in the five-county metro area who have had fuel injector problems in 2004 and who completed an online survey conducted by the Journal Sentinel.

Of those who responded, nearly 75% owned a vehicle manufactured by General Motors. Chevy, Buick, Pontiac and Oldsmobile topped the list of makes with the most faulty fuel injectors. Honda and Ford ranked a distant second and third with 7% and 6% of reported problems, respectively.

General Motors is investigating. The manufacturer accounts for about 28% of all vehicles on the road nationwide and slightly more in the Midwest, said spokesman Tom Henderson. GM's early findings suggest something in the fuel may have caused various GM injectors to stick and the problem seemed to be linked to one brand of fuel. GM officials wouldn't name the substance in the fuel or the brand of gasoline because the results were preliminary.

Auto mechanics began reporting a spike in injector problems in September, as the area switched to its winter blend of fuel and just as the state Department of Commerce began tapering its testing at the terminals. Since October, more than 700 motorists have complained to the department about faulty fuel injectors.

The Journal Sentinel's analysis also shows that 44% of respondents regularly purchase gas from Citgo stations. The Citgo brand makes up about 30% of the roughly 1,000 service stations in Milwaukee, Waukesha, Racine, Kenosha, Ozaukee and Washington counties, said company spokesman David McCollum.

Citgo denies any problems with fuel in Milwaukee. McCollum said the company is cooperating with GM's investigators to get to the source of the troubles. He said all Citgo fuels meet or exceed the EPA standards for detergency. He would not specify how each grade of the company's gasoline stacked up against EPA standards.

"Gas is gas, but gas is not gas," Jim Colucci, Automotive fuel expert & former longtime fuel specialist with GM said. "There are some major differences in dosages (of detergents). People buy gas based on price, but when you've already spent $20,000 or $30,000 on a vehicle, that you worry about 2 or 3 cents a gallon doesn't make sense. It's penny-wise and pound foolish."

Jackie Cyliax wondered what was happening under the hood of her 2001 Honda CRV in November when it started sputtering and shaking. Mechanics at two different shops asked her if she was buying dirty gas. The first mechanic cleaned one injector and thought the problem was solved. But about a week later, the shaking and chugging reappeared and Cyliax had her car - with 29,000 miles on it - towed to Schlossmann's Honda City. Service workers there recommended she replace all four injectors. Cyliax followed the advice and spent nearly $900. Her warranty had expired three months earlier.

Full Article: http://www.jsonline.com/news/m...6.asp

[squeefoo]

If only you were able to listen to the local radio talk show hosts; the paper only covered 1/3 of the story in order to protect the precious ethanol lobby and the unionized bureaucrats in the Dept. of Commerce. There have been far more injector deaths than reported, they missed the statement by the guy who had gas/ethanol samples tested to 20% - 30% of volume!

The state is "broke" so they can't afford to test the gas coming in, but taxes went up again this year.Tommy Thompson (the former Governor and your HHS Secretary) is a total POS RINO. May he wither in ignominity!

[Jesda]

I like his brother though.

[squeefoo]

I had one of his bumper stickers in the back window, 'cuz I just can never bring myself to glue 'em on. Especially the Q! Poor guy never had a chance with the municipal and state unions throwing taxes around like it was somebody elses.

Real glad I live far enough out so I can buy "good gas" 14 miles away, and don't have to worry about emission tests as long as I own it.

PS: I have an original "Barry Goldwater for President" bumper sticker from '64... Mint.

Cost ? Priceless

[vicQ45]

so far since i've owned my q i have only put one tank of non-chevron 93 gas and it was shell v-power... cheap gas is for losers grocery store gas can bite me. i must confess to putting Sam's club 87 gas in my old maxima, but that was my first car...come on

[texasoil]

To meet the 'EPA Standard' detergency is ridiculously easy. The 'emission certification fuel' the car makers use for EPA certification has 5 times more detergent and is a much higher quality base fuel. Gasolines that ADVERTIZE 'Drive Clean" or "Clean-up' performance HAVE lots more detergents and HAVE demonstrated their clean up performance is a demandig standardized engine test. When states allow 'splash blending' of ethanol on top of plain vanilla (cheap sfutt) gasoline base, adding10-20% ethanol results in a deposit forming fuel with even lower detergency than the base fuel. Lets see--$0.04/gal cheaper, figure 6000 gal/100,000 miles (16.5MPG)--that's a whopping $240 SAVED in gasoline costs. But now you have to run injector cleaner every other tank to keep it running ($4) ,so thats $0.10/gal of gasoline if you fillup with 20 gal each time, AND fuel mileage will be down at least 1.5 MPG to 15, so fuel cost is now on 6700gal + the injector cleaner--so your CHEAP GAS costs you $0.18/gal fuel economy, +$0.10/gal for fuel injector cleaner, or $0.28 a gal in addition to the pump price. So the 3-4 cents/gal you 'save' up front really COST you $0.25 a gal MORE than really good stuff that doesn't ever need injector cleaner. AND your engine lasts lots longer and runs lots smoother (and pollutes a lot less)

[Q45tech]

Tell us what you know of the QT premium grades [what if anything they add to-----additive package] fungible gasoline.............top tier bunk? Compared to what.

[PoorManQ45]

MILWAUKEE - Larry Tredrea cringed when his mechanic told him in September his 1998 Buick Century needed six new fuel injectors. The idea of sinking $1,500 into a well-maintained car with 76,000 miles on it angered the Grafton man. A week later, his wife walked in the door with more disturbing news.

Two more injectors. Another $500. The 1999 Chevrolet Malibu had just 30,000 miles on it.

And the average cost of repairing the problem was nearly $600.

Jackie Cyliax wondered what was happening under the hood of her 2001 Honda CRV in November when it started sputtering and shaking. Mechanics at two different shops asked her if she was buying dirty gas. The first mechanic cleaned one injector and thought the problem was solved. But about a week later, the shaking and chugging reappeared and Cyliax had her car - with 29,000 miles on it - towed to Schlossmann's Honda City. Service workers there recommended she replace all four injectors. Cyliax followed the advice and spent nearly $900. Her warranty had expired three months earlier.

Note that I bolded the prices.

These people obviously have more money then sense. $500 for 2 injectors on a Malibu! That is completely insane. They probably cost like $50 a piece . People should really stop listening to mechanics.

Mechanics look at you and see $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$