Chicago reaches 500 homicides...

A place for intelligent and well-thought-out discussion involving politics and associated topics. No nonsense will be tolerated at all.
User avatar
ImStricken06
Posts: 4511
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:45 am
Car: 2008 Nissan Rogue (sold)
2013 Hyundai Santa Fe
2016 Kia Sorento
Location: Within Range
Contact:

Post

CHICAGO (AP) — Chicago has logged its 500th homicide of 2012.

The last time the city reached the 500-homicide mark was in 2008, when the year ended with 512 killings. Last year, city records show Chicago had 435 homicides.

On Thursday, officials with the Chicago Police Department said the city was one homicide away from the 500 mark. Hours later, a 40-year-old man was fatally shot in the Austin neighborhood on the city's West Side. Police say Nathaniel Jackson was found on the sidewalk outside a convenience store with a gunshot wound to the head late Thursday.

The Cook County Medical Examiner's Office says Jackson was pronounced dead at Stroger Hospital early Friday.

Jackson's death remains under investigation. No arrests have been made.

http://news.yahoo.com/chicago-reaches-5 ... 51769.html
How does this happen in a city that banned guns? :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:


User avatar
Ace2cool
Posts: 11650
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:21 pm
Car: 1991 Nissan 300ZX TT
1966 Datsun Fairlady 1600
2005 Suzuki GSX-R 600
1974 Honda CB550 Four
2009 Ford F150 Lariat
Location: Murfreesboro, TN

Post

Image

Sorry to make light of the subject, but this is the biggest argument to any gun control law. It's. Not. Working. Criminals don't care what laws are in place, they seek to do whatever they wish regardless of the laws in place.

User avatar
ImStricken06
Posts: 4511
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:45 am
Car: 2008 Nissan Rogue (sold)
2013 Hyundai Santa Fe
2016 Kia Sorento
Location: Within Range
Contact:

Post

Ace2cool wrote:Sorry to make light of the subject, but this is the biggest argument to any gun control law. It's. Not. Working. Criminals don't care what laws are in place, they seek to do whatever they wish regardless of the laws in place.
agreed.

the point i want to add to your comment, is when liberals state: "if no one had guns, ever- this wouldn't be happening. everyone should be forced to turn in their guns like in Australia."
  • News flash: we have tons of drugs being smuggled into the USA every week, what says they wont smuggle in weapons as well?(especially when the Obama administration just gave them a piss-load and lost track)?? guns will cost thousands of dollars due to the high demand and expensive process to get them in here, but when gangs net 100,000 per month in drug sales = they can and will afford it, and will continue to kill people at the same rate we have now.

User avatar
WDRacing
Moderator
Posts: 15983
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2002 2:00 am
Car: 95 240SX, 99 BMW 540i, 01 Chevy Express, 14 Ford Escape
Location: MFFO
Contact:

Post

Once the anti-gun types get past the fact that America is NEVER going to turn in all of it's guns, things become pretty clear. Gun control not only doesn't stop violent crimes committed with guns, it isn't even the problem. I get so sick of hearing BS like, "what do you need more than one gun for?" or "why do you need an assault weapon?" My answer is simple, cause I fvcking like guns now get the f*** out of my business before I take my completely legal 5 iron and cave in the side of your skull with it.

User avatar
biggie
Moderator
Posts: 8302
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2002 2:31 am
Car: '16 Q70L/'14 Q60S Vert/'19 Armada/'09 FX35
Location: Clemmons, NC

Post

So its happened in 2008 and 2012...hmmm.

User avatar
ImStricken06
Posts: 4511
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:45 am
Car: 2008 Nissan Rogue (sold)
2013 Hyundai Santa Fe
2016 Kia Sorento
Location: Within Range
Contact:

Post

WDRacing wrote: I get so sick of hearing BS like, "what do you need more than one gun for?" or "why do you need an assault weapon?" My answer is simple, cause I fvcking like guns now get the f*** out of my business before I take my completely legal 5 iron and cave in the side of your skull with it.
my answer is even more simple: "because when i justifiably have to shoot some low-life dirtball crawling about my house- the cops are going to take away my firearm for forensic testing = LEAVING ME UNARMED, WHEN THE "HOME-BOYZ" COME AROUND TO RETALIATE FOR KILLING THEIR "BOTHA." ...... you should see the empty, blank stare i get lol

User avatar
Bubba1
Moderator
Posts: 16083
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 1:42 pm
Car: 2003 Nissan 350z
2024 Honda HR-V
2008 Toyota Corolla S
2001 Toyota Avalon XLS

Post

WDRacing wrote: I get so sick of hearing BS like, "what do you need more than one gun for?" or "why do you need an assault weapon?" My answer is simple, cause I fvcking like guns now get the f*** out of my business before I take my completely legal 5 iron and cave in the side of your skull with it.
Followed immediately by your arrest for aggravated manslaughter. :biggrin:

I think the problem with holding such a strong stance on either side of the issue is that the other side is not going to go away. I don't see much movement on either side. Instead of the "pry-my-gun-from-cold-dead-hands" rhetoric, and we all know gun ownership will not go away given the number of gun owners out there, perhaps it's time to talk about that dreaded C word. No, not that one, but "Compromise."

User avatar
ImStricken06
Posts: 4511
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:45 am
Car: 2008 Nissan Rogue (sold)
2013 Hyundai Santa Fe
2016 Kia Sorento
Location: Within Range
Contact:

Post

Bubba1 wrote:Instead of the "pry-my-gun-from-cold-dead-hands" rhetoric, and we all know gun ownership will not go away given the number of gun owners out there, perhaps it's time to talk about that dreaded C word. No, not that one, but "Compromise."
compromise? wtf is there to compromise about? we've had guns for hundreds of years. kids used to bring rifles to schools for rifle clubs & boy scouts, etc = and never the issues we face now. why do you suppose we face such problems now?- because guns got fancier?

you want to find fault, and compromise with someone?
1. compromise with the looser parents who don't want to handle their responsibility and put their kids on prescription drugs whenever Lil' Timmy has a tad to much sugar and is hyper.
2. compromise with the ghetto "inner city urban" people to quit the violence that plagues our communities. and dont tell me you dont see the communities im speaking about. its the same filth you avoided when house shopping... you know, the filth liberals protect.
3. compromise with the left-wingers who pay young women to have unwanted kids(welfare).
4. compromise with the left who support violent music as some "freedom of expression".

do you really think violence will go away once guns are gone? do you think violence will decrease if guns are pink, and shoot plastic pellets? they will simply be smuggled across the boarder along with all the drugs. guns were never the problem, and never will be gone. deal with it. WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT WHY WE HAVE SO MANY CRAZY IDIOTS IN SOCIETY THAT THINK ITS OK TO KILL!!!!(guns are not their only option for murder)

User avatar
themadscientist
Posts: 26254
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 3:30 pm
Car: R32 GTR, DR30 RS Turbo, BRZ, Lunchbox, NSR50 Sportster 883 Iron
Location: Staring down at you with disdain from the spooky mountaintop castle.

Post

Let's go on offense. i know the opposition will appreciate the tactics.

Image

User avatar
Bubba1
Moderator
Posts: 16083
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 1:42 pm
Car: 2003 Nissan 350z
2024 Honda HR-V
2008 Toyota Corolla S
2001 Toyota Avalon XLS

Post

ImStricken wrote:[. WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT WHY WE HAVE SO MANY CRAZY IDIOTS IN SOCIETY THAT THINK ITS OK TO KILL!!!!(guns are not their only option for murder)
Right, that's the problem. But the answer is not blaming liberals or more guns. The answer is also not eliminating guns (which we know is not going to happen anyway). Until both sides stop posturing and work together to find some kinda workable solutions, nothing will get accomplished.

User avatar
WDRacing
Moderator
Posts: 15983
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2002 2:00 am
Car: 95 240SX, 99 BMW 540i, 01 Chevy Express, 14 Ford Escape
Location: MFFO
Contact:

Post

There is no need to work together. What do we gain from working together? What do we gain from limiting what I can purchase? Does limiting what I can do stop gun violence? No. So why should I surrender anything?

Find the problem, fix the problem.

The problem is mental people. Fix THAT problem. Just because it's a diverse topic and presents major hurdles doesn't mean we simply settle for something that makes others feel good. The assault weapons ban does nothing but limit what law abiding citizens can do...that's it.

User avatar
themadscientist
Posts: 26254
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 3:30 pm
Car: R32 GTR, DR30 RS Turbo, BRZ, Lunchbox, NSR50 Sportster 883 Iron
Location: Staring down at you with disdain from the spooky mountaintop castle.

Post

I'm done being "the bigger man." The drivers behind gun control are not interested in an equilibrium. Their goal is total abolition and any ground ceded to them is just a step to the next one. The line is drawn, no more negotiation.

Image

User avatar
BusyBadger
Posts: 3753
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:20 pm
Car: '92 Nissan 240SX
'05 Nissan 350Z
'13 Nissan Juke
Contact:

Post

Nice pic choice...very appropriate, in more ways than one.

User avatar
ImStricken06
Posts: 4511
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:45 am
Car: 2008 Nissan Rogue (sold)
2013 Hyundai Santa Fe
2016 Kia Sorento
Location: Within Range
Contact:

Post

Bubba1 wrote:But the answer is not blaming liberals or more guns.
hey pall, you and your fellow leftists want "compromise" from the gun community? what kind of "compromise"? the type of compromise that goes like this: "we will let you have "A" if you give up "B"? Thats pure horse sh*t and you know it!

QUESTION: do you know why most people own guns?
ANSWER: because of self defense. yes, many hunt, and many enjoy target practice, but the reality of things is that most buy guns for self defense.

another QUESTION: who historically has fought for the rights of convicted felons, convicts, parolee's, those on probation, and those found guilty of crimes?
another ANSWER: LIBERALS. its liberals that have successfully fought for the rights of those people. and since recidivism is a serious problem amongst those people, there is your answer why people feel scared enough to have to own and carry guns. people are not arming themselves from terrorists, or aliens. they are arming themselves from the people that liberals feel bad for: CRIMINALS, THUGS, "INNER CITY YOUTH", and ILLEGALS.

so now back to that "compromise" you wanted: SO WHAT ARE LIBERALS GONNA DO, ON THEIR END OF THE DEAL, IN ORDER FOR THE GUN-FOLKS TO GIVE UP ON SOMETHING FROM THEIR END OF THE DEAL? AFTER ALL THAT IS WHAT COMPROMISE IS ALL ABOUT RIGHT? YOU GIVE, I GIVE. Unless the bleeding heart liberals of America are ready to impose life terms for all murderers/sex-offenders/child molesters/rapists/etc = dont hold your breath on any "compromise" from those arming themselves to protect themselves form the very people, LIBERALS protect.

so yes, liberals are in fact to blame why so many people feel compelled to arm themselves. its liberals who have fought for 2nd chances and lax punishments to be imposed for serious crimes. its liberals who push people to buy guns(that end up being stolen). so if you want to see less guns and less reasons to own guns = be ready to quit bleeding so damn much for the sh*tbags of our society. :mike

User avatar
themadscientist
Posts: 26254
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 3:30 pm
Car: R32 GTR, DR30 RS Turbo, BRZ, Lunchbox, NSR50 Sportster 883 Iron
Location: Staring down at you with disdain from the spooky mountaintop castle.

Post

Bout sums it up.
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/201 ... truth.html
But, Journal News, as with the New York Post not two weeks ago, we can see beneath your gun-hater's hood. You say that all you want is the criminalization of high-capacity magazines and semi-automatic rifles with a military appearance. And this is true in a sense. You situational-values-set statists live in the moment, and such legislation is all you want right now because it's all you can get right now. But you're masters of incrementalism; you say you only want an inch until you can get a foot, and then you say you only want a foot until you can get the shoe. What I'd give you is the boot.

This is because I know that liberals remain satisfied with compromises until about the time the ink dries. They ultimately will never settle for half a loaf -- and they want all our guns. We should only give them all our undying contempt.

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/201 ... z2GPckmvlQ
Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook

User avatar
AZhitman
Administrator
Posts: 54545
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2002 2:04 am
Car: 58 L210, 63 Bluebird RHD, 64 NL320, 65 SPL310, 66 411 RHD, 67 WRL411, 68 510 SR20, 75 280Z RB25, 77 620 SR20, 79 B310, 90 Z32, 91 GTi-R, 92 Silvia Qs, 98 S14, 23 Z.
Location: Surprise, Arizona
Contact:

Post

As a Libertarian and someone who doesn't really have a dog in this fight, here's my position:

There's lots of talk about "compromise" and "we need to change". However, WORDS MEAN THINGS. So, to that end, let's see some realistic, workable proposals. So far, nothing from the Left. Nothing from Progressives. Nothing.

Ideas are dandy. But without a plan for implementation, and a review of the implications of implementing said policies, it's a fart in a whirlwind.

(With that said, I think it would be wise of the NRA to extend a small olive branch - Fine, no more 30-capacity magazines. Whatever. It would be a small gesture that would take the tone down a notch.)

MORE importantly, the gun lobby needs to come at this from a position of confidence and calm... Freaking out is stupid. It's kind of like the womens' groups who tripped the F out on Romney in the '12 campaign about abortion - Do those idiots HONESTLY think the POTUS could singlehandedly outlaw abortion? Freakin' THINK, people.

The 2nd Amendment isn't going away. This is the time for gun enthusiasts (and all who believe in the Constitution) to sit back, fold your arms across your chest, quit yelling, and LISTEN. Trust me, there won't be any solutions coming from the Left, so why freak out? Just calmly point out the flaws in their "proposals" with facts / statistics / research / empirical evidence and let them blow snot bubbles in frustration.

I recommend a big map of Chicago, with red dots on each homicide... next to a big map of Phoenix, with red dots on each homicide. Adjust for population density, adjust for altitude, adjust for temperature, adjust for race, income, education, Hell, IDGAF - adjust for pigeon population and the number of vending machines... See, it won't matter - The statistics don't lie.

The onus is on the anti-gun lobby to come up with a solution, so chill.

User avatar
WDRacing
Moderator
Posts: 15983
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2002 2:00 am
Car: 95 240SX, 99 BMW 540i, 01 Chevy Express, 14 Ford Escape
Location: MFFO
Contact:

Post

AZhitman wrote: The onus is on the anti-gun lobby to come up with a solution, so chill.
I don't do "chill"...I leave chill to you bud.

User avatar
Bubba1
Moderator
Posts: 16083
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 1:42 pm
Car: 2003 Nissan 350z
2024 Honda HR-V
2008 Toyota Corolla S
2001 Toyota Avalon XLS

Post

Thing is there are solutions out there, and several have been suggested. Problem is they are usually dismissed as neither extreme wants to give an inch. And that disappoints those in the middle like me. FWIW, Guns are not the only topic where people are prone to posture/freak out instead of listen/work together. Heck, just look at the fiscal cliff negotiations in Congress.

Back to homicides. Trenton, NJ had a similar spike in murders a few years ago. How did they solve it? Not by attacking gun owner rights. Not by blaming liberals for everything. What happened will make Greg grin. The city police mapped out the areas where most of the gun crimes occurred. A local/state police/FBI task force was then formed, and they concentrated their efforts in those areas. Within a few short months, dozens of baddies, including many gangbangers were arrested and in turn they ratted out their leaders who got sent to prison. The murder rate went down quickly. Amazing what can get done when people listen and work together.

User avatar
WDRacing
Moderator
Posts: 15983
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2002 2:00 am
Car: 95 240SX, 99 BMW 540i, 01 Chevy Express, 14 Ford Escape
Location: MFFO
Contact:

Post

I don't rail against solutions, I rail against solutions that involve losing individual freedoms when the end result has no effect on the problem. I'm not extreme at all, I'm just not going to agree with anything that involves taking something away from me for no good reason. 30 round magazines? Yeah...they're the problem all right.

What are the 2 main problems? To me they are...

1, How do we help the mentally ill? Is it even possible?

2, How do we make our children safer?

For me personally, I don't see an answer to problem #1. It relies heavily on individual accountability, something our country sucks at these days. It all starts on the home front, something I can't control. However, I can control my ability to defend myself against such heinous acts by preparing myself as much as I can.

Making my children safer is also simple imho. Armed security at schools. Arguing against that is foolish, why? Because it's THE ONLY possible solution. Nothing else will work. Whether you agree with it or not, that doesn't change the facts.

I don't blame Liberals, but it just happens to be Liberals that want to take away my guns. So yeah...kinda hard not to have animosity towards them.

The fiscal cliff is also a Liberal problem. If you can't stop spending, you can't balance the budget. Why would my side ever agree to raise taxes only to have an irresponsible Gov just blow the revenue? They shouldn't. Obama and his team can all rejoice in their utter failure. Or success I suppose, depending on what side of the aisle you're on and if you're goals are to turn America into Europe.

User avatar
ImStricken06
Posts: 4511
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:45 am
Car: 2008 Nissan Rogue (sold)
2013 Hyundai Santa Fe
2016 Kia Sorento
Location: Within Range
Contact:

Post

what's sad is, that we(as a collective whole) could come up with so many solutions: armed professional guards & part-time cops in schools, full-time cops visiting more schools throughout the day, changing around how mall managements see how guards should look and behave like, assign national guard soldiers to certain patrol duties: high-crime ghetto area's, water plants, malls, etc(you know, the way life is in every other country. soldiers patrol cities and high-traffic area's every day) and the liberals would still rebuff the ideas. it would still not be good enough for them. why you ask? because they want the complete abolition of citizenry owning guns. and that's why no compromise will be ever accomplished. they don't want compromise, they want abolition.

well, like i said before: "if liberals want compromise, then be ready to hear our demands in exchange for high-cap mags & assault rifles. our demands will be somewhere in the neighborhood of: no parole-life-term sentences for all murderers/sex-offenders/child molesters/rapists. be ready to hear that we want 20year sentences for all robbery's, home invasions, burglaries, illegal discharge of firearms, possession of stolen or defaced firearms, etc. be ready to give us reasons NOT to want to buy, own, or carry guns."

User avatar
Bubba1
Moderator
Posts: 16083
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 1:42 pm
Car: 2003 Nissan 350z
2024 Honda HR-V
2008 Toyota Corolla S
2001 Toyota Avalon XLS

Post

WDRacing wrote: What are the 2 main problems? To me they are...

1, How do we help the mentally ill? Is it even possible?

2, How do we make our children safer?

For me personally, I don't see an answer to problem #1. It relies heavily on individual accountability, something our country sucks at these days. It all starts on the home front, something I can't control. However, I can control my ability to defend myself against such heinous acts by preparing myself as much as I can.

Making my children safer is also simple imho. Armed security at schools. Arguing against that is foolish, why? Because it's THE ONLY possible solution. Nothing else will work. Whether you agree with it or not, that doesn't change the facts.

I don't blame Liberals, but it just happens to be Liberals that want to take away my guns. So yeah...kinda hard not to have animosity towards them.

The fiscal cliff is also a Liberal problem. If you can't stop spending, you can't balance the budget. Why would my side ever agree to raise taxes only to have an irresponsible Gov just blow the revenue? They shouldn't. Obama and his team can all rejoice in their utter failure. Or success I suppose, depending on what side of the aisle you're on and if you're goals are to turn America into Europe.

There's a lot here. I'll touch on a few of the issues.

Armed guards are not necessarily a bad idea, especially at schools with a history of violence, (which is being done now), though the thought of a bunch of armed George Zimmermans being paid to look for trouble concerns me a bit. The glaring issue that is being ignored is that it is impractical. How do you pay for it? If you look around, many school districts, towns, states ain't exactly swimming in money, and eager to add more taxes to cover cost to implement such a plan. If towns are laying off teachers and cutting programs due to a lack of funds, how to you expect them to afford armed security? Also, many schools are big with many entrances, so one armed guard per school is not enough, and we're talking about well over 132,000 schools. Plus, Columbine showed that having an armed guard by themselves is not a deterrent.

As far as mnaking our schools safer, IMHO there is no one security solution to fit every school. A wiser approach would be for each district to work together with their local police to determine what combination of measures would be most effective and affordable in their budgets. I'm sure in some cases, armed guards are appropriate, but it's impractical to think they are the best cure for the problem.

Concerning the fiscal cliff being a liberal issue. Congress is made up of both liberals and conservatives. Both sides share blame for this mess, and it goes back my earlier point that both sides of the aisle prefer now to posture instead of work together. Heck, Boehner could not even get a consensus from his own party on their own fiscal cliff plan idea. That's hardly the liberals' fault. face it, Our elected representation are bums and we voters also share some of that blame because we voted to re-elect most of them expecting them to suddenly do something different.

As far as mental health, I agree with you that it's impossible to stop crazies if they're determined enough. But there are some things that could be done, like restoring federal funding for mental institutions for example. Better to have some of these crazies in institutions on meds than on the street off them. There are plenty of other ideas to discuss, the hard part is to get people from both sides to stop blaming each other, and start discussing them.

User avatar
WDRacing
Moderator
Posts: 15983
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2002 2:00 am
Car: 95 240SX, 99 BMW 540i, 01 Chevy Express, 14 Ford Escape
Location: MFFO
Contact:

Post

I agree with everything except the Liberal Cliff. Both sides may have gotten us here, but that's not the issue. The issue is that we can't reach a deal to avoid the "cliff" from happening. Why do you suppose that is? It's certainly not because my side won't negotiate. It's because the Liberals refuse to cut spending...period. We have a spending problem Joel, not a revenue problem. One side clearly wants to cut spending and one side does not. When you have over 16 trillion in debt, the side that doesn't want to cut spending is just plain wrong.

The fact that Boehner can't get a Liberal plan to pass IS his fault. A 1:1 revenue increase/spending cut plan is no plan at all.

By this time next year we'll be paying over 400,000,000,000 annually in interest payments on our debt. I'm on the side that wants to cut spending. It's the only side we should ALL be on. This BS tax increase doesn't fund anything...it's a distraction. Obama and his crew are inept.

User avatar
themadscientist
Posts: 26254
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 3:30 pm
Car: R32 GTR, DR30 RS Turbo, BRZ, Lunchbox, NSR50 Sportster 883 Iron
Location: Staring down at you with disdain from the spooky mountaintop castle.

Post

http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAy ... es-part-i/
If you’re reading this, you’ve probably had a conversation with someone in the last few days who asked, “Why do ordinary law-abiding people need those semiautomatic firearms with magazines that can hold more than ten cartridges?” There are lots of sound answers....

User avatar
AZhitman
Administrator
Posts: 54545
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2002 2:04 am
Car: 58 L210, 63 Bluebird RHD, 64 NL320, 65 SPL310, 66 411 RHD, 67 WRL411, 68 510 SR20, 75 280Z RB25, 77 620 SR20, 79 B310, 90 Z32, 91 GTi-R, 92 Silvia Qs, 98 S14, 23 Z.
Location: Surprise, Arizona
Contact:

Post

Bubba1 wrote:The city police mapped out the areas where most of the gun crimes occurred. A local/state police/FBI task force was then formed, and they concentrated their efforts in those areas. Within a few short months, dozens of baddies, including many gangbangers were arrested and in turn they ratted out their leaders who got sent to prison. The murder rate went down quickly. Amazing what can get done when people listen and work together.
Community Policing. Works great, until you get crybaby citizens whining about being "watched" and "harassed", watchdog groups disrupting police actions, oversight committees getting in the way of good police work, and legislators getting bullied by people with money to "leave the inner-city youth alone".

If you get a chance, read "Broken Windows". Proven results, but try and get it implemented - You'd think the LE community was lobbying to raise taxes and cook kittens.

User avatar
Bubba1
Moderator
Posts: 16083
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 1:42 pm
Car: 2003 Nissan 350z
2024 Honda HR-V
2008 Toyota Corolla S
2001 Toyota Avalon XLS

Post

I'll check that out. I think the reason that Trenton operation worked was that it was sold to the residents as a short term operation with shared costs. There was no way the city could afford an operation like that on their own.


Return to “Politics Etc.”