Check Engine Light On After Service

[TrueFaith]

I've just about had it with my Nissan dealer. Nothing but bad experiences the 3 times I've brought my Coupe in for service. This last time I was due for my 11,500 mile service and my CEL came on 2 days before my appointment at 12,100 miles. Figured it came on just because I was a few hundred miles late for the service. They changed the oil and rotated the tires and were about to send me on my way when I noticed my CEL was STILL on. It was big news to them even though the mechanic had to drive it from the bay to the waiting area, apparently never noticing it was still on.
So the Service Manager comes over and says "have you filled up recently?" No, it's a 2008 with only 12,000 miles on it and with a 20-gallon tank I'm lucky if I fill up more than once a month. So he says it must be an exhaust issue and I'd have to come back for testing if it remains on. Does this sound completely incompetent to anyone else besides me? Anyone have any idea why this happened and what I have to do to fix it? I'm sure not getting any answers from the dealership.

(Originally posted this in the regular Altima section by mistake, so I'm reposting it here too.)

[IBCoupe]

Wait, why couldn't they just read the code for you? Go down to Autozone. They'll read it for free.

[Ranga14]

Yeah, usually the check engine light has to do with exhaust so that is a valid statement.

Go to another dealership maybe?

[DJ_B_Easy]

Wait, why couldn't they just read the code for you? Go down to Autozone. They'll read it for free.

Yaaaaa....why didnt they just plug in and read the code? I'd go elsewhere from now on.

[devilmagic]

Wait. So Nissan dealers have Service bays? What do they do in there?

[DJ_B_Easy]

Wait. So Nissan dealers have Service bays? What do they do in there?

Sodomy

[Ranga14]

Sodomy

Guess I need to schedule my next appointment ASAP then.

[IBCoupe]

On the other hand, if you're a tech at a Nissan Dealership and you drive the car into the bay and you notice the CEL is on, do you:

A) Take initiative and read the code yourself; inform the customer of the results.
B) Alert your supervisor, who will then go ahead and call the customer to alert them of the issue.
C) Some combination of A & B.
D) Take a nap in the back seat.

[IBCoupe]

It's not their responsibility when they aren't informed of the needed service.

...

Customer, in this case, is at fault and is pushing the blame on the Service Dealership for their own lack of follow-through.

Except that it's indicative of poor quality service on the most basic level. It takes them thirty seconds to pull the code, costs them nothing, isn't actually any kind of service that could result in liability, and failing to do so resulted in a pissed off customer, who apparently was supposed to know the internal policies of the dealership before taking their car there for regular maintenance.

Yeah, I'd say the service department's a boneheaded bunch. They didn't even tell the customer that the light was on and ask if they wanted a point check, so the permission crap is just that: crap.

[IBCoupe]

Here's the problem with your analogy: I'm not advocating for them swapping out your transmission when you haven't asked them to. I'm advocating their pulling the code when they notice a check engine light, which in no universe opens up the dealership to any kind of liability. I'm not suggesting it should be policy, I'm suggesting that it's good service and that failing to provide a costless service with absolutely no risks attached is poor service.

[IBCoupe]

Please stop editing your post after submitting, or at least cut down on it.

It makes it confusing when trying to reply and then realizing that you've added more sentences.

Making no promises.

They did not notice the CEL because the customer did not inform their Service Technician or Service Advisor that is was on, nor did they request a point check that require the service technician to notice the CEL. Under typical conditions, an oil/filter change, a tire rotation, or any actions needed to perform those services would cause a CEL to be lit, therefore it would be holding them to an undeserved standard, as I stated before.

It's a big yellow light in the dashboard that stays on abnormally when a car is started. It wouldn't be normal for it to be lit when you drive it into the bay. Stop making excuses for bad business.

And, while I agree that it would have been a "good" service for them to have noticed the CEL, it is not required that they do so. Therefore, the customer should not be angry at the Nissan Dealership or call the employees "incompetent", when they, themselves, failed to follow-through.

Except that it is bad service and a competent garage would have given good service. Yes, the customer could have crossed the T's and dotted the i's, but it shouldn't be necessary with a competent garage.

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[IBCoupe]

Reading the ECU and diagnosis the CEL would have taken 15+ minutes

Only if they sleep for 14 minutes and 30 seconds. That's absolute s*** when I can drive up to any autozone, have them come out to my car and pull the code. Boom, done. Free. Far less than 15 minutes. You're full of crap.

It's a costless, riskless, and logical step that one could make to turn minimum contracted service into actual service. The kind that keeps your customers from posting angry rants about you online. You keep making these ridiculous analogies. I don't have a "check coffee tastes light" on my forehead. Try harder.

I completely understand that they were contractually right. I get it. But what do you think are the chances that TrueFaith is going to be so eager to go back to the dealer? Law smart, business stupid.

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[IBCoupe]

Stop missing the point. Nobody's arguing that they violated a contract, Captain Obtuse.

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[IBCoupe]

No, I meant what I said and I said what I meant. And you're still dodging the issue: that the terms & conditions of the dealership guarantee that the bare minimum is contractually kosher does not mean that it is not bad service. It's an obvious, costless, riskless action on the part of the tech, and it was d!ck of the dealership to piss off the customer by not doing it.

Which would be why more than one poster have suggested that the OP take his or her car elsewhere. It is bad business.

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[IBCoupe]

Still missing the point. PMQ, is that you?

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[IBCoupe]

Do you have trouble sleeping? Nala lives kinda close to me, and I certainly do.

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[Ranga14]

Do you expect Starbucks to know how you'd like your drink prepared without telling them, too?

First, wow, that's a stupid analogy.

Second, I have a compromise, if the tech was anywhere near competent then he would have SEEN the bright glowing light and notify the customer that it's on and ask the customer if they wanted them to do a check on it. That puts the burden back unto the customer instead of the dealership just automatically doing it as has been stated that it's bad for the dealer to just jump and do it automatically. This to ME, is good service by letting the customer know and have the decision.

[IBCoupe]

But that principle only works for you if you plan on having unhappy customers.

[Ranga14]

Responsibility ultimately lies with the customer...

Yes and that's why it's good business to make the customer happy by sighting glaringly obvious issues.

[TrueFaith]

Well, first of all, I probably shouldn't have assumed the CEL lit up only because I was 600 miles past my scheduled maintainence mileage, but knowing that many new cars do that that's what I figured it was. I was told on the phone the 11,500 maintainence was "an oil change and a check". When I got to the dealership it became "an oil change and a tire rotation". Whatever. Like many Americans I assume obvious things are checked and investigated if need be when you bring a new vehicle in for scheduled maintainence appointments. With one dealer employee taking my car to the lift and a different one bringing it back I don't quite understand how neither one of them noticed it. When I started my car and saw it I yelled to a mechanic passing by and the first words out of his mouth when he saw it was "Ooooo...that's not good." It's impossible not to notice the CEL when in the driver's seat, so even though I might have assumed incorrectly that they would see it, it certainly doesn't say much for their employee's initiative. Not offering to immeadiately diagnose the problem after missing seeing the CEL was a bit aggrivating. I have to travel 30 miles round-trip to the dealer and I'm not looking forward to returning again next week. Add to that the fact that after my first oil change there was oil spilled all over my engine cowling and I couldn't remove the oil filler cap without a wrench, which I made sure to make note of my next visit, and I just get the feeling these guys could care less. So far my dealer service department experience has been just about what most people say it is. Pretty much a waste of money.

[IBCoupe]

I'm looking for a decent shop around me, but in the meantime, Midas hasn't done me wrong. Good luck, TrueFaith.

[DJ_B_Easy]

There are truths to everyone's argument here, unfortunately things are the way they are. Let me share. It was a warm spring day...

I had just purchased new brake pads (front and rear sets) and being that Im not 100% car tech savy I didnt want to install them myself and risk killing...myself, or anyone else for that matter. I called around to numerous shops to get the best rate, just so happened that my local dealeship was cheapest to install new brake pads 2 axles front and rear. Drop the car off with the new brake pads (2 boxes, 1 for the front and 1 for the rear) in the front seat.

I return when they call, pay, go get in the car and there is still 1 box of brake pads in the front seat. I of course immediately flip my s*** and go back inside. Service manager tells me there is no way that he quoted me the price he did for both front and rear axles, he says he quoted 2 axles, left and right for front OR rear only. I argue enough with him that he agrees to give me the second set at a MUCH discounted rate, citing that I should have been notified/called/asked about the second when the tech saw that there were 2 sets of pads in my car and his write up only said 1 set of pads.

Business: Doing exactly what is on the write up = Sad, but the way it is. Infiniti wins.
Bad business: Not taking the extra step to notify your manager that the customer had in fact 2 sets of brake pads in the car and not only 1. IB wins.

As far as Im concerned the dealership loses in my scenario. Had the tech said something to his manager and they have called me, rather than me just finding the brakes there with no call, I might not have flipped so bad and have been willing to pay the full price for the rest of the labor. He didnt, I bug, I get discount.

So it goes both ways, you can take the extra step, get some more labor hours into your shop and make more money. OR, you can be a mindless dolt, do exactly like your told/progammed to do, and lose money for your shop not only in OPs case, but worse off in mine where the same labor went for a discounted rate.

Dig?...Now lets all be friends and talk about sodomy.

[QR25DE]

I skipped a lot, if you haven;t done so, pull the code with the gas pedal combo trick. Done.

[IBCoupe]

I skipped a lot, if you haven;t done so, pull the code with the gas pedal combo trick. Done.

What trick is that?

[DJ_B_Easy]

I think he means clear the code? There is an ECU reset thats one of those step on the gas pedal hard 37 times, wait 3 seconds, chug a beer, slam the pedal hard 4 times and hit your sister type deals. I did it once with my boy along with the idle re-learn.

[IBCoupe]

Haha.

That reminds me of something that came up on CarTalk last weekend. The weekend before, they got a call from a trucker whose gas gauge was broken, and he was using a stick to figure out his gas level. He took a stick, put a mark halfway down, and stuck it in, and then he had his half-empty point. But he was trying to figure out how to get the quarter-tank point, and he knew it wasn't halfway down the stick.

Tom & Ray said, "This is easy!" Then proceeded to confuse themselves with the math and realized it wasn't so easy. They said, "We'll have the answer next week." They did, but they also got emails, and one guy who emailed had a method of simplifying it:

Take a beer can. Poke a hole in the side and pour it out into four equal parts. Drink three of them. Pour the last one back in the can, and stick something in there to measure. Then multiply up!