Changed oil, car no longer cranks

[Destrto]

Hey guys, ran into an emergency type of situation this morning. I just changed the oil in my vehicle, trying the Rotella T6 5W40 that Twin Turbo Tim suggested for NA's on his youtube.. And now my car will not crank over.

I just drove it to town earlier this morning to pick up oil and filter, and it was running fine. Changed the oil, let it sit for about an hour because I was cleaning up, and now it acts like the starter is out. It made a loud, terrible sound the first time I tried to start it. No clue what it sounded like. But it didnt sound good at all.

Nothing else was touched, I've looked to make sure the engine bay is clear. I don't know what happened. Any help?

[NolimitZ32]

Was the sound a bang or pop or like a grinding?

[Destrto]

Was the sound a bang or pop or like a grinding?

The initial start up noise was like a harsh bang/pop. It only did that once. And then a couple of times trying to start it after that there was a quick grinding noise, like the starter would make. Now, it just clicks as though something is trying to engage and getting hung up or stuck, and thats all that happens.

I've tried hooking up the battery to a charger to make sure it's not being drained too much by repeated starts. Same result. I don't currently have a 2nd set of hands to try and bang on the starter while i turn the key.

[NolimitZ32]

off topic: I don't understand why people run heavy oils in these cars, a lighter oil is generally better in temperate climates because it can make it's way through the engine faster on startup. The only car I personally have ever owned that loved the heavier diesel oils was my STI that had a big turbo and loads of blow by, the diesel oil was the only thing that could have a normal life cycle in that engine. VGs like lighter oils.

But I digress. You don't need two people to bang the starter, you can bang bang then try turning it over, then bang bang again and try the key. Before doing anything you should crank the engine by hand with a breaker bar to make sure you didn't bust the timing belt or something else severe.

[Zinprogress]

NolimitZ32 thats funny that you said that! I also ran diesel oil in my sti and it loved it! Rotella t heavy oil all year long, ran it in my sti and my wife's big turbo built 257 outback and they really seemed to benefit from it. I used to get so much shiz on the subaru forums for that.... but guess who never wasted a motor do to oiling.

[NolimitZ32]

I miss mine, it was a monster, bug-eye with a 257 and 205 heads on a VF34 with custom tune, 4.44 drivetrain out of an 04 FXT, that car would scoot off the line like a raped ape, most fun 0-60 car I've ever driven.

Sorry for the minor threadjack OP.

[Zinprogress]

when you did the "initial startup" and heard the loud bang, did the motor actually turn over? Id try to turn the motor over by hand and if it turns freely then id pull the starter and inspect the flywheel and the starter for damage. then bench test the starter and see if it kicks out and spins, if it kicks out and doesnt spin then the starter is toast. If it does kick out and spin and there is no noticeable damage to the teeth on the starter and the flywheel then i would take it to a parts store and have them do their free test.

Im guessing either the starter is bad or some teeth on the flywheel or the starter is bad.

[Ace2cool]

If it was a loud bang and now you're hearing grinding, I'd pull the starter and look at the ring gear on the flywheel/flex plate. I've seen ring gears shatter before. Not necessarily on these cars, but I have seen it. Otherwise, look towards timing belt, and as everyone said, try to turn over by hand and see what you've got. You can pull the CAS and see if the cams are rotating with the crank while you turn the engine and not have to take all the timing covers and everything off.

[Destrto]

I ended up taking it to a shop, cause i start work again soon and didnt want to have it down any longer than it had to be.

The shop started out with saying the starter was bad, they said some of the teeth had broken. However, once they put a new starter on, they said the car was doing the same thing. Clicking once then nothing. They have since said that the motor is locked up... And now I'm looking at either a rebuild or replacement. Replacement is going to cost me $2200 minus the cost of another motor.

[Ace2cool]

Man, I'd be wary of someone who just says the motor is locked up with no explanation. Have you personally tried anything we've said to do? You should be able to turn the engine by hand using the crank nut.

Also check the dispstick. Make sure there's oil on it. The oil pressure light never came on? Did the gauge read correct pressure?

[amc49]

Engine spits out a rod and the starter breaks trying to crank it. Entirely possible. Turning motor by hand tells the tale there. Could be starter simply broke its' nose too, both situations rare but do happen.

'off topic: I don't understand why people run heavy oils in these cars, a lighter oil is generally better in temperate climates because it can make it's way through the engine faster on startup.'

I do not agree. The oil mentioned to begin with is a 5 weight simply modified to act like a 40, it's still 5 weight oil while cold for one thing. And another thing the oil companies will never tell you is that while a light oil primes faster the heavier oil didn't drip out of the oil spaces nearly so fast due to the stronger capillary action on a thicker oil to begin with. Give that some thought. Dry starts are a MYTH, if they happened no engine on the planet would last as long as they do. Some oil always remains at bearings and such, the thicker it is the more will be there.

Light oils are for mileage and cold weather only and one other cynical corporate reason that I won't go into here.

[Ace2cool]

I gotta agree with the dry start statement, since my engine hasn't cranked in over a year, and it's still got a thin coating on the piston walls during teardown.

[NolimitZ32]

I wasn't referring to dry start as it pertains to the bearings and contact surfaces, I'm referring to the numerous oil driven systems such as NVCS on the VG specifically. And why run an oil that isn't formulated for your engine. Please spare me the conspiracy theories about big oil, yes they are all evil, yes their marketing department is great, yes we are all fools for listening to the ads. . .

[Destrto]

Sorry for not updating sooner. I have the car back from the mechanics. I spoke to them before I had them bring it back home. They did claim that, after they had the same trouble getting it to start after replacing the starter, they tried to turn it at the crank. They claimed that it would not turn. And I've verified the same by trying it myself.

One other point to mention, is that the car smells like gas leaking. I think it's possible that one or more of the fuel injectors gave up the ghost, and had dumped excess fuel into the cylinders.

This thread will be used for my knowledge purposes. Since I have gotten a replacement motor to go in this ones place.

[amc49]

Possible hydrolock then. Cylinder loaded up with fuel and then it locked solid at cranking to snap a rod.

'And why run an oil that isn't formulated for your engine.'

To save hundreds of dollars over the years maybe? To help the engines last longer maybe? Any variable timing systems should be built to retain oil in them for quick bleedup or something is wrong there. Usually based on the clearances used there and there may be a check valve used on some designs if needed. The oil filter itself has one usually now. Thicker oil would do the same there as well. I run it on variable valve timing systems with zero issues but then I'm in Texas where it doesn't get very cold.

Just for entertainment I ran numbers on Ford's fuel saving 5W-20 motor oil a good while back to figure out fairly close what the fuel cost hit using heavier oil was and It figured out to about $7 a year. I think running the engine on the thicker oil pays back more than that in longevity and so far cannot kill those cars at well over 200K miles each. Neither one uses hardly any oil over a 9K OCI as well. CHEAP Walmart dino oil at $2.64 a quart!

I for one absolutely refuse to use any 5 weight oil in my cars, I have cured startup rattle in newer cars going to thicker oil. The oil companies won't tell you that one either. Look at how all the oil filters pretty much have to have the anti-drainback valves in them now where not many did at all in past years. The oils are getting too thin and they know it. The OEM doesn't care as all they want is the increased mileage numbers for CAFE. Cars last too long nowadays anyway and the oil companies are not the only ones involved in getting older cars off the roads faster to sell new ones. The OEM is having trouble there too, can't sell enough cars.

[NolimitZ32]

Where are your savings? My experience shows the complete opposite, and not only mine but a large number of others who consistently get their oil analyzed and have empirical data collected on the subject. Changing $3/qt oil every 3k miles is more expensive than changing $10/qt oil every 15k miles, $5/qt/15k miles more expensive, all other things being equal. Not only is it cheaper in dollars but in hours spent laying on your back in the driveway. Without actual hard data you'll never convince me that you are getting cheap dino to last much past 4k, all my experience and every oil analysis I've ever seen (mine and others') speaks to that statement.

I'll absolutely agree that the push for 5w oils is CAFE driven, I think that's a well known fact, but going by what you said yourself the formulations of today's oils is so good that you're never having dry starts so again where's the benefit of the heavier oil? Heavier oil is heavier for the required duty of the engine (running temps, blowby, carbon deposits etc. etc.), if your engine is engineered to run on lighter weight oil (like the K series honda engines running 0w for example) where is the benefit of running anything else?

OP sorry for the threadjack, if you haven't done so already, pull the plugs and then try to crank the engine by hand, if it turns move on to a leakdown test (google how its done). Though as the others have mentioned you may have done some gnarly damage, throwing a rod with just the starter on a VG is pretty unlikely, these rods are quite strong (forged). There are a number of things that could have happened and you should rule out the obvious and easily diagnosed before spending money on an engine.

[Destrto]

Where are your savings? My experience shows the complete opposite, and not only mine but a large number of others who consistently get their oil analyzed and have empirical data collected on the subject. Changing $3/qt oil every 3k miles is more expensive than changing $10/qt oil every 15k miles, $5/qt/15k miles more expensive, all other things being equal. Not only is it cheaper in dollars but in hours spent laying on your back in the driveway. Without actual hard data you'll never convince me that you are getting cheap dino to last much past 4k, all my experience and every oil analysis I've ever seen (mine and others') speaks to that statement.

I'll absolutely agree that the push for 5w oils is CAFE driven, I think that's a well known fact, but going by what you said yourself the formulations of today's oils is so good that you're never having dry starts so again where's the benefit of the heavier oil? Heavier oil is heavier for the required duty of the engine (running temps, blowby, carbon deposits etc. etc.), if your engine is engineered to run on lighter weight oil (like the K series honda engines running 0w for example) where is the benefit of running anything else?

OP sorry for the threadjack, if you haven't done so already, pull the plugs and then try to crank the engine by hand, if it turns move on to a leakdown test (google how its done). Though as the others have mentioned you may have done some gnarly damage, throwing a rod with just the starter on a VG is pretty unlikely, these rods are quite strong (forged). There are a number of things that could have happened and you should rule out the obvious and easily diagnosed before spending money on an engine.

Once I have the engine out, I'll begin tearing into it and figuring out exactly what happened.

I don't mind the minor threadjack. It's been an interesting read so far, haha. I've never delved into the specifics behind the what and why for with oils.

[Ace2cool]

Before you pull the engine, try what Nolimit says. pull the spark plugs, pop a 27mm socket on the crank bolt, and try to turn it. No need to pull it if we can make progress there.

[Destrto]

Alright guys. Did what you recommended, and tried cranking the motor by hand with the spark plugs removed. Motor will not move. I nearly hung from the breaker bar and it wouldn't budge. I drained the oil in preparation of removing the motor, and there was a bunch of gas in the pan.

[DCaff300ZX]

OK, you had/have hydrolock. You can vacuum out the cylinders with a wand attached to your wet vac and thru the spark plug holes and recheck for rotation, although you also may have obstructions at this point with the valvetrain/pistons but which you want to confirm over a hydrolock situation in an effort to understand your actual problem.
I have to agree most likely the injector(s) failed and the always-on injector circuit state allows fuel to just dump into the cylinders, and then BAM when you go to start it...but you want to be sure.

[Ace2cool]

You planning on a teardown and autopsy on the old engine? I'd be curious to see what the exact cause was. I'm assuming like Dcaff said, the cylinder filled with gas. But seeing as there was gas in the oil pan, I'd say gas pushed past the rings and diluted the oil. You probably locked a bearing up with heat due to the diluted oil.

[Destrto]

You planning on a teardown and autopsy on the old engine? I'd be curious to see what the exact cause was. I'm assuming like Dcaff said, the cylinder filled with gas. But seeing as there was gas in the oil pan, I'd say gas pushed past the rings and diluted the oil. You probably locked a bearing up with heat due to the diluted oil.

After I get the replacement in and running, I think I may try playing around with a teardown of the old motor. Just to see what actually happened.

[Ace2cool]

If for no other reason than learning I'd say go for it. There's a lot to learn about how everything fits together through a teardown and rebuild. I learned a ton helping my buddy Wes rebuild his.

[Destrto]

If for no other reason than learning I'd say go for it. There's a lot to learn about how everything fits together through a teardown and rebuild. I learned a ton helping my buddy Wes rebuild his.

Oh I agree with you there. I learned a lot from my old 3000GT by tearing a spare I had down to part it out. A lot to learn by just taking stuff apart and putting it back together.