Chains & guides or Plenum first?

[redmanfx]

My 92 Q45a needs some work. At 251K there are no maint. records saying the chains & guides have ever been looked at. That tells me it's a must and soon! I also want everything under the plenum checked and if need be replaced. I'm thinking just replacing all. Spark plugs, Fuel injectors, both knock sensors, O2's and whatever else needs it.

My question is would it make sense to do the plenum stuff now and the guides later or everything at once? I think for practical purposses everything should be done at once and I know we're talking some big bucks here, but I want this all done like yesterday. I'm calling Doug at T-3 in the morning to see how much he would charge for all that. I'm sure I'll gasp at the price, but I really don't want to do it myslef.

If for some reason I do it myself, can I get a guestimation on how long it may take working straight through, with two people and with all the parts and tools on hand? This is a massive undertaking on my part, but one well worth it for this 1st gen car.

I figure 3 to 4 days and I'd replace the 4 actuators for the active suspension as well. Think I'm biting off more than I can chew? I'm not a mechanic, but have done plenty of work on my cars through the years. Of course the Q isn't like most other cars.

I've read all these threads and have a great idea of what and how things need to be done. I'd gather the parts first and then either go to T-3 or do it myself. What say you to this pretty picture?

Redmanfx92 Q45a

[90Q45blue]

I would definitely say that you need to do it all at once. When it comes to engine work, it's best not to double your labor. If you DO decide to do it yourself, expect to spend 5 days on the car. While that may seem high, it is a realistic estimate for a first-time DIYer. Here are some good reference sources:

1) Check out our "Infiniti Articles" section. We have an article on the chain guides.

2) http://wes.spilky.com Wes has a great write-up on the plenum work.

My recommendation is to have T-3 do it. They can do all the work for you for a great price and they will give you the peace of mind of having the best Q45 technicians in the US working on your Q. Also, they can give you a shopping list of what else may need to be done in the future.

Best of luck to you and keep us posted,

Nick

[90Q45blue]

p.s. at 251k, I think you should replace the chains as well as the guides. Dennis says that life on the chains is around 250k.

Nick

[96QQ45]

Shout out to Redmanfx in Morehead City!

I vote for amassing the parts at T-3 and making the trip. I'm not much of a DIY'er anyway but I would feel much better having the experts working on it if it were my Q. Still, that's going to be some bucks to spend on a car with miles that high. Anyway, if your set on getting it right you may as well do it all at once.

[redmanfx]

Thanks for responding. I have definitely checked out Wes's http://wes.spilky.com sight and have all that info on paper already. My sentiments exactly on feeling secure that the right people would be doing the work at T-3.

I guess you have to see and drive my Q to truely understand why I think it worth while to do this. If you drove it you would never think it has such high mileage. The paint and body are in great shape and neighbors initially thought I got a new car. Ha!!

I'm almost convinced about T-3, but still want to get the best deals on parts needed for the job. Does T-3 provide a decent price on parts or should I go through Joe for some of the kits for such work? I have seen kits here and there, but really haven't been able to compare prices between them. I haven't found alot about the fuel injectors either and believe they need to be changed because of an occassional gas smell after acceleration and then letting off the gas. I really want the best parts for the job. I want them to last.

I'll see what Doug says tomorrow. He was out early today, so I missed him.

redmanfx

[rsiwicki]

Do it all at once is my philosophy also especially when you have the best of the best working on your car.

I have got to give you "thumbs up" there redmanfx for putting all these $$$ into your car to get it running perfect. I know that it is not easy...especially after just buying it, but it sure does make the ownership experience more enjoyable as my car is driving me nuts right now with it missing at WOT. I can't wait to hear what the dealer tells me on Thursday what is wrong with it.

[redmanfx]

rsiwicki

Your story is one of true horror and I can't say enough how it saddens me that you have had to suffer through your trial by fire. You seem so enthusiastic still so I'm sure you understand how I feel about the car and it's potential.

I accept donated parts.... anyone, anyone, muehler, muehler.....

redmanfx

[90Q45blue]

Doug will let you know which is cheapest (Sponsor parts v. their parts). Also, it would be cheaper shipping and same prices for you to go with Grubbs Infiniti...they're closer to you.

Nick

[ardvarkus]

Anybody that tells you with certainty whether you sould DIY or go to T3 is wrong: only YOU can make that call.

I did my valve covers, engine and trans mounts, plugs, all plenum hoses, new chains, new guides, new oil pump and oil pump chain, and steering rack refurb. For two days there were two of us, then just me for the next 3-4 days. Not 8 hrs a day- more like 5-6. A LOT of time thinking, posting, looking at the service manual.

I'm not a mechanic, but am very mechanically inclined (engineering degree, but try not to let that interfere)

I've done most of the maintenance on the Q since mile 17. It has around 230k now.

With the luxury of hindsight, I tend to look back and see the chain/guides/mounts experience as a rosy one- but when I was doing it, I told my father in law I wished we were closer to T3. On the other hand, when I got it running, I found the trans was shot, and spent $2600 on a factory rebuild (and that I had someone else install) So the labor I saved on the chains, etc paid for the trans.

There are huge amounts of info on these tasks now compared to 3 years ago- so it will be easier for you to educate yourself. I'd find out all you can, then get a price, then look at the projects you've done, then make the call.

Good luck

Ard

[Q45tech]

Parts are simple T3 sells at retail, the same as most dealers, we buy them from dealers at roughly what NICO members can get them for [but we get them delivered].

T3's labor rate [$70] includes assumptions that we will make 25% on parts. The average job is 55% parts 45% labor, therefore a $100 part cost us $80.

For jobs where customers supply parts we add $20 per hour to our labor rate ~~$90 per billable hour. [what we lose in gross from not selling parts].

Byron does 12 billable hours per day at minimum [some days he can do 15] so we say $1080 per day........because out of towners have expenses we round this down to $1000 for NICO.

Mostly it works out to a significant advantage for the customer, if they get every part they need in advance............but forget a major hose or another significant part needed and all bets are off.

I takes a genius to figure out the pricing in a mix and match situation.......Doug usually splits the difference.

Plenum work is easy: $500 or $640 plus parts......Valve covers are $500 or $570 plus partsChain guides are $1050 or $1550 [with oil pan drop] with parts.

Changing chains adds roughly $1000 [but you get valve covers resealed in process........I just don't think it is worth it on a 250k motor as I might fail at 300k.

Other than engine swaps or above plus a new transmission the MOST out of towners spend is $3-$4,000 on single visits.

When you work under the plenum or inside the engine the last thing you want to use is USED parts.......no used hoses , no used knock sensor/harness, no used injectors, no used guides.......etc.

Now things that are easily changed might be another matter if it only takes an hour or two.

[redmanfx]

Thanks alot for the info. That gives me a rough guess of some prices. I called T-3 today but Doug is out, so this info gets me started in planing this whole thing out. I'm definitely going to start gathering all the parts needed very soon.

Do you know anyone that recharges active suspension actuators? I haven't been able to get up with texasoil and I haven't seen others on these threads.

Thanks again,redmanfx

[QShip]

Do you know anyone that recharges active suspension actuators? I haven't been able to get up with texasoil and I haven't seen others on these threads.

Thanks again,redmanfx

I think he's the only one that does it.

[90Q45blue]

Dennis is right. At 251k you are taking a risk, but it is not a sure thing that the engine will fail in the next 50k. One thing you could do is have T-3 take a look at the engine and give you some kind of feedback on its wear, sludge inside, etc. etc. While I seriously T-3 would give you an estimate on how long it would last for liability reasons, you can make a good guesstimate based on their feedback on compression, power balance, cam wear, sludge, etc.

Nick

[Q45tech]

But the usually wear out failure mode is a rod bearing, so if you had the oil pan off you to take a few looks and only spend say 3-4 more hours...........like 11 hours to look at a few bearings if the oil pan was on.

The point is don't bother with chain replacement just do the guides and don't look at bearings unless the pan has to come off because of broken guides.

We can't fix the bearings with engine in the car and it is not cost effective to fix engine vs $5,000 swap.

Do guides and call it a day if engine fails in 50,000 miles.

We are doing guides and a few other things as we speak on a NICO Missouri members Q.......interesting that at 160k a pasenger side guide was cracked but drivers side were ok.

[redmanfx]

Great info 90Q45blue and Q45tech. You don't know how much I appriciate all of your knowledge on these subjects. I believe I have to wait a couple of months to get the guide work done due to premature FUND drainage. I will however be coming to T-3 to get that done and will "make an appointment" a little latter.

I think I'll be doing everything else myself here. Armed with everything I've gathered from this source I'm sure everything will come out above my expectations.

Again thanks,

redmanfx