Chain guides.....Uh oh!

[DAEDALUS]

No...the engine ran for a little while, right? Then it stopped, with a loud thunk on the right side. I'm not doubting Dennis' hypothesis, just surprised.

[jefftrexler]

Well today was final assembly and they found a major issue that was caused by their work. The exhaust valve in Cyl #4 is bent!!! GRRRR!!! My mechanic asked if I wanted him to do the head work, or to send it to Infiniti like I had stated before. I flat out told him to take it to Infiniti. The shop is eating the cost of the work and parts at Infiniti and the tow fees to get it there. He'll be getting a cost and time estimate here in a little bit and making sure I get a loaner car from Infiniti in the process. I was supposed to clean, install my new subs and fix up my car a little bit today when I got it back and have it ready for a Nissan meet up in Seattle, but that just isn't going to happen. Well...at least I know it will be in good hands. I just hope its not gone for another month!!!

[SOCAL91Q45a]

Thats a huge Bummer bro - sorry for your bad luck. Im very very interested in the COSTS of your head work. Please keep us posted!

[jefftrexler]

Well Infiniti quoted my mechanic at $3800!!!! The catch is, they said they would have to change the guides for new ones (ALREADY HAS NEW ONES WITH NO MILES ON THEM), replace the chains, all valves, all seats re-seal and re-time everything. WTF is that all about?!? Thats like saying that if you got a ding on a fender, you would have to replace the entire side of the car. I told you guys, Beaverton Infiniti is an upstuck snobbish "do it all or screw you" kinda service department. I'm calling Infiniti consumer affairs and will speak with them, then giving the regional manager a ring. I tell you, this is F-d up big time! I'll let you guys know what comes of this.

[Jesda]

Wow, thats such BULL! I cant believe they did that.

[DAEDALUS]

What caused the valve to bend? Did the chain indeed jump while the car was running?

[jefftrexler]

Well I called consumer affairs and filed a complaint against the dealership. The lady on the phone said that there will be a review and an investigation into this for they take all complaints very seriously. Sadly though, Infiniti Dealerships are a independently owned which means they do not have a regional manager! All they have is a GM, who I have spoken to several times and is a stuck-up prick. Well my mechanic said that he could pull the heads and take them to a machine shop here in town that has quite a bit of experiance with Infiniti motors. He said he would check over, clean and replace whatever valves are needed for $100...asuming that the mechanic would buy the needed parts. Now my questions is, should I have them port the heads since they are already out and at the machine shop???? Hell....at this point is there anything I should do since the engine almost apart? It'll probubly be a week until those are finished and the heads will be off the block. My '90 Q45 has 168,000 miles on it....should I have the rods replaced?

[jefftrexler]

What caused the valve to bend? Did the chain indeed jump while the car was running?

Well it seems like the hydrollic tensioner was oil starved and didn't provide wnough pressure against the chain....causing the chain to slack and jump time. LUCKILY the valve just bent and didn't crunch. Cause then the piston would be damaged and the cylinder walls scored all to hell. Bingo-bango-bongo......new engine. If it had come to that point, I know a guy that would be more than happy to pop a fully built Edelbrock Chevy 350 small block motor in and do all the custom wiring and fabrication. Heh....that would be back to the old-style 3-wire ignition system with no computers. Hehehe....imagine a Q45 with the big lobe cams. BRUM-badda BRUM-badda BRUM-badda.

[Rex]

At this point, I'd suggest having them buy a "like new" motor and just swapping it....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...74067

[SOCAL91Q45a]

There was a nicer motor on ebay for $1300 - but farthr away - with 40k miles on her.

I dont think it sold ......

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...33615

and .......

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...33615

[jefftrexler]

Ummmm.....no. I know my engine is good to go when I get the valves changed and everything is re-assembled. With an E-bay motor you don't know what the hell is goin on in that engine. The rods and/or valves could be bent or cracked, the water pump could be seized, the engine could have been over-heated several times....you never know. Plus for way less than $1800 I could get the 350 engine and have it all up and running. In other words, my engine is good, it just needs a little work.

At this point, I'd suggest having them buy a "like new" motor and just swapping it....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...74067

[Q451990]

When my guides went, I had one slightly bent valve. A very small mark on the piston (surface scratch) - they replaced the valves and seals on that one cylinder. This was at Dic(damn filter)k Smith Infiniti in Columbia, SC. With four valves/seals, (removing only the left bank head) new guides, chains, sprockets, etc. was about $2800 back in 1998...

All of that just for reference.

Which way are you going? Work at the dealer or independent. I'd probably go with the dealer work - more expensive but you're not picking up the tab. I understand you trying to take it easy on your independent mechanic, but new valves and seals would be nice. Does that include both heads or just the right one?

Heath

[maxnix]

If you don't want Infinity of Beaverton to warranty it, just have Eric pull the affected head and let you deliver it to the machine shop. Remeber, they are try to CTA for your mechanic's FU, hence their requirement to go through all of it to make sure it is right.

I thought priming the chain tensioner was in the manual?

Seems like your guys could pull the head and get the valve repaired.

A Chevy in a Q45 is like putting Coca Cola in your Petrus, which was a fashion statement in the far east in the late eighties.

[jefftrexler]

CTA??? FU??? Coca Cola in your Petrus???? Was any of that english? Lamense terms please.

Is Eric one of the techs at Bend-you-over Infiniti? :rolleyes My mechanic wanted to talk to one of the techs for like 2 minutes and the GM wouldn't let him stating that the "Techs never come up here. They are always in the garages". No sooner than the *** says that, a Tech walks in and shoots the breeze with someone in the back for like 5 minutes and wanders back out. I tell you, this is some of the WORSE BS I've delt with in all my years of owning a car. I'm thinking this is definatly a case of "Charge them way too much money so they go away" syndrom. I am seriously T-ed off at these guys.

I guess it could be worse, I could be owning a BMW and be taking that to a dealership for work. :P

The manual says nothing about priming the tensioners....at least mine doesn't.

If you don't want Infinity of Beaverton to warranty it, just have Eric pull the affected head and let you deliver it to the machine shop. Remeber, they are try to CTA for your mechanic's FU, hence their requirement to go through all of it to make sure it is right.

I thought priming the chain tensioner was in the manual?

Seems like your guys could pull the head and get the valve repaired.

A Chevy in a Q45 is like putting Coca Cola in your Petrus, which was a fashion statement in the far east in the late eighties.

[maxnix]

CTA=Cover their A$$

FU=Foul Up (for the kiddies).

Chateau Petrus is a first growth Pomerol, about $800+, depending on the year.

Lamense?

Eric is the only senior tech in Beaverton.

Come to Seattle if you really want to lay out some cash ($98/hr.), plus 9.1% sales tax.

Dealer techs aren't cheap, but they are accountable.__________________Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t

Discover the power of the button!

[Q45tech]

Repairing an installation induced bent valve is a pain with the engine in the car! At least 3 days work, plus what do you do with the car while the head is out at the machine shop being checked/corrected for warpage. Space is money and Q take 3-4-5 people to push.Hopefully the rod, wrist pin, piston bottom, bearings are not damaged. When you bend a valve, the valve guides can get damaged from side forces.......replacing one is serious work.Most places just change the valve and proceed ignoring the other possible damages, which may take a while to show up!

They have to start from scratch with the timing chains and guides and retime everything [for their warranty use new parts].

$3800 sounds cheap to me for a dealer to do the work. Lots better than $6000 for a replacement brought up to standards.

Changing chain guides is a serious business and everyone who has done the job has made mistakes------due to the difficult conditions of working with the engine in the car. Can't get your head/eyes where they need to be.

The reason we charge $1200 [for the just the guide replacement] is because 1 out of 10 times you end up with a failure.....costing the shop $3-4,000 to fix.The first time you do a guide job, the probablity is that you will make a mistake and this decreases the more times you do it.But even experieced Master Techs will have an error unless they do them every week/month. Even then they still can make a mistake.

I think back when when you said don't criticize my choice of technican. {his experience} as we are constantly RE-REPAIRING others mistakes.

[SOCAL91Q45a]

"Chateau Petrus is a first growth Pomerol, about $800+, depending on the year."

Whats with the euro's always using this stereotype for us yanks anyways? Who puts Coke in Wine in the last 3 decades?

"Lamense? "

Think he meant "Layman's Terms"

[maxnix]

Who puts Coke in Wine in the last 3 decades?

Popular in far east to show how to appreciate a good Bordeaux that cost them about $2,500 a bottle. I guess they thought they were stretching it.__________________Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t

Discover the power of the button!

[jefftrexler]

So.....should I have the heads port and polished? Would there any be any performance enhancement in doing this, or is it a complete waste of time? The shop at this point said they are willing to do anything I want to the engine free of cost. I'm for sure gonna get the outside of the intake plenum polished so its nice and shiney instead of the boring bland matte grey bumpy look. Perhaps the valve covers will get the same treatment. Bling-bling yo! LOL!

[crubio]

Tell them, based on your expert research, you want a new factory engine. I bet they still make this exact engine. I bet these guys have insurance. Call Joe, just a thought...

May the force be with you

crubio

[SOCAL91Q45a]

"Popular in far east to show how to appreciate a good Bordeaux "

or ... perhaps thats just their way of trying to piss of the froggies?

Makes the French nuts ... LOL

[Rex]

Ummmm.....no. I know my engine is good to go when I get the valves changed and everything is re-assembled. With an E-bay motor you don't know what the hell is goin on in that engine. The rods and/or valves could be bent or cracked, the water pump could be seized, the engine could have been over-heated several times....you never know. Plus for way less than $1800 I could get the 350 engine and have it all up and running. In other words, my engine is good, it just needs a little work.

Excellent point.

[1qckser]

On a none performance standpoint, powder coat the valvecovers and polish the spider of death, should look relly nice.

[maxnix]

Substituting cosmetics to correct a mechanical FU just doesn't seem kosher.__________________Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t

Discover the power of the button!

[1qckser]

How is the project turning out? Hope all is good.