My husband was originally going to swap out his factory navi system and stereo for the Pioneer Avic-F90BT. The original navi system cubby (toggle keys suck!) was going to be replaced with an 8" screen (for the backup camera installed in the center of the license plate and for DVDs) and the F90BT was going to be installed where the stereo was. While we were at the audio store, we thought, "Hey, it would look really cool to have carbon fiber put on the center dash!" So, we picked out the charcoal gray to be put on. Both of us talked about looking at the guy's book of past work, but he didn't have it at the shop. He did show us his partner's book, who would also be working on our car. His book was impressive. Lots of leather dash, seats, speaker boxes, etc. All beautiful work. We should have noticed that there was no carbon fiber work.
I've had work done on my stereo at this place and I liked the work they did. I also felt that they really cared about my car, so I figured they would do a good job. I already had a conversation about how picky we are about the quality of work on our cars and he understood. I also thought if my husband's dash turned out nice, I would get it done as well.
Well, it started out ok, but then when I called the guy to see how things were going, he said he would need an additional day. I told him not to rush and we'd rather have a nicely finished product.
The car was supposed to be finished today, so I gave him a call and told him that even if it's not done, we would come over to look at it. I can't tell you how excited we were to see it.
When we got there, he had only finished the plastic plate around the shifter and the main piece was still being dried. We told him not to rush so it was fine that it wasn't done. When we saw the one finished piece, it had no sheen, you could barely see the fibers, the edges were rough, there were bumps where he cut and joined the fibers and one of the edges was pulling away from the plastic. This was the done piece?! There was also a gap between the aluminum ring and the CF, so it look like something was put over it. The surface texture looked like a cast on a broken arm. We were so disappointed! Good thing we only paid him for half of the work.
We pointed out all the things we felt were problems and told him that we wanted the original plastic back on. He didn't argue with us. He knew it was bad. We could tell that he had spent hours on this thing and it just wasn't turning out. We told him we would pay for the labor, but not the materials. He also agreed to purchase the original dash parts. We were really frustrated with the job being so poor after he had the car for so many days, but we also felt bad for him that he had spent so much time on it. We asked if anyone else in town did carbon fiber work and he said no and that it's more common in FL.
Obviously, we will not be getting any type of CF work here in SC. I'm wondering if there was something else I could have asked him except to see his book. Oh well. Live and learn. Both of us were expecting to see a high gloss, clear coating over the fibers. Is this unrealistic? We paid a boat load of money for all this. Hopefully, it will all come out fine and we'll get our original plastic dash piece back, with the 8" screen on top and the F90BT on the bottom. The good side is, the camera installed on the center of the rear license plate is hardly noticeable.
I needed to vent somewhere. So, anyone know of any good places to get great quality CF work done in either SC or near Austin, TX (we'll be moving there in June of next year)? Things to look out for?
We are SOOOOO bummed it didn't work out.
Carbon fiber - SOOOOO disappointed!!!
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C-Kwik
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What was he using? Real carbon fiber is probably not going to be a great choice of materials unless he lays it and molds it himself, on top of the baking he would have to do to bind it all together. It would also be exceptionally expensive. Cutting carbon fiber look sheets would likely be unfruitful as well as the edges couldn't be easily finished to look good as you seem to have seen.
If you must have a carbon fiber look, perhaps a dash kit that was made for your vehicle would be the better option. The pieces in the kit would already be cut to fit.
Here's an example from one of our sponsors:
http://www.intensepower.com/tocafidakit3.html
The picture doesn't show the carbon fiber look, but it shows what pieces will be included. While any keen eye will know its a dash kit, it will look tons better than anything some stereo shop might be able to piece together.
If you must have a carbon fiber look, perhaps a dash kit that was made for your vehicle would be the better option. The pieces in the kit would already be cut to fit.
Here's an example from one of our sponsors:
http://www.intensepower.com/tocafidakit3.html
The picture doesn't show the carbon fiber look, but it shows what pieces will be included. While any keen eye will know its a dash kit, it will look tons better than anything some stereo shop might be able to piece together.
Re: (C-Kwik)
He was using real carbon fiber. I saw bits of it all over the floor of his shop. He did mold it himself, but there was no baking involved. He showed us all the stuff (liquids) he used to lay it down. He's done CF before, but mostly on flat surfaces, not like the curved, intricate piece of our center dash. Yeah, the edges were nasty. We paid $1K for the total CF job. Since we're only paying him for labor, it is $450.
I was the one who originally wanted the CF dash and did look at those kits. I talked to a guy at a car show who had one and at a local custom car shop (in Tacoma, WA) and they both said that the kits were more likely to yellow with time, no matter what kind of protectant you put on them. You could also see the edges of the stick on pieces, which I didn't like. I know you can get CF hoods, prefab. Why can't they make those for the center dash too?
This stereo shop does custom work on classic cars as well. I trust their work, just not on CF. I saw an old Pontiac something from the 70's(?) that was there that was totally gutted. The speakers and the mounts they were putting in looked very clean. The car was getting several LCD screens, I don't know how many speakers and those sound dampening shields installed all over the car. This place was not like a generic Car Toys.
I still have to go back to them to install my back up camera. I still have faith in them, just not with CF. Call me naive. I believe that when a shop gets to know you, they're more likely to try harder to get the job done right. The guy also owns the shop so I believe he has more incentive to keep his customers happy.
I guess I have to go to more car shows and find a CF installation that I like and ask them where they went to get it done. Do you have any good key questions to ask of a shop before I have them do the work? I don't know how long my husband plans on keeping his car (he's swapped out his car 4 times in the last 4 years), but I plan on keeping mine until it dies and would like to add a few more things. I'm an amateur when it comes to modifying my car, but I want the job done right. I wish I had the guts to work on my own car.
What I would like for my Z is a CF center console, along with the hand holds on the door, CF hood, exhaust kit and the sound dampening shields installed all over the car to reduce the road noise.
Modified by Roadzilla at 10:35 AM 10/22/2008
I was the one who originally wanted the CF dash and did look at those kits. I talked to a guy at a car show who had one and at a local custom car shop (in Tacoma, WA) and they both said that the kits were more likely to yellow with time, no matter what kind of protectant you put on them. You could also see the edges of the stick on pieces, which I didn't like. I know you can get CF hoods, prefab. Why can't they make those for the center dash too?
This stereo shop does custom work on classic cars as well. I trust their work, just not on CF. I saw an old Pontiac something from the 70's(?) that was there that was totally gutted. The speakers and the mounts they were putting in looked very clean. The car was getting several LCD screens, I don't know how many speakers and those sound dampening shields installed all over the car. This place was not like a generic Car Toys.
I still have to go back to them to install my back up camera. I still have faith in them, just not with CF. Call me naive. I believe that when a shop gets to know you, they're more likely to try harder to get the job done right. The guy also owns the shop so I believe he has more incentive to keep his customers happy.
I guess I have to go to more car shows and find a CF installation that I like and ask them where they went to get it done. Do you have any good key questions to ask of a shop before I have them do the work? I don't know how long my husband plans on keeping his car (he's swapped out his car 4 times in the last 4 years), but I plan on keeping mine until it dies and would like to add a few more things. I'm an amateur when it comes to modifying my car, but I want the job done right. I wish I had the guts to work on my own car.
What I would like for my Z is a CF center console, along with the hand holds on the door, CF hood, exhaust kit and the sound dampening shields installed all over the car to reduce the road noise.
Modified by Roadzilla at 10:35 AM 10/22/2008
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C-Kwik
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Re: (Roadzilla)
Well I suppose he can take carbon fiber sheets (fabric) and lay it down in an epoxy to give it a carbon fiber look. But I would imagine it might be like working with fiberglass, in which case it might prove difficult to get a smooth finish. My guess would that the best option would be to find a molded dash kit that is basically a rigidly shaped overlay that goes over the existing dash. But I'm not sure anyone would make something like that as it would likely require a fairly large volume demand to justify the cost to create the molds for all the pieces. Even then, I'm not sure the results would be ideal.
Finding a good shop can be tough. Even if they mean well, if their abilities to perform a particular task is limited, then there isn't much the shop can do. On the otherhand, a shop may have highly skilled employees, but may lack organizational skills or have poor business practices. Finding s shop with both can be tough. Word of mouth is likely the best way to find a shop. And even then, it will be limited to what their skillsets allow.
As for a Carbon Fiobor hood, I've always been weary. Especially on a Z where the Aluminum hood already reduces the weight substantially over a steel hood. But where I have the biggest issue is whether or not the manufacturer put enough attention into making sure the hood buckles correctly if an accident occurs. Take a look at the underside of any OE hood and about halfway between the front and rear, there will be a slight indent that runs across the width of the hood in the frame. This is to allow the hood to buckle in a front end impact that places a significant force on the front of the hood. This does two things. It prevents the possibility that the hood protrudes into the cabin (think guillotine here). And secondly, it can prevent the hood from becoming a huge frisbee which can fly off into god knows what. I suppose its possible to engineer a CF hood to bubkle, but I'm not sure an aftermarket hood manufacturer would put that kind of attention to detail or have done enough testing to ensure this won't be an issue.
Finding a good shop can be tough. Even if they mean well, if their abilities to perform a particular task is limited, then there isn't much the shop can do. On the otherhand, a shop may have highly skilled employees, but may lack organizational skills or have poor business practices. Finding s shop with both can be tough. Word of mouth is likely the best way to find a shop. And even then, it will be limited to what their skillsets allow.
As for a Carbon Fiobor hood, I've always been weary. Especially on a Z where the Aluminum hood already reduces the weight substantially over a steel hood. But where I have the biggest issue is whether or not the manufacturer put enough attention into making sure the hood buckles correctly if an accident occurs. Take a look at the underside of any OE hood and about halfway between the front and rear, there will be a slight indent that runs across the width of the hood in the frame. This is to allow the hood to buckle in a front end impact that places a significant force on the front of the hood. This does two things. It prevents the possibility that the hood protrudes into the cabin (think guillotine here). And secondly, it can prevent the hood from becoming a huge frisbee which can fly off into god knows what. I suppose its possible to engineer a CF hood to bubkle, but I'm not sure an aftermarket hood manufacturer would put that kind of attention to detail or have done enough testing to ensure this won't be an issue.
Re: Carbon fiber - SOOOOO disappointed!!! (Roadzilla)
wow that was long for me to read haha
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Watermelonwarrior
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Re: (C-Kwik)
Great post C-Kwik, and you bring up a good point to question how safe it is to run with a cf hood.
I personally would just keep it stock and upgrade to the new style. I can never decide if I like the cf look. I think I would like it on the interior though. As the stock is pretty boring.
I personally would just keep it stock and upgrade to the new style. I can never decide if I like the cf look. I think I would like it on the interior though. As the stock is pretty boring.
Re: (C-Kwik)
I didn't even think about the issue of safety. I'll drop the hood idea. It would have looked nice though.