Car would not start after a wash ...

Forum for Infiniti M35 and M45, and Nissan Fuga owners.
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szh
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Hi, all.

Last Wednesday afternoon, I had the engine oil changed on my car. Watched the guy do the work and all was done properly. Everything felt normal and it drove just fine after the change.

But, we had had rain that day, and I parked under a tree, and there was lots of seeds on the car, so I took it to a manual car wash in the afternoon to avoid having the acidity from the berries mess up my paint.

I am always careful about water going into the engine compartment, but this time, the car would not start after the wash. :eek:

After about 10 minutes, though, it fired right up ... but, the "Service Engine Soon" lkight and message came on and stayed on. And, it would not go away after a few starts (which were all perfectly normal too).

Since I needed a car for Thanksgiving day travel on Thursday, and I did not have time to go home and use my scanner to check the code, I took it into the dealer and got a loaner. And, it was driving totally fine during that trip to the dealer too.

As of today, they have not had a chance to work on the car yet (will do today, but this does not bother me, since I have a loaner), but I am wondering if I am worrying too much. Maybe I should just have them clear the code and see if it recurs?

Any thoughts as to what I might have done? I did not use the high-pressure water through the grill, but did go down the windshield area to clear out leaves. Not far, but obviously enough to quirk something up.

Z


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IBCoupe
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Z, is your car lowered? Have you scraped over any speed-bumps? Accidents?

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szh
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IBCoupe wrote:Z, is your car lowered? Have you scraped over any speed-bumps? Accidents?
No lowering, no accidents and no scraping over speed-bumps.

Closest that would relate (and it did not occur that day) is that the front rubber trim under the bumper is a bit loose due to scrapes over "tire stops" when parking.

But this is a rubber/plastic part that is just a bit loose ... no electrical connections whatsoever.

Z

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IBCoupe
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That rubber thing might have served as a shield. I'm going to assume that you were washing the car on a level surface, and I wonder if your high-pressure hosing didn't reflect off the ground and splash just enough water in just the right way.

There's a sensor in there, if memory serves that will keep your engine from starting if it gets wet, and if memory serves, it's usually not far above the ground. I'm not being very detailed because my memory is hazy, and I'm not a mechanic.

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szh
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Hmmm ... thanks. Could be, but I generally try to avoid letting the high-pressure water bounce off the ground if I can (gets the soapy water back onto the car!)

The car was on level ground - with just a slope to the center (under the car) where the water drains away. The rubber trim is very small - just about 1 to 2 inches as i recall - hanging down from the front bumper. Not much of a shield ... the engine shield under the car is intact.

The car is running fine, so maybe it was a transient thing ... I hope anyway!

Thanks again,

Z

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IBCoupe
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Yeah, probably just moisture getting on... something. I wouldn't worry about it if it doesn't recur.

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szh
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Okay, the CEL recurred ... :(

Code diagnosis said that the CMP sensors (what the heck are those?) are not working properly. And need to be replaced. Cost (including labor) is high: $416, but it did not have anything to do with the water, most likely. Coincidental perhaps ... :confused:

Oh, well. It is being worked on now.

Z

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Oil change guy knocked into something.

DeanM45
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szh wrote:Okay, the CEL recurred ... :(

Code diagnosis said that the CMP sensors (what the heck are those?) are not working properly. And need to be replaced. Cost (including labor) is high: $416, but it did not have anything to do with the water, most likely. Coincidental perhaps ... :confused:

Oh, well. It is being worked on now.

Z
Camshaft Position Sensor(s). You sure the oil change guy didn't do something weird? If your engine cover on and if so, did the oil change guy take it off?

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szh
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wingFeather wrote:Oil change guy knocked into something.
DeanM45 wrote:Camshaft Position Sensor(s). You sure the oil change guy didn't do something weird? If your engine cover on and if so, did the oil change guy take it off?
Hmmm ... I was watching him pretty closely and I am pretty sure he did not do anything wrong, but who knows, I guess!

FWIW, the lower engine shield is still on the car, of course (the top engine cover was not touched at all).

On the bottom, the 2003/4 M45 has a small rubber flap in the shield, with two screws that need to be unscrewed to get access to the filter and drain plug, but that is about all you can access when that flap is lowered, as far as I can remember from looking at it in the past.

Is the camshaft position sensor near those bottom filter and plug locations on the Y34? I will have to go look at the Service Manual diagrams ...

Thanks, guys! This is great information to point me in the right direction.

Z

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http://www.nicoclub.com/FSM/M/2003/em.pdf

Page EM-35....the sensor is #25 in the diagram

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The thing I'm seeing here is that if it happened after a car wash, the likely case to me is that it's an connection issue rather than a sensor issue. Remember on the old Q's how they had issues with some of the connectors corroding and causing issues (MAF)... Maybe you have the same issue.

Remember, the computer can only diagnose the SYMPTOM, not the cause. The dealer is always going to recommend that you replace that part, when in fact maybe the sensor isn't bad but the connection is bad.

I'd locate cam sensors and try and inspect the connectors before you go too far... Maybe even an old guy like you could handle that??? ;)

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Is the work being done already? Are we too late to troubleshoot or?

From the diagram Matt posted, how the hell does that part + labor cost 416 bucks? It looks like a single bolt, sensor and oring. Almost exactly the same as my 540.

If it hasn't been fixed, pull that plug, hit it with some contact cleaner or compressed air and reinstall it. Clear the codes and see what happens. You could always pull the sensor and inspect it for cracks or something as well. Depends on your level of confidence.

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szh
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Thanks, guys.

Too late at this point to diagnose further unfortunately (I probably paid more than should have for the work, I suppose).

More importantly, both camshaft position sensors were bad (one threw a code, the other had not yet failed totally, but was apparently cracked too). The connectors were checked and cleaned, but the engine code recurred even after that, so it clearly needed sensor replacement - at least one needed for sure.

Yes, I am surprised that both sensors were acting up, I suppose.

Anyway, labor was relatively minor - the cost was in the parts apparently (dealer costs for parts and labor, of course, so that is typically high). I will find out more when I pick the car up this afternoon.

Anyway, thanks for all the responses, folks.

Z

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WDRacing
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Well atleast they will be G2G now...

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szh
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WDRacing wrote:Well atleast they will be G2G now...
I certainly hope so! :)

Z


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