Car won't start

[normaspirated]

I rigged on a mitsubishi dropping resistor onto the harness. Made sure that it read 6 ohms, of course. Knew the battery was COMPLETELY dead and so I attempted to jump start it. Turned the key to "ON" and heard the fuel pump. The red gauge lights to the right (i.e. brake, seat belt, oil, etc...) lit up, but the yellow CEL indicator as well as the other indicators to the left, didn't. Anyway, I attempt to start the car and the engine was turning over, but it wasn't starting. Changed the spark plugs and tried again...nothing. I'm thinking maybe the battery is so dead that it won't be able to start the car (doubt it, ). What could the problem be?? I didn't have the MAF connected, but I also don't think that's the problem. I'll take pics later today.

[redamnavit]

1)When you changed the plugs, were they wet? Could you smell fuel?

2)Are you sure you're getting spark? Try pulling a plug when its pitch black out and look for spark. Or get an inline spark tester. Speaking of plugs, Did you gap the plugs?

You should probably charge the battery just to rule that out. Or at least get it tested at the local auto part store to see if it'll hold a charge.

[r34 gtr]

has it started before? if youre just starting it for the first time it may take a little while for it to fire up.. i would try to connect up everything possible, just to try and rule out as much as possible. check for spark and fuel, other than that i cant think of much just yet.. does the ecu throw any codes?

- tim

[normaspirated]

1.) Yes, I could smell fuel on the old plugs. So, I changed them to stock ca18de (88 pulsar NX SE) NGK plugs.

2.) "Try pulling a plug when its pitch black out and look for spark." <--- How would I go about doing that? No, I did not gap the plugs, btw. Where would I find an inline spark tester? At the local autostore?

[normaspirated]

Last night was the first time I attempted to fire it up. Read first post about CEL. Yellow light indicator wasn't lighting up at all. God this sucks!!

[Trigger]

ok man its easy to findout about spark...just pull the coil pack and put a screw driver in it and put it next to something metal...ie a nut or bolt...have someone turn the car over if your getting spark then you will see a spark from the screw driver to the nut or bolt.. thats the cheapest and fastest way to check....try that and if your getting spark then it should crank but if you have fuil there then more then likely you dont have spark

Tim

[r34 gtr]

what is this yellow light buisness? all i get is 3 red ones.. car runs fine though - when it was running.

check the spark by pulling a plug and leaving it connected to the coil but just sitting on the valve cover. have a buddy crank the engine or watch as you crank it and see if its firing. just dont get shocked by one of those things, they hurt like nothing else.

when i started mine for the first time it of course fired up instantly because its cool like that, but when i first tried to start an isuzu trooper i was working on that had been sitting for 4 years it took 30-45 minutes of cranking. everyone gave up and went in, i knew that thing would run. boy were they all surprised when i tore out of the driveway in it 10 minutes later! that thing was awesome, it would climb a tree when it was in 4-low in 1st gear. im serious, we tried it, it went right up.

- tim

[redamnavit]

check the spark by pulling a plug and leaving it connected to the coil but just sitting on the valve cover. have a buddy crank the engine or watch as you crank it and see if its firing. just dont get shocked by one of those things, they hurt like nothing else.

You can probably find one at a local parts store, or google for "inline spark tester" and pick one you like.

[r34 gtr]

or just put your tongue on the plug and have a buddy crank the car over. you will instantly know if the car is firing or not.

my way > tester because its free. and im cheap so i guess this is a little bit biased..

you could also just listen to the engine to see if its firing.. the tester or the plug thing is the best idea though..

- tim

[normaspirated]

You know what? I think I need to start it a couple more times so it can "break in". And here's an even crazier thought. Not only is the battery dead, but I think the fuel is a tad bit old LOL 3 months and it's almost on empty......Hmmmm..... Didn't get a chance to work on the car today, but def. tomorrow. I'll try:

-Changing the battery to a new one-Put some 93 octane fuel-Check to see if I'm getting spark-Installing and plugging in the MAF sensor

If my car doesn't eventually start after all of this is done, I'm going to the local gun store and......yeah

EDIT: Forgot to thank everyone for their advice. So, without further ado....thanks!

[Trigger]

i think your going to get it figured out...probably the fuel problem...i know i did that too...was about to take a hammer to it and my dad said....does this gass gauge work...i said yeah and he laughed and called me a moron...oh well it's good to have gas on hand

Tim

[r34 gtr]

yeah, know how the gas thing worked. my car had 6-month old 87 crap in it when i was going to crank it, so i used 40gal worth of octane booster and 10gal worth of gas stabilizer in 6gal of fuel. it fired up so damn fast...

another time it wouldnt start in my high school parking lot, so i spent several hours running back and forth to the school's maintenance shed borrowing sockets and screwdrivers. i checked the plugs, ecu for codes, wiring, etc. and even missed work only to notice about 3 hours later that i was out of gas.

- tim

[normaspirated]

*Update*

Car still won't start. I put in a new battery and two gallons of 93 octane plus octane booster. I then pulled out a coil pack, connected a new spark plug onto the coil pack, laid it on the valve cover and had my cousin start the car. No visible spark I even put on some sunglasses and looked even closer and saw no signs of a spark *sigh*. Engine is cranking/turning and fuel is adequate, but no spark. Here are some possibilites of what the problem may be:

1.) Igniter2.) Coil packs3.) Blown fuse(s)? *shrug*

Anyone have an idea of what the problem most likely is?

P.S. Didn't get to take pictures 'cause I forgot to bring my camera

[Trigger]

well i dont think that all your coil packs would burnout at same time....i would check first to see if i am getting any power to the power wires to the packs. if your not getting power which i bet your not then i would try a new ignitor...i think i have a second lying around here i can sell ya for cheap. I guess a good thing would be to check the power to the ignitor also. see if your getting power in but not out that would mean its bad. do that and tell us what you get

Tim

[normaspirated]

I hope it is the igniter . Sometime this week I'm gonna the voltage of the igniter with a multimeter. That or borrow someone's to see if that cures the problem and then..uh...return it....yeah...

[r34 gtr]

theres actually a ca igniter on ebay right now. dont think its going for much at all. just go to ebay and search for "ca18det", it should be about 2/3 the way down the page.

- tim

[normaspirated]

Yeah, I saw that. It ends like in 4 days. I'm gonna check with a multimeter to see if it is a faulty igniter first. *crosses fingers*

[iliketocrash]

i had a very similar problem once. i had two plugs switched. i forget what they were though... i know one of them was the big plug for the coil harness...

[normaspirated]

i had a very similar problem once. i had two plugs switched. i forget what they were though... i know one of them was the big plug for the coil harness...

What two plugs? Ecu to the igniter? Igniter to the coil packs?

[Notchbackca]

yeah, it shouldn't take any squinting to see the spark, CA's have a very powerfull ignition system, but REMEBER, you need to have a complete circut, you will NOT see a spark unless you touch the ground electrode to ground(ie your block/head) just holding it out in the air will do you no good

[normaspirated]

Tried that. Still nothing

[normaspirated]

Tried using another igniter and ecu...still nothing. Checked to see if the igniter and coil packs are getting resistance, and sure enough they are. Car still won't start What the helllll could it be??? Bump for more suggestions

[normaspirated]

*update*

Ecu is throwing codes 23, 45 and 12. I think one of the codes represents the maf which, of course, isn't connected. Another one of the codes represents the eccs relay which I checked and sure enough, I need to replace it. Does anyone know what the other code might mean? So close but yet so far

[float_6969]

When you have multiple codes, ESPECIALLY the ecs relay code, I'd fix that stuff first and then try it again. Sometimes you'll get mulitple codes, when actually there is only one thing wrong.

[normaspirated]

I know that the maf code will go off 'cause I didn't connect it. I'll attempt to get a new eccs relay this weekend. I hope to God that that solves my problem *Crosses fingers*

[normaspirated]

*update*

There is spark! The plugs I were using were cheap *** champion ones. I put back the NGK ones that came with the motor originally and there was spark!

Here comes the bad news: Car still won't start. I know it's getting fuel and spark now. I would give it some gas as I start the car...and sure enough, I smell fuel. However, my friend suggests it's the timing. Unfortunately, we didn't have a timing gun and couldn't test it so....yeah. Next time when i acquire one.

Anyone ever have any problems with the timing on ca18det's?

By the way, I replaced the dropping resistor with ca16de one. That was all plug and play
Modified by normaspirated at 11:17 PM 9/22/2004

[boost_boy]

*update*

There is spark! The plugs I were using were cheap *** champion ones. I put back the NGK ones that came with the motor originally and there was spark!

Here comes the bad news: Car still won't start. I know it's getting fuel and spark now. I would give it some gas as I start the car...and sure enough, I smell fuel. However, my friend suggests it's the timing. Unfortunately, we didn't have a timing gun and couldn't test it so....yeah. Next time when i acquire one.

Anyone ever have any problems with the timing on ca18det's?

By the way, I replaced the dropping resistor with ca16de one. That was all plug and play

Modified by normaspirated at 11:17 PM 9/22/2004

The only way it would be your timing if you or someone tried to change the timing belt before. Your problem started with the rigging of the mitsu dropping resistor. All in the electrics. If you wire it up wrong, it won't start. If you don't ground your engine properly, it sure as hell is not going to start and will give you weak spark. If you keep changing parts, you are going to get a headache, get frustrated and then try to sell your swap as well. Go back from whence you came and start all over. Double check everything! I'm pretty sure it's something simple, but it comes with the territory of being a do-it-yourselfer. And please plug up your maf. It makes no sense to piss off the computer by not attaching one of it's primary sensors. Make sure that you have the right plug on the water temperature sensor, or it definitely won't start.

Dee

[normaspirated]

The only way it would be your timing if you or someone tried to change the timing belt before. Your problem started with the rigging of the mitsu dropping resistor. All in the electrics. If you wire it up wrong, it won't start. If you don't ground your engine properly, it sure as hell is not going to start and will give you weak spark. If you keep changing parts, you are going to get a headache, get frustrated and then try to sell your swap as well. Go back from whence you came and start all over. Double check everything! I'm pretty sure it's something simple, but it comes with the territory of being a do-it-yourselfer. And please plug up your maf. It makes no sense to piss off the computer by not attaching one of it's primary sensors. Make sure that you have the right plug on the water temperature sensor, or it definitely won't start.

Dee

My car's at a shop. The shop was almost finished with the install, but they needed a dropping resistor. I couldn't find the correct one and so I gave them a mitsubishi one. 2 weeks pass and they still haven't worked on it. So, I brought it upon myself to install it myself. After I "ghetto" rigged it on, I tried starting the car. Car wouldn't start, took out the old plugs and bought some cheap *** champion plugs by cross referencing them with a ca18de. Put'em in, still didn't fire up. Checked to see if I was getting spark...nada. The shop had my spare igniter and ecu. Did some different combinations with my 2 igniters and ecus....nothing. Checked the ignition relay and it was blown. Replaced it....still no start.

Yesterday (9/22/04), the correct dropping resistor finally came in at the dealer. Picked it up, headed to the shop, took out the mitsu one and plugged in the new one. I then pulled out one of the plugs and it broke in half. I put the original NGK's, that came with the motor, into a coil. I then grounded it onto the intake manifold and sure enough, I've got spark. Did the same for the other three and I got spark for all the rest. Put the old plugs back, tried starting it up and....nothing. This all happened in a span of 3-4 weeks.

And that's my current situation at the moment. I don't think that there's anything wrong with the ecu or igniter. So according to you, it MIGHT be two things:

1.) Water temperature sensor2.) Bad grounding

But I still want to rule out the timing, and so I need to make sure that the timing is stock (10 degrees btdc, I think).

P.S. I plugged in the MAF already so the ecu's not throwing out the maf code anymore

EDIT: Oh, and I'll install newer stock NGK plugs

[boost_boy]

One last thing, check all the wires by the ecu's harness. Sometimes the previous owners remove thier aftermarket add-ons and leave very important wires cut, thus preventing your car from starting; so check that as well.

Dee

[pulsar gtr]

HI,

If you are getting a spark now but car still not starting, there are two possibility.

timing is off, or injectors not firing (I know you said that you smell gas).So to illuminate your injectors, get yourself a quickstart and spray it inside the throttle body and try to start it, keep your face away from the intake so it doesn't back fire and burn yourself.

If you sprayed quick start and the car tried to start then your injectors are clogged and need to be cleaned. If the car doesn't try to start at all, I would check the timing belt, it might be off few teeth and that will cause your problem.God knows what they have done to the engine before they decided to remove it from the car from Japan and ship it, it is always good to double check the timing belt and make sure it is set right.

Timing should be set at 15degrees TDC.

These engines as long as they get spark and fuel they will start no matter what, they might not ideal or run right, but they will start.

PULSAR GTR