Car will not start.

[pfarmer]

Today I went out to start my 'G' and it would not start. The key appears to be recognize since if I take it out it it will tell me 'no key' when it is suppose to be in the car, if I leave the key in it will tell me that as well.

Everything else works but the starter doesn't seem to make any attempt to do anything, other devices under the hood seem to respond.

I wrote them a letter and will call them tomorrow. This will be the 3rd time in the shop for this same problem and I told them this will be the last.

Perry

[BrandAidDesignG35]

That is disapointing, sorry to hear of your troubles...

[joe603]

Gotta be a sensor...I know you have to hit the brake before it will start. What did they say the problem was last time?

[pfarmer]

Gotta be a sensor...I know you have to hit the brake before it will start. What did they say the problem was last time?

This is the third time. The first time the codes were related to starter relay, brakes, and key not recognized. The car at this time was flakey and if you played with it it would start after a couple of attempts.

The second time the codes were related to steering lock. They could not find a problem and replaced the IPDM.

This time nothing seems to work as far as the starter goes, which I have sort of as a possible suspect. Other things seem to move in sequence under the hood, for example there is some whirling noise I can't figure out and also what sounds like maybe the brakes. The gauge cluster moves, the seat moves, everything seems to go except the starter.

The steering lock confuses me a little since the last time when the IPDM was replaced the car failed to start the next day. I got to the steering lock module and pushed on the connector which seemed seated. The car started afterwards and has been ok for about 2 months.

The reason I place the starter on the list is that during the first and second time there were a couple of starts where the standard starter solenoid click, click, click sound could be heard and then the starter engaged.

I am actually a little bit happy (other than it is a pita) that it is dead now since it should be easier to figure out the problem with it dead. That is if they have any clue about troubleshooting.

I would for example probably work backwards at the starter. I am not sure that wasn't the original problem, the rest brought on by taking the shot gun approach and hitting upon everything else.

Perry

[joe603]

I would probably replace the starter and test again...seems like the last thing to try before delving into electrical wiring madness.

[Poyzinous]

You know perry you just may have a defective starter. The signal can interfere with other codes because they are interconencted, but I dont know whats the real issue. I can tell you that the starter is a very rare failure on newer infinitis, as at my dealer only 10 starters have ever been done on G's.

[pfarmer]

You know perry you just may have a defective starter. The signal can interfere with other codes because they are interconencted, but I dont know whats the real issue. I can tell you that the starter is a very rare failure on newer infinitis, as at my dealer only 10 starters have ever been done on G's.

I have had starters with a dead spot before. If the starter happened to stop on one it would not start. On one car I could actually take a rod and just give it a little tap and off it would go. Took apart and nothing was apparant as far as the commutator, brushes, etc. Turned out to be a bushing on the shaft. I've rebuilt lots of these turning the rotor in a mini lathe, bushing replacements, etc. Now days you just toss the old and put in the new.

I kind of hope it is the starter so it gets replaced because it probably has a lot of premature wear on it caused by this on going problem anyway.

Today I called them and a tow truck was sent. They wanted to send a dolly type but I insisted on a flat bed. The guy showed up about 10 minutes before I was to leave for work and I steered it on to the flat bed and watched it get strapped down just in time for me to leave. It should have gotten up to Fife around 1:30, haven't heard a peep out of the dealer yet.

Perry

[WAldenIV]

Will it start with the physical key inserted into the console? This might help determine if the problem is related to the communication between the smart key and the car. If it doesn't start with the key inserted, it would point towards the starter.

[pfarmer]

Will it start with the physical key inserted into the console? This might help determine if the problem is related to the communication between the smart key and the car. If it doesn't start with the key inserted, it would point towards the starter.

The car would not start with either key in the dock.

One item for a tech if one is hear or anyone with a similar car. Since I never really paid attention to the steering lock I wonder if I have a failure here. Keep in mind that the last time there was a steering lock code present and after I fiddled with it a day after it returned from the shop and died again the car would start.

Now the question is this - with the car in the off position and the key outside the car should not the steering wheel be locked? I asked because I could turn the wheel in both directions fully. This seemed odd to me at the time but since I never really paid attention to it I am curious if this may be the problem since the code showed up before and it is part of the start logic.

I mentioned this to the girl on the other end of the line but she said that the steering only locked in a more extreme left or right postition off of center. After reading the manual it seems like she is wrong and it is only 1/8th of a turned from dead center. I just sent the service manager this info as well.

Perry
Modified by pfarmer at 11:29 PM 6/6/2009

[tollboothwilley]

I think you're on to something with the steering lock. I think with my key out of the ignition it locks up with less than 1/4 turn of the steering wheel.

[pfarmer]

I think you're on to something with the steering lock. I think with my key out of the ignition it locks up with less than 1/4 turn of the steering wheel.

I don't know if they are just shotgunning this again, but tomorrow it gets a new BCM.

Found another vette that I may look at tomorrow as well, located just a little ways from the Infiniti dealer. This one has 18k miles instead of 50k and is a 2006 instead of a 2005. It doesn't have all the fancy aftermarket stuff but looks like a better car by far if I decide to kill the 'G' experiment.

If I do then I'll need to trade my second car in for a Jeep as I really need AWD for at least some of the year.

Perry

[pfarmer]

I don't know if they are just shotgunning this again, but tomorrow it gets a new BCM.

Found another vette that I may look at tomorrow as well, located just a little ways from the Infiniti dealer. This one has 18k miles instead of 50k and is a 2006 instead of a 2005.

Perry

An update, the BCM came in today but the assigned technician did not. Was told he was off sick, I stated that was a dealer issue, my issue is a reliable car which I have yet to have from Infiniti.

Perry

[BrandAidDesignG35]

Vettes are nice And so are 370Zs

Stupid sick people I hope you get your car in renewed condition, perhaps they'll take your situation into consideration, and offer a free clean of the car interior and exterior, to bring it back to it's original luster, and restore your confidence in your dealership.

Insist on some kind of reimbursement or warranty (of course) on their labour... I hope you stick around the G community, I feel that their is no finer brand than Nissan/Infiniti.

[pfarmer]

Vettes are nice And so are 370Zs

Stupid sick people I hope you get your car in renewed condition, perhaps they'll take your situation into consideration, and offer a free clean of the car interior and exterior, to bring it back to it's original luster, and restore your confidence in your dealership.

Insist on some kind of reimbursement or warranty (of course) on their labour... I hope you stick around the G community, I feel that their is no finer brand than Nissan/Infiniti.

So late today they sent me email saying the car is ready for delivery tomorrow. Note no phone calls of any kind even through they have all of my numbers (boof of them). I sent mail back stating I have to go back to work tomorrow and I do not accept a blind delivery. I said I will come in early Saturday to visually inspect it since the last time they damaged the shifter trim, the first time they scuffed the bumper (which I rubbed completed out) by hitting a box or something like that. Proof was that it occurred after they washed it. I also sent email to the one who holds the vette giving him permission to look it over at his leasure tomorrow for possible trade. I informed Infiniti he may be over as well and they had better treat him well.

I gave around $40 k in cash for this car and it has proven to be a very poor investment when my 10 year old 150k mile car has proven far more reliable.

If anyone wants to make me a good offer for a Black on Black (and tinted windows) 2008 XS with every option including technology (do a search on a 2008 XS to see how rare this is) I'll have to entertain it. I'll let everyone know if the vette ends up in my drive.

Perry

[pfarmer]

Vettes are nice And so are 370Zs

Stupid sick people I hope you get your car in renewed condition, perhaps they'll take your situation into consideration, and offer a free clean of the car interior and exterior, to bring it back to it's original luster, and restore your confidence in your dealership.

Insist on some kind of reimbursement or warranty (of course) on their labour... I hope you stick around the G community, I feel that their is no finer brand than Nissan/Infiniti.

Here is an update.

I was sent email to tell me the car was ready on Thursday afternoon. Wanted me to take delivery on Friday. I stated I would be down on Saturday to inspect it.

What I found. The kick panel on the drivers side shows that they had trouble removing it due to the plastic showing white on the lower side where it meets the floor near the firewall. I told them that this was not a big deal. What was a big deal was the fact that both front mud guards were damaged by what looks like straps from the tow truck. Both sides are indented for about 1 inch in the vertical and the plastic worn away past outside layer. I specifically told them by phone to meet the truck when it was unloaded because I wasn't present when it was tied down (although I did steer it onto the truck) since I had to go to work and did not have a good feeling about the tow truck outfit. I have this documented on the work order 'WATCH FOR DAMAGE WHEN TOWING CO UNLOADS'. So I told them today it wasn't coming home just yet and I wasn't very happy.

Nothing yet scheduled for the guards to be fixed.

They replaced the BCM this time. The second time it was the IPDM, the first time nothing was done.

1st time - It was kept for several days with 2.2 hours charged to warranty.

Codes - B210C PNP RELAY OFF, B210E STARTR RELAY OFF, B2110 INTRLCK / PNP SW OFF ALL CODES FOUND IN PAST.

2nd time - Kept for several days with 1.1 hours charged to warranty. IPDM replaced.

Codes - B210C AND B210E.

It was returned and failed the next day. After looking at the steering lock module it started for me and worked for about 2 months.

3rd time - June 4th, car would not start, car picked up by flatbed June 5th. Car looked at on June 9th and BCM ordered. BCM arrived June 10th with tech out sick. June 11th BCM installed and all was declared good. Today June 13th car inspected and damage found to mud guards. Refused delivery in this condition. 4.0 hours charged to warranty.

Codes - B2191, B2603, B2604, B2605, B2617 IN BCM. IN IPDM B210C, B210E, B2110.

BCM replaced, keys reprogramed, replaced shifter trim damaged from second visit upon my demand.

Looked at 2006 vette again, starting to look better each time I look at it.

They have 7.2 hours charged to this problem with the car being in their hands at this point about 2 weeks total (and counting) since the beginning of the year.

Perry

[Poyzinous]

If those codes were present the first time, I wonder why the BCM wasn't replaced on the first trip... Sounds to me like the first time someone was being lazy. Have to tell you though, haven't seen anything that serious involving your issue over here.

[pfarmer]

If those codes were present the first time, I wonder why the BCM wasn't replaced on the first trip... Sounds to me like the first time someone was being lazy. Have to tell you though, haven't seen anything that serious involving your issue over here.

Based on everything I have seen so far I don't think these guys have any trouble shooting skills at all.

They are one reason I am thinking about dumping the machine. They are the closest dealer by far and are about 52 miles out. Even if the car is now 'fixed' I have lost complete faith in it and them. And the bad thing about this is 'them' are probably largely responsible. Consider that this week alone I have 208 miles associated with driving to the dealer. If this was a chevy in the same situation I would have less than 50 and on top of that have 3 to pick from.

Perry

Perry

[pfarmer]

If those codes were present the first time, I wonder why the BCM wasn't replaced on the first trip... Sounds to me like the first time someone was being lazy. Have to tell you though, haven't seen anything that serious involving your issue over here.

Just did some calculations. Since March 18 the car has been out of service for 14 days and counting. There is a total of 7.3 hours charged to warranty work.

Damage to the car since taking into this dealer. First time after purchasing car took in to repair 'invisible bra'. Work took all day and was not completed when it was to be given back to me. After close to another hour I went out and found scuff marks on the bumper like from hitting a box. I buffed out with scratch x.

Took in 4/13/2009 with starting problem, car returned after IPDM replaced, on way home found small dent and scratch on shifter trim next to emergency park release hatch.

6/13/2009 (yesterday) went up to inspect car and found damage to both front mud guards which requires their replacement.

I think you can get a picture of why I am looking at other options.

Perry

[WAldenIV]

I think you can get a picture of why I am looking at other options.

Perry

Based on my experience, and what I've read and heard from others, I really think your experience is the exception to the rule. It sounds like you have a dealership that is sub-standard and a fluky vehicle.

Have you tried contacting Infiniti directly? Maybe you can get some answers from the big company.

I know that in my experience the combination of luxury and performance of the G series for the price is tough to beat.

[telcoman]

Just did some calculations. Since March 18 the car has been out of service for 14 days and counting. There is a total of 7.3 hours charged to warranty work.

Damage to the car since taking into this dealer. First time after purchasing car took in to repair 'invisible bra'. Work took all day and was not completed when it was to be given back to me. After close to another hour I went out and found scuff marks on the bumper like from hitting a box. I buffed out with scratch x.

Took in 4/13/2009 with starting problem, car returned after IPDM replaced, on way home found small dent and scratch on shifter trim next to emergency park release hatch.

6/13/2009 (yesterday) went up to inspect car and found damage to both front mud guards which requires their replacement.

I think you can get a picture of why I am looking at other options.

Perry

What a bummer. Is there a lemon law in WA. ?

Based on everything I have seen so far I don't think these guys have any trouble shooting skills at all.

They are one reason I am thinking about dumping the machine. They are the closest dealer by far and are about 52 miles out. Even if the car is now 'fixed' I have lost complete faith in it and them. And the bad thing about this is 'them' are probably largely responsible. Consider that this week alone I have 208 miles associated with driving to the dealer. If this was a chevy in the same situation I would have less than 50 and on top of that have 3 to pick from.

Perry

Perry

I would ask for a new replacement vehicle. They will probably decline but you should then request reimbursement for the gas and all of your time.

I believe you are also entitled to have them come pick up and return your vehicle at no cost to you.

Knock on wood, my G is the best and most reliable vehicle I have ever owned.



So far in almost 3 1/2 years & 90k miles, Infiniti replaced two defective tire pressure sensors and a defective air bag control module all during the first year on mine.

If you continue to have problems keep pushing for a replacement vehicle.

Telcoman

[pfarmer]

What a bummer. Is there a lemon law in WA. ?

I would ask for a new replacement vehicle. They will probably decline but you should then request reimbursement for the gas and all of your time.

I believe you are also entitled to have them come pick up and return your vehicle at no cost to you.

Knock on wood, my G is the best and most reliable vehicle I have ever owned.



So far in almost 3 1/2 years & 90k miles, Infiniti replaced two defective tire pressure sensors and a defective air bag control module all during the first year on mine.

If you continue to have problems keep pushing for a replacement vehicle.

Telcoman

As far as the lemon law they are past the limit if safety related and at the limit for most everything else.

As far as picking it up they did do that, which resulted in the damage to the mud guards. I will most likely personally pick it up on Wednesday and with my clear title since I paid cash for it take it directly across the freeway to the dealer holding the vette to see what offers they may have. At the type of dealer it is they may be more willing then others, if not then I may sell it privately.

If I had allow them to deliver it on Friday while I was at work like they wanted to, I would have it sitting in my front yard with the damage and would have to figure out how to get it back up there to fix. This way it is already there, since I don't trust them, I'll pick it up.

The only other choice later is to travel an additional 20-30 miles to the next closest dealer.

Perry

[pfarmer]

If those codes were present the first time, I wonder why the BCM wasn't replaced on the first trip... Sounds to me like the first time someone was being lazy. Have to tell you though, haven't seen anything that serious involving your issue over here.

Dealer still hasn't contacted me about it being ready after replacement of the mud guards. Going up tomorrow anyway with my better camera, took pictures last time with phone, and if not ready at that time they will have to just keep the car while I go through the legal channels.

The facts are in this case they have never contacted me by phone, the only contact has been by email.

Since March this will be the 16th day out of service for the same problem.

Perry

Perry

[BrandAidDesignG35]

What's that like 10% of the last four months?

Any word on the Lemon law? You should be entitled to a new vehicle

Good luck Perry

[pfarmer]

What's that like 10% of the last four months?

Any word on the Lemon law? You should be entitled to a new vehicle

Good luck Perry

I am looking into that which really doesn't lock me out of other action which may be as effective if not more so.

Perry

[BrandAidDesignG35]

Was that a long way to say no?

[tollboothwilley]

That sux Perry.

Sorry to hear of your troubles. You definetly are not the norm when it comes to issues with your G.

I've got 140K miles on my car and have had VERY LITTLE go wrong.

[BrandAidDesignG35]

1+, I think you must have the lemon... You could paint it yellow and put some citrus like texture on the car... Infiniti will find out and you'll be like the Ford owner who had a POS pickup, he painted it lemon yellow and the Ford Corporation filed legal action against HIM!!!

I think Infiniti would have better PR than that. Good luck whatever you choose to do.

[pfarmer]

Was that a long way to say no?

I have looked into the lemon law. There are different criterias for different issues such as safety, etc. I believe it is now at the limit. I have everything documented and so do they and they made a point of stating they fully understood my position and where we were possibly at.

Perry

[pfarmer]

1+, I think you must have the lemon... You could paint it yellow and put some citrus like texture on the car... Infiniti will find out and you'll be like the Ford owner who had a POS pickup, he painted it lemon yellow and the Ford Corporation filed legal action against HIM!!!

I think Infiniti would have better PR than that. Good luck whatever you choose to do.

Tomorrow morning I am visiting the dealer. Since they have not contacted me at all I don't know if they fixed the latest issue with screwing up the mud guards or not. If it has not been fixed it stays and I will then file with the State or go with legal help (or both) whichever seems the best way to go. If fixed will take it and figure out my options. I am bringing a new Nikon with me to take some detailed pictures of its conditon before moving off the lot. I am also going to check the undercarriage closer than the last time to see if some bottom damage may have been done at the same time the mud guards were damaged.

Perry

[pfarmer]

1+, I think you must have the lemon... You could paint it yellow and put some citrus like texture on the car... Infiniti will find out and you'll be like the Ford owner who had a POS pickup, he painted it lemon yellow and the Ford Corporation filed legal action against HIM!!!

I think Infiniti would have better PR than that. Good luck whatever you choose to do.

I got it back today and took a trip with it to Paradise on Mt. Rainier. It seemed to work ok and they had done the mud guard replacement. What I find odd is not at anytime during the last two weeks did they ever call me to let me know what the status was. They emailed me but that was it. But then it gives me some more useful documentation.

If I had taken delivery without inspecting it first I would have gotten the car back with the damaged mud guards.

They were very quiet today when I showed up and created all my invoices for me from the day I bought it along with a summary as requested. The car was detailed and showed that at least some wax was used (white residue). I doubt however that it will go back to Infiniti of Fife. It has been out of service for a total of 16 days since March 18th for the same problem.

For this last visit it was taken in by flatbed on 6-5-2009 after failing to start the day before.

Perry