Car Runs Great At 20* Compared To 15* Timing

[240dreams]

Car is a 89 S13 engine is a Series 1 RB25DET (bone stock). For some odd reason my car runs like crap on stock timing. There's just no power up top and it feels really rough. It makes lots of noise but doesn't really go anywhere. But when I set timing closer to 20* BTDC, it feels much better. It has more power and it comes on a lot smoother up top and down low. I know for a 5spd RB25 stock timing is 15* and for an auto stock timing is 20*. But my engine is a 5spd manual. I'm really stumped with this and I don't want to ruin my motor by running incorrect timing. Has anyone had an issue like his before? Any help is appreciated.

[eh?]

There are issues with some timing lights and RB's. In some cases the timing will read double. So your timing now at 20 may actually be 10.Could possibly be the problem.

Car is a 89 S13 engine is a Series 1 RB25DET (bone stock). For some odd reason my car runs like crap on stock timing. There's just no power up top and it feels really rough. It makes lots of noise but doesn't really go anywhere. But when I set timing closer to 20* BTDC, it feels much better. It has more power and it comes on a lot smoother up top and down low. I know for a 5spd RB25 stock timing is 15* and for an auto stock timing is 20*. But my engine is a 5spd manual. I'm really stumped with this and I don't want to ruin my motor by running incorrect timing. Has anyone had an issue like his before? Any help is appreciated.

[240dreams]

That could possibly be the issue.

I'm using a Snap On timing light and it seems to be working fine though. If I adjust the gun to read +15 degrees, the crank mark will rotate to 0* TDC. So I thinks its calibrated fine. I'll try running double and see what it does. But I might run out of adjustment range with the CAS.

[eh?]

Where are you hooking the lead onto? The loop in the rear or the #1 coil harness?

[Bluefire]

Was the timing belt changed at all?

-Bluefire

[blues14]

my rb20 acts the same way.....but i have a 5spd with auto ecu.

if you can...post a pic of your CAS at 15 and a pic of it a 20....how much room do you have to adjust at 20?

[240dreams]

Yeah. White wire on the #1 coilpack.

Timing belt has not been changed yet. I wanted to get it running good first. Although I don't think that the cams have jumped at all.

I'll post pics of the CAS at 20 in a little bit. What number is on the ECU. Maybe I'm running an auto ECU. I'll see what number mine is also.
Modified by 240dreams at 5:30 PM 5/28/2006

[240dreams]

I just went back out for a quick drive. I don't really want to drive too much b/c of my lack of fans. But I noticed that at 15*,17*, and 20* my car felt slow. It honestly felt more sluggish than a stock KA. So in desperation, I rotated the CAS completely counter clockwise and went for another drive. It felt great - like a 6 cylinder turbo should. Albeit it wasn't too smooth due to some preignition misfires but it actually felt fast and it knocked my head into the seat. None of this occured at close to stock timing. I think "eh?" may be right with my timing being doubled or something b/c I know for that this motor should feel faster than it has been lately. I'll have to wait to get some fans on before I got out for joy rides again. I don't think I've been doing my engine any good running w/o fans.

[Carl H]

is your neutral postion sensor hooked up?if not it will cause timing to be 5 degrees advanced and therefor set base timing off by +5 degrees, so when its reading 15 its really 10...

[240dreams]

The car was originally a automatic converted to a 5spd. So I'm really not sure if the neutral switch was hooked up or not. Is there any way to check if it is? If I'm not mistaken, the switch is on the trans but where does it lead to?

Edit, I think I answered my own question.I looked at the a ECU pinout and the NPS is terminal 44 on the ECU. The connector on the RB harness is unplugged. It looks like the connector is A-17. Thats the same connector for the injector power source - gray wire (AF81). I do have the little brown box thing that plugs into this connector. I thought it was useless but I guess it doesn't hurt to try it.
Modified by 240dreams at 12:16 AM 5/29/2006

[240dreams]

I just realized that I'm wrong. Connector A-17 doesn't have another connector to plug into. As of right now, its open. I traced terminal #44 (Neutral Switch) to the connector. And from what I can see, the Green/Orange wire leads to nothing. Therefore, I believe that my neutral switch is not connected. Am I supposed to hard wire the Green/Orange wire into the trans neutral switch? I know the switch only has 2 wires going to it. One probably for ground (most likely black) and the other for signal or power. Should I splice the Green/Orange wire into the signal wire for the switch?

[240dreams]

Can anyone confirm that this is in fact a Series 1 RB25det MANUAL Ecu?

[blues14]

hey carl h, my friends did my manual swap , so maybe they didnt connect my nps. so if my car has little power at 15* but good power at 20*, then i can assume i am actually running 15* at 20, so if I advance to 25*, i would be running the 20* my auto ecu needs? obviously not the way to do it, but isnt engine timing relative as in as long as you are not detonating, and your A/F ratios are in check, does the degree actually matter?

[240dreams]

Just got back from a quick drive. I connected the NPS to the ECU now and I set my base timing to 20*. The car felt great. Aside from a few hiccups, I'm pretty happy.

[Bluefire]

TJ is a series 2 ecu...

-Bluefire

[Vkoslak]

neutral wire is needed?

I ahve mine wired up on my rb20det, however, when I have datascan hooked up to the consult, it never shows me it is neutral on the display.

The datascan does show the timing at 15 during idle.

[fly240]

where did you hook your neutral sensor from and to?....

[Darius]

I converted my auto 97 to manual with the swap and ended up hardwiring the neutral position sensor signal wire to the ECU and powering the switch from the original inhibitor switch plug location by the fuse box. I also powered my reverse switch with the same wire, but do not have working reverse lights. This leads me to believe that I do not have power to the neutral position switch either. I'm thinking of just hardwiring both into ON power from the radio or something. I'm thinking the best install would be to run both directly from the plug near the driver's footwell.

[Imissmyturbo]

I had the same problem with my rb25. I would always put the pickup on the white wire @ #1 coil. It would never read the same as the pfc and it would also jump around. I then moved the pickup to the other wire (ecu trigger for #1) It read dead on and my timing was only 8 degrees. I set it to 15 and the car has never run better.

[Vkoslak]

I went and played around with datascan and neutral wire. Didn't matter if the neutral sensor showed on or off. 15 timing with the tps disconnected. This is for an RB20DET 5 speed btw.