Car pulls in the rain w/ open diff

[Hoffman5982]

I've already explained it to you. More than once. Simple enough for a 4 year old to understand. This thread needs to be killed with fire.

[pj]

losing traction because it is then spinning slower than the opposite wheel. Is that correct?.

yeah it slows for about a millisecond, but isnt the reason theres traction loss, that comes from a thin layer of water under the tires severing its grip to the pavement.

and trust me, open diff is better in the rain as far as driveability.
limited slip differential isnt a big deal, its not going to keep you from hydroplaning so its a moot point.
locked diff isnt so hot in the rain, it wont cause you to hydoplane but it may make it harder to correct after hitting some water.

[pj]

. This thread needs to be killed with fire.

[pacotaco345]

Wtf how has this thread gone on so long?... And it doesn't pull because you're hydroplaning, it pulls because the wheel you just dropped in the puddle is encountering more drag than the other side. Try wearing heavy boots and dunking the left one in water, and see what foot is harder to lift.

[Mercury_Hg]

I've already explained it to you. More than once. Simple enough for a 4 year old to understand. This thread needs to be killed with fire.

You see what the person one post above you did? That's explaining. What you did was reiterate what I was already saying.

lol basic terms are not "friction, momentum, forces"
think abut it like this, when you are driving, and you hit a large puddle with the right front wheel, your steering wheel as well as car pull to the right (same goes for if it were the oposite side) what happens when the car pulls to that side is this, as the cars momentum is moving in a straight line on 2 tracks (the wheels, left and right side) one track suddenly encounters the puddle (water) this substance momentarily but somwhat drasticaly effects the free forward movement of the track (but only on one side) while the opposing track continues in the forward motion uninhibited by the water.
in a simple manner, wheel hit water, wheel suddenly slows down, other side does not slow down because other side has hit no water and continues causing the "turning" or "pulling" effect you experienced.
this effect is magnified greatly in the front of the car verses the rear because the front wheels can move side to side. when the weight of the car is pulled to the side which has been impeded, the tires in front will natural turn in that direction, if only a minor movement, it translates into a heavy feeling the "pulling"
it really isnt hard to understand, nor hard to figure out. damn man.
if you still have confusion after reading and watching all ive given you, you need to go somewhere else.

So, if I understand you correctly, what you're telling me is that this has f*** to do with both hydroplaning and differentials? Also that's essentially what I said in my last post, so I did figure it out. You have to give me credit.

yeah it slows for about a millisecond, but isnt the reason theres traction loss, that comes from a thin layer of water under the tires severing its grip to the pavement.

and trust me, open diff is better in the rain as far as driveability.
limited slip differential isnt a big deal, its not going to keep you from hydroplaning so its a moot point.
locked diff isnt so hot in the rain, it wont cause you to hydoplane but it may make it harder to correct after hitting some water.

Thanks for being patient with me man.

Wtf how has this thread gone on so long?... And it doesn't pull because you're hydroplaning, it pulls because the wheel you just dropped in the puddle is encountering more drag than the other side. Try wearing heavy boots and dunking the left one in water, and see what foot is harder to lift.

So the original people asking me if I knew what hydroplaning was were stupid as well? I was misled as to the cause of the pulling, which is why I was confused. It didn't make sense that hydroplaning would turn the steering wheel.

ALso inb4 thread lock.

[krash]

If it's so simple, please explain it. In basic terms; friction, momentum, forces, etc.

For arguments sake, lets say that the puddle has a frictional coefficient of 0.

First I'll explain hydroplaning. Hydroplaning occurs when a "layer" of water builds up under the tire. The water is deeper than the actual treads on the tire. Just as you would skip a rock, the faster you are going, the easier it is for this "layer" to form. So if you can imagine this correctly, the faster you go over a puddle, the more prevalent the effect of hydroplaning is.

Now we will talk about the open diff. You are correct in thinking that the open diff transfers power to a wheel that is spinning. Now think about this more. How many times have you completely lost traction in the rear at a high speed? You can imagine that this would happen in the snow, but now we're on to my next point

The area (we'll say length since we're looking at this in one dimension) of the "friction free" surface. Lets say your puddle has a length of 3 feet. You're driving along and you hit it at you're normal speed with your passenger side front wheel, lets say 40mph. The puddle can't be very deep so you would completely hydroplane, but the we're saying that a small layer will build and your coefficient of friction will be 0. So you'll feel a small pull towards that wheel since it has no traction. You pass the puddle with the front wheel, and now the rear wheel is on the puddle, coefficient of friction is 0, but you are also coasting, so the Moment of the force on the wheel (the torque) is negligible. Therefore you may feel a small pull again, but since youre back wheels are fixed and to not turn left and right, its negligible.

also keep in mind you're driving at 40mph. 3 feet is .000568miles (5.68 x 10^-4, since you like it fancy). So youre not on this puddle for very long.

Now, time yourself right and slam on the gas so that the car makes its peak torque while your back wheel is on the puddle and your results will be different. I suggest you try this for experimental purposes and tell us how it goes.

Also, momentum has nothing to do with this and I could go into greater detail and include velocity and acceleration vectors for your forces, but a) I really don't give that much of a s*** and b) I'd probably lose you.

[Mercury_Hg]

If it's so simple, please explain it. In basic terms; friction, momentum, forces, etc.

For arguments sake, lets say that the puddle has a frictional coefficient of 0.

First I'll explain hydroplaning. Hydroplaning occurs when a "layer" of water builds up under the tire. The water is deeper than the actual treads on the tire. Just as you would skip a rock, the faster you are going, the easier it is for this "layer" to form. So if you can imagine this correctly, the faster you go over a puddle, the more prevalent the effect of hydroplaning is.

Now we will talk about the open diff. You are correct in thinking that the open diff transfers power to a wheel that is spinning. Now think about this more. How many times have you completely lost traction in the rear at a high speed? You can imagine that this would happen in the snow, but now we're on to my next point

The area (we'll say length since we're looking at this in one dimension) of the "friction free" surface. Lets say your puddle has a length of 3 feet. You're driving along and you hit it at you're normal speed with your passenger side front wheel, lets say 40mph. The puddle can't be very deep so you would completely hydroplane, but the we're saying that a small layer will build and your coefficient of friction will be 0. So you'll feel a small pull towards that wheel since it has no traction. You pass the puddle with the front wheel, and now the rear wheel is on the puddle, coefficient of friction is 0, but you are also coasting, so the Moment of the force on the wheel (the torque) is negligible. Therefore you may feel a small pull again, but since youre back wheels are fixed and to not turn left and right, its negligible.

also keep in mind you're driving at 40mph. 3 feet is .000568miles (5.68 x 10^-4, since you like it fancy). So youre not on this puddle for very long.

Now, time yourself right and slam on the gas so that the car makes its peak torque while your back wheel is on the puddle and your results will be different. I suggest you try this for experimental purposes and tell us how it goes.

Also, momentum has nothing to do with this and I could go into greater detail and include velocity and acceleration vectors for your forces, but a) I really don't give that much of a s*** and b) I'd probably lose you.

I understand vectors, I've written a ragdoll physics engine before. I wrote one for my ti-83+ for s*** and giggles, ran at like 1/3fps. I do well with math, programming, general scientific principles and concepts. I'm just retarded in some other fundamental way.

Also this doesn't make sense to me, if it's hydroplaning. The "bump" effect seems more likely a cause, which has f*** all to do with my rear wheels, let alone the diff. Which is all I really wanted to know.

[Hoffman5982]

Did you really just tell me that I'm reiterating what you have said? I answered your question, and then you took what I said and turned it into another question. Seriously bro, grow up

[Mercury_Hg]

Did you really just tell me that I'm reiterating what you have said? I answered your question, and then you took what I said and turned it into another question. Seriously bro, grow up

Nice try, but I'm impervious to trolling. 0/10

[Hoffman5982]

lol basic terms are not "friction, momentum, forces"
think abut it like this, when you are driving, and you hit a large puddle with the right front wheel, your steering wheel as well as car pull to the right (same goes for if it were the oposite side) what happens when the car pulls to that side is this, as the cars momentum is moving in a straight line on 2 tracks (the wheels, left and right side) one track suddenly encounters the puddle (water) this substance momentarily but somwhat drasticaly effects the free forward movement of the track (but only on one side) while the opposing track continues in the forward motion uninhibited by the water.
in a simple manner, wheel hit water, wheel suddenly slows down, other side does not slow down because other side has hit no water and continues causing the "turning" or "pulling" effect you experienced.
this effect is magnified greatly in the front of the car verses the rear because the front wheels can move side to side. when the weight of the car is pulled to the side which has been impeded, the tires in front will natural turn in that direction, if only a minor movement, it translates into a heavy feeling the "pulling"
it really isnt hard to understand, nor hard to figure out. damn man.
if you still have confusion after reading and watching all ive given you, you need to go somewhere else.

Me:

The differential controls the rear wheels. When you hit a puddle the force from the water jerks the front wheels, which are the only ones with the ability to turn. When your car pulls it's because of the front wheels, not the rear wheels, and therefore the dif has absolutely nothing to do with it.

You literally just understood PJ and not me when he said the same exact thing as me but was way specific about it. The points in both of those quotes are the same, and you understood the more complicated one over the preschool explanation, and then had the audacity to tell me that I am just reiterating what you have said....

[Mercury_Hg]

You literally just understood PJ and not me when he said the same exact thing as me but was way specific about it. The points in both of those quotes are the same, and you understood the more complicated one over the preschool explanation, and then had the audacity to tell me that I am just reiterating what you have said....

My bad, I was still locked into a hydroplaning context. I was looking at it from the wrong perspective. My apologies man, thanks for helping!

[The_caveman]

. This thread needs to be killed with fire.

[pj]

hoffman ....

[krash]

We were all lying to you. What really is happening is that the centripetal force of your flux capacitor is wrong and thats why youre getting that pull. You need to install a new centrifuge and a 2-way diff and you should be fine.

[pj]

and a bilge pump for that water...oh and id go with a small hadron collider install as well...that'll get you squared away for sure..make you go supah fast like wangan devil car. even across water.
hha ok, im joking. im bored too you know!

[corn322]

Also this doesn't make sense to me, if it's hydroplaning. The "bump" effect seems more likely a cause, which has f*** all to do with my rear wheels, let alone the diff. Which is all I really wanted to know.

Water is many times thicker than air, so it takes a lot more force to move it out of the way. This same force (equal and opposite reaction) pushes back on whatever tires are moving the water. There are now unequal forces on the car, and they will try to rotate the car around its center of mass.