Car Problem, not with the G tho. Need some help guys. :(

[smockers83]

Alright, the kind of car really isn't relevant to this problem. I have determined that there's a leak somewhere in the cooling system only when the car runs and I'm sure soon right after shut down. I'm thinking the water pump because the water pump was replaced before for the same problem. Either way, there's either smoke or steam coming from under the hood and I can't tell which and I'm afraid the engine may be overheating. The problem is that the temp gauge doesn't say it's getting hot and it rises pretty normally but the temp sensor was also replaced at one point . I'm not sure if whatever is coming from under the hood is just leaking coolant burning up somewhere or if the engine is indeed overheating. I don't hear any hissing and I will also mention that the engine when sitting at idle would make a noise like metal hitting metal, not sure if it was engine knock, never heard it before on any engine. But the same sound sometimes continued even after the car was shut off. Not sure if that is relevant but I figured I'd throw that in there just in case. Also, when I pop the hood, I can smell coolant when the car is running which leads me to think that it's burning up somewhere after leaking.

I don't have too much knowledge/experience of engine cooling and what not besides the basics, so I tried to include everything I thought could be relevant. Any input is appreciated.

[smockers83]

I take back the hissing part. I listened carefully tonight and I could hear a very slight hissing sound. Not sure if that's really normal or not.

If it means anything the car is 12 or 13 years old now, a MY 1996.

[tollboothwilley]

You have already determined that it is a hot leak, so i'm assuming you have never seen fluids dripping overnight.

What I would do is let the car idle for 5-10 min, til the temp gauge reads normal conditions. Turn the car off. Let the vehicle sit. You should find fluid dripping SOMEWHERE. It may help to use a piece of cardboard that sits under the engine to locate the position of the leak.

[smockers83]

It's dripping mainly on the passenger side, just not sure where within the cooling system it's leaking from. It also seemed to be dripping a little bit on the driver's side, but the biggest and most noticeable was on the passenger side.

I couldn't really tell where the smoke/steam/whatever it is was coming from, but it was coming from around the engine...didn't seem to have a dedicated source, just all over.

In the morning I'll be checking the fluid level in the radiator. I'm hoping it's not too low, which could indicate overheating, blown gasket, or something. Anyone have any luck with those radiator/cooling system-leak-stopper-in-a-bottle things. I bought one for fixing head gaskets and it says it stops coolant leaks.

I want to put the least money in this as possible because I just spend $2000 on rebuilding the transmission (probably more than what the car's worth) and I only need this car to last about 2 more years.

[infinitidude]

smockers,What kind of car is it just out of spite??????

[smockers83]

96 monte carlo with the 3.4.

[smockers83]

I determined it's a hot leak because it wasn't dripping this morning and when I started the car to check other possibilities, I found the dripping. The day before I commented that someone's coolant was leaking in my condo's parking lot because the snow was all green. Come to find out this morning that it was mine because I was parked there the day before that.

[infinitidude]

can you see what or where it is dripping from right now???

[smockers83]

Nope, it's dark out.

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. When I take a looksie in the morning I will post up on it. The biggest thing today was finally determining the actual problem. I couldn't figure out what was causing it and I originally thought it was burning rubber, like a belt or something, but couldn't really place it and then I saw the coolant dripping today and I was like, "Yep, it smelled like coolant."

[tollboothwilley]

You need to clean the engine bay as much as possible and then do the warm-up test. You must find the location so that we can determine how bad the leak is.

Did you check the oil to make sure you don't have a blown head gasket?

[smockers83]

I will do so.

Should I be able to see it in the oil, the greenness, when I wipe it on a cloth?

Update coming in the morning for the Qs that need answering.

[zozoka1212]

Smokey that is your head gasket. My money is on it.

zozo

[smockers83]

How much would it be to replace the head gasket? Would they have to rebuild the top end? If it's going to cost a significant amount of money, it won't be worth it anymore after having the transmission worked on and I'll just have to sell the transmission and scrap the rest.

Ever since I started driving this car, it has been a major PITA. I want my G back, should have never put it away this winter. The car gods have been trying to tell me something but I guess I haven't figured it out yet. Maybe it was don't put the G away.

[tollboothwilley]

lets hope its not the head gasket

when that went out on my bmw it was 1100 in parts and 1100 in labor

[joe603]

1100 for parts on a head gasket job seems a bit much...I can see the gasket costing 100-200, unless it comes as part of a kit. Even then 400-500 would be about right. The labor...that can change from shop to shop.

If it is the head gasket, it's not the end of the world...1200-1500 job with parts at a dealer. If you do it at a local shop, you might be able to get it done for less than 1k. Your tax refund is right around the corner

**It will be cheaper if the car is older. Those prices are for the G35.

[Sentientbydesign]

Simple solution to find out where it's coming from. Go to the autoparts store and buy a UV dye for cooling systems (not A/C). Clean the engine bay well, then follow the instructions. Once the coolant starts leaking, you'll be able to track it with the UV dye and the little viewing glasses.

[tollboothwilley]

1100 for parts on a head gasket job seems a bit much...I can see the gasket costing 100-200, unless it comes as part of a kit. Even then 400-500 would be about right. The labor...that can change from shop to shop.

The BMW dealer wanted 4500 to do the head gasket job.

This was on a 750iL (E32) so the V12 is a pretty intricate engine with very little space to work in that bay.

[joe603]

Yikes! seems a bit high though...I'd like to see the cost breakdown of the bill....

[Jacko3]

I think your head gasket is going. Depending on the car, it can cost up to $1,000 or more. This is not an unsual price for a head gasket. It all depends on how the engine was designed and positioned during installation. I have seen older cars have their head gasket replaced in 3 hours. More modern day cars are a lot more complex and intricate in their design, and thus, require more tools and patience in order to get the job done properly.

Get it replaced as soon as possible or the pistons will seize inside the block and then you will have to get another engine which is more expensive. That the car still runs at all, is probably testament to its engineering. Some cars will quit on you in a heart beat when the head gasket starts to go.

[smockers83]

Alright, here's what I've found.

Took the radiator cap off, put in about half a bottle of premixed coolant into the radiator until it was full.

Checked the oil before startup. The oil level was a touch high but the oil itself looked normal to me. Not sure how oil and coolant mixed together after being inside an engine is supposed to look.

Started it up, and it started dripping. Between 1-2 drips/sec. Still haven't found the leak. It's not the water pump, I've ruled that out as I don't see anything dripping on the side of the engine, or really the front of it (FWD, transversely mounted). Nor is it coming from the radiator or the hose between the engine-radiator. I have localized the drip though, it's coming from the center, but it looks like it has been dripping a little bit on the passenger's side. Not sure if that's from driving or if it just wasn't leaking there this time. I can't tell where it could be from because the engine bay is so packed with crap with it being FWD.

Any advice on using those coolant leak additives. I already bought one for head gaskets that says it's for coolant leaks.

From what I've read, a symptom of a blown gasket is a rough running engine. The engine doesn't run roughly and it idles well.

edit in re: to jacko. If it's going to be that much, I'm going to scrap the car. I just put down $2000 on its transmission which was more than the car is worth.

[Sentientbydesign]

The stop leak additives are a temporary POS. If you're talking about the UV additive, just follow my directions from earlier.

As for what contaminated oil looks like...hehehe. Looks like greasy, pasty, chocolate milk. I think early signs will show on the oil cap, eventually the resevoir can get full of it too.

Here's a picture of an extreme case (kind of yellow compared to what I've seen)

[smockers83]

The stop leak additives are a temporary POS.

Well that's all I want and need. Either this car lasts me through the winter and gets scrapped or it lasts for another 2 years and gets scrapped or it gets scrapped soon. This car is not worth doing any major repairs anymore, so POS's is what it's going to get cuz that's what it has been to me.

Anyway, the Bar's Leak Head Gasket Fixer stopped the leak as far as I can tell. Within 10 minutes of the car running the dripping slowed significantly. I then drove it around for 30 minutes or so and stopped halfway to check on it, no dripping. It's still smoking a little but less. I've concluded that it must be coolant burning up on the outside on the driver's side, because the smoke smells sweet like coolant (yeah, I smelled it). The smoke or whatever it was used to come from all over the engine bay but now localized to the driver's side so I'm guessing the rest of it is just finishing burning off.

I read of instances where the gasket sealant seals up the heater core but mine's still working, so that's good, too.

Hopefully this is the end of this.

Oh, and the oil looked nothing like that nor did the cap. Looked very normal.

[telcoman]

Smokey that is your head gasket. My money is on it.

zozo

+1

I agree!

Perhaps a compression check will confirm the leaking head gasket?

The other test would be to place the cooling system under pressure to force the leak to identify the location.

Telcoman

[Jacko3]

Smockers:

Sorry about the price. My little nissan's transmission, used, cost between $300 - $350. And the little nissan has been hauling a$$ all month long. I think she deserves a new transmission. She will be getting another Castrol 20W-50 oil change at the end of the month, for being a good girl. Last oil change was in December 2008. The fresher the oil, the longer she will last.

[smockers83]

Well, it's no longer leaking, or at least dripping coolant, but the smoke is still there.

Since I just had the transmission redone and it hasn't been leaking, I took a look at the transmission dipstick and it's halfway betwix "full" and "time to add more". Could this be the culprit because I'm pretty sure the source is coming from the driver's side where the output of the engine is at? If it is, I can take it back and have whatever is going on looked at and repaired for free under warranty, which would be fantastic...get's my monies worth from that repair.

What does transmission fluid smell like and what could it smell like if it were getting burned up?

[tollboothwilley]

You should take it back if its low on fluid and make them check.

Smoke/overheating/chocolate milk oil are all symptoms of blown head gaskets.

transmission fluid is unlike coolant, coolant smells sweet and distinct. transmission fluid will normally smell similar to regular oil, unless its burning. Then it smells kinda like burning brakes.

[smockers83]

I don't think I'm overheating because I can stick my hand pretty close to the engine and keep it there, plus the temp gauge doesn't indicate overheating (indicates normal temps). The fans kick in, too, like normal. I know it's all based on the coolant temp but if coolant is flowing and it's temp is normal, I can't be overheating can I? I mean if it weren't flowing, the temp gauge would probably indicate the engine not warming up at all, correct? I didn't notice anything weird about the oil when I took the dipstick out.

I'm second guessing the smell I smell is not coolant...I'm getting someone else to smell it to see if they can determine what it is.

So my only symptom right now is smoke, most likely only on the driver's side. The transmission is an assumption because I didn't check the dipstick when I got it back, just assumed it was filled. I feel like this thread is turning into a House episode.

Thanks guys. I know I'm probably bouncing off too many ideas/possibilities, I may even be in denial because I really don't want it to be a head gasket.

[smockers83]

Remember that Vehix commercial where the guy proposes to have the website have smells so people can smell the car? Yeah, I need that so I can have you guys smell it.

[pfarmer]

Alright, the kind of car really isn't relevant to this problem. I have determined that there's a leak somewhere in the cooling system only when the car runs and I'm sure soon right after shut down.

It looks like you slowed it down using Bars Leak. This probably eliminates the seal on the water pump and most likely a head gasket.

It sounds like a leak that is occuring (from the way you describe it) due to the water heating up after shutdown when you no longer have the benefit of flow caused by the water pump.

If it was a head gasket then what I have typically ran into is either you are getting water into the oil or while the car is running you end up with high pressure in the water side system caused by combustion gases leaking from the higher pressure combustion cycle into the lower pressure cooling cycle. If leaking into the oil the oil will take on a milky look often easy to spot on the dipstick or the underside of the oil fill cap. Coolant leaking into the combustion cycle will often cause the car to put out steam into the exhaust.

If from the water pump you can end up with two situations depending on the design of the water pump. One is where during normal operation it can actually suck air into the coolant system, at shut down when the pressure in the coolant system increases it can then leak coolant out the same seal.

If you are seeing a level rise or overflowing in the overflow tank then you may be seeing a water pump leak or a small head gasket leak. Another possibility in this case is a leak on the suction side of the water pump such as the hose.

Don't necessarily trust the temperature gauge since I have seen normal operating temps on an engine that is obviously hot due to the temp gauge not having coolant even in contact with it. If in doubt use another method of getting a temperature reading (steal your wifes candy thermometer for example). If the water pump was replaced did they also replace any hoses? How does the hose on the suction side feel, is it easy to collapse?

Perry

[smockers83]

It's not the H2O pump, I've ruled that out. I don't know if I can tell if the exhaust is putting out steam or not when it's cold outside...exhaust when it's cold outside is always white. I don't think that's a possibility, coolant getting into the combustion cycle because that doesn't explain the smoke/steam/whatever coming from the engine bay, at least to me it doesn't.

It starts to smoke/steam/whatever after the car has been running for about 10 minutes or longer, once the engine has had a chance to warm up.

Don't necessarily trust the temperature gauge since I have seen normal operating temps on an engine that is obviously hot due to the temp gauge not having coolant even in contact with it. If in doubt use another method of getting a temperature reading (steal your wifes candy thermometer for example). If the water pump was replaced did they also replace any hoses? How does the hose on the suction side feel, is it easy to collapse?

That's what I'm worried about with the temp gauge, is that it's getting a false reading due to possible low flow or something. I can't get my wife's thermo because well I'm not not married. The only thermo I have is one of those two pronged meat ones and it's not even mine. I guess I could try that, touch it to the engine itself.

Ugh, I hate this car! I really do, I want my G back. American cars after 10 years old are complete crap, or maybe it's just because the rest of my family doesn't partake in preventative maintenance except oil changes.