Car is using oil but doesn't really signs of smoking.

[NISMO24096]

Ok guys, I reciently picked up another 240sx, this one is a 1993 coupe.I have had the motor rebuild and installed forged internals. cp pistons and eagle rods, replaced all the bearings with king bearings and replaced the oil pump, and timing chain parts with oem nissan components, the problem is after all this has been done and after doing a proper breakin of the motor, I am showing a loss of about 1/2 a quart of oil every 500 miles..the shop that completed the work is being a complet @ss and not wanting to stand behind his work stating that the oil usage is due to me using forged pistons.... by the way the car was bored .20 over, now I know im not the smartest cookie out there sometimes but please there is no way in hell that a car should use 1/2 a quart in 500 miles and be considered normal...

any help from you guys in figuring out the true cause of this would be greatly welcomed...

things that I have considered are as follows... 1) Jack @ss didnt gap the rings properly....2) Dumb @ss didn't stagger the rings properly...3 Stupid @ss let another Lazy @ss bore the cylinders out improply4) Slack @ss let another Silly @ss person do a crappy job on the head and its leaking from the valve guides.

Sorry for the long post but its kinda good therapy for me to write this down...

anyways as stated before if there is smoke its not real noticable. and there arnt any visable leakes on the motor...

[1KleenS13]

Tell us how you really feel I would do a Leak Down test, not a compression test. Try to find out if its leaking through the rings or valve guides. Also TRASH the guy who put the thing together for you

[NISMO24096]

Yeah I'm going to have another shop do a full leakdown test for me because this guy told me he did one and every cylinder was within the allowed 10% range... I call BS that he even did the damn test...and trust me THERE IS NO WAY I CAN EXPRESS HOW I REALLY FEEL!!!! But yeah I have filed a report with the BBB and will most likely end up going to small claimes court over this...and if nothing else I will be sure to tell everyone in florida to never ever go to his shop....

[NISMO24096]

hey I also had someone tell me that if the crank was too tight. it could cause excessive heat and actually vaporize the oil...kinda out there but is this in any way true?? at this point im trying to look at all the options seeings there is no telling what this guy could have done wrong to my motor....thanks again for all input.....

[driftneil]

What kind of rings did you use...File fit, or pre sized?

[NISMO24096]

The rings used came with the CP pistons, she shop said that he gaped the rings...so im guessing that he filed them to fit. but at this point im really not sure...I do know that the machine shop that did the boring of the cylinders didnt put the rings on the pistons and the guy at the shop did it...

[liquid_cool]

how long of a break in period have you gone throu..like miles500..1000..1500..2000?..and were the pistons .20 over like the bore?..allso..was the headgasket .20 allso..did ya have the valve seals replaced too and guides?...lots of info needed...if you only ran her for 500 miles..you might still be in a break in period depending on the type of ring used..standard steel rings seat faster than cromolly rings..please update when possible...good luck.

[NISMO24096]

well im pretty sure im well past the break in period, Its got right at 5000 miles on the motor now...and I sent the pistons off with the block so I hope they got that right...and the head gasket was for a .20 bore..also..I plan on having someone else do a full leak down on it soon... and as far as the head goes the machine shop said they had to replace 3 guides and were susposed to do all the seals while it was at the shop. I know I did have to have the shop send it back to them twice because it still looked dirty to me.

Question if I did have bad valve seals or a bad guide, it would smoke enough for me to see if I since im losing around a quart of oil every 1000 miles ... right, thanks again for the help guys....its a real shame that you cant get dicent work done anymore really no pride in workmanship nowdays....

[liquid_cool]

i want ya to look at one last thing please and get back as fast as possible........pop the radiator cap and look in the radiator..if it looks brown and muddy..or shows sighns of oil.. then we know where the oil is going...if this is the case..then its a head gasket issue and you should take it back for them to rework the motor...let me know what ya find.

[NISMO24096]

well not really oily looking but a little milky, I mean its not bright bright neon green like it should be, but if figured that was due to the radiator needing to be replaced, its got alot of white scaly **** on the coils... So if you think its the head gasket would there not be more of a smoke show? and maybe I just need to have the head retorked down, we did use ARP head bolts and I have read it both ways that you do and dont need to retork them after breakin....anyways thanks and keep that advice comming, as it stands right now the car does want to overheat but like i said i figured it was due to the radiator needing to be replaced, i had to use a junkyard radiator at the last min, due to the orinanal one being bad...

[NISMO24096]

ok I seem to be burning oil after it sits for a while at idle. and someone told me that it seems to happen under full throddle while shifting gears, this i cant verify but the smoke comming off idle i have seem, my question is could valve guides or seals really cause you to use a quart of oil ever 1000 miles. or do you think its rings...last time I did a compression check I was between175-180 across the board..thanks for the help...

[PyR0NiAk]

Wanting to overheat and 1/2 court of oil in less than 1000 miles sounds like a head gasket to me... Only because I've owned 2 cars that had blown head gaskets. One of which I purchased for $300

[rogoman]

A good way to test for oil burning is to first fully warm up the motor.Stand behind the car. Have someone rev the motor to around 4,000 RPM and hold at that RPM for about 15 seconds. If you see a lot of blue smoke come out of the tailpipe, the motor is burning excessive oil.

[Cone Junky]

Actaully 1 quart every 1000 miles is considered acceptable/normal for a lot of manufacturers. I wouldn't expect it on a new motor, but it may be hard to prove fault.What viscosity oil are you using? I built my motor but I had the machine shop do all the balancing, boring, and polishing. He recommends only using 30w because he built it loose. I have only put about 600 miles on it and changed the oil twice already (long story), so I haven't been able to monitor oil consumption yet though.

Like mentioned, you need to have a proper leak down test done to see what's actually going on. Valve stem seals will smoke on start up and running but usually don't leak a large enough quantity to diminish the oil level.There is also the chance of running overly rich and washing down the cylinder walls and thinning the oil. I would think you would notice a driveability issue if that were the case.

[guyaverage]

my question is could valve guides or seals really cause you to use a quart of oil ever 1000 miles..

Absolutely. I went from a quart every 700-800 miles or so, down to almost none between oil changes, after I did nothing more than change my valve seals. This was at around 120k miles or so.

[NISMO24096]

well the overheating issue has been resolved, it was a loose fitting on a heater hose so every time the car cooled it suxed in air. in other words i always got air into the system.. yeah I might have to go with staight 30 weight on my next oil change, but the head was susposed to have been gone through and new seals put in and they told me they had to replace three guides.. and as far as seeing blue smoke at 4000 not really unless the car has sat at idle for a while and then its a burst of smoke a couple of times as you rev it hard... right now the oil im running is 10w 30, thanks for the help guys keep those responses comming...

[Cone Junky]

I cooked a vlave stem seal on my rebuilt motor. The exhaust valve was staying open and ended up overheating the valve. I fixed the valve sealing, but the seal was already shot. I think the machine shop is liable for not properly measuring stem length, but I can't count on him to do any warranty work. I ended up just swapping on a stock head until I figure out what I'm going to do.In other words, I know how much it sucks to spend a bunch of time building a new motor to have somthing out of your power fail on you.

[NISMO24096]

Yeah Cone Junky its a real shame now days that there is no pride put into the work people do...everyone is just out for a cheap buck, the hell with the quality of their work or there reputation... But as it stands right now im just gonna keep a close eye on the oil levels and drive the car and try to enjoy it...I will figure out what the problem is soon hopefully and get her fixed by someone who cares....

[NISMO24096]

Ok new update, I let the car warm up completly and blocked the gas pedel to run the car at 4000 and yeah i get a good amount of blue smoke out of the exhaust...so im guessing this is bad rings or valve seals. which one do you guys think it is... Im gonna do another compression test soon but I konw i can have good compression and still have blowby..if he failed to stagger the rings correctly...or do you think I just have really bad valve seals..

[guyaverage]

New valve seals will cost less than $35 and 3-5 hours of your time if you do it yourself. Bite the bullet and do it.

[NISMO24096]

Do you think thats what it is, even when it smokes when I hold the car at 4000 rpms, I thought valve seals really only showed smoke at right off idle, really Im hopeing its seals not rings, because thats the easiest of the two...

[Vegascorbin]

Sorry to hear of your troubles.

Yet another reasion why I advocate doing your own engine work. It is not that hard and then you know what was done and how. Find a good machine shop for that work and do the rest yourself.

One way to find a good machine shop is go to your local race track (circle or drag) and ask the racers who does their work. You will sone start hearing a couple of names over and over. Racers don't put up with shoddy workmanship.

Try the valve seals. If that doen't fix it, then get a new set of rings and bearings and re-do the motor yourself. It should not need any machine work with only 5000 miles on it. Just run a hone through the cylinders to clean them up and your good to go.

[NISMO24096]

Thanks, I will try and schedule some time off to make the nessary repairs to the car, this is my daily driver so I can't just tear it down...so as it stands I'm going to just keep an eye on the oil level and continue to spread the word about the shop that did the work, maybe I can save someone else the headache....I'm going through...

[Cone Junky]

I think the best thing to do is pay a shop to do a total leak down test. They should do wet and dry leak down and compression tests and document everything. You'll not only know exactly where the problem is, you may have documented results that prove where the liability is. If the engine shop still doesn't want to work with you, you'll at least know what direction to plan for.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[NISMO24096]

good advice, that was kinda what I was thinking, find out for sure what it is and also have some proof on paper it this has to go to small claims court or anything like that...I will keep you all posted on what happens...