Cant Afford an lsd!..here is a simple solution!

[liquid_cool]

No its not welding your diff!.....for those who dont know..there is a dirty little (no to low) maintincance solution racers have been using for years to go the cheep route..... insted of 2k pricy lsd's or the beat on old used up vlsd from some a$$ busted up bucket, we have been using a "phantomgrip"..its simple desighn make it extreemly easy to install..and it works kinda like a helical lsd..or 2way torque sensing..at full throttle its at full lock ..so you get the idea..anyways..during these economic tough times..and to keep us sliders sliding..i thought id throu this info out there...and yes..they make one for every nissan made:) and many other cars..including moms camery!

[Guappone240]

thanks. quick on your head feet.

[liquid_cool]

i was hoping to stir up more discussion about these but no bites yet!..lol

[seang]

Lets discuss these things, please. What the hell are they? I googled it and came up emptyhanded.

[liquid_cool]

tey a standard search "phantomgrip"+"lsd" and it pops rite up...look at it and read a bit and let me know what ya think.

[Guappone240]

I googled it and the site poped right up. They have a tit-torial on how they work. I didn't watch it, but seems to me like better then a weld. i know some people can get welds for free but really this seems like the way if your a budget build like me.

[-RJ-]

Seems pretty cool, I would get it but I already got a J30 diff for 50 bucks =p

[24DSXY1]

It's been discussed many times here. Everyone says to stay away from it and spend the money to get a real lsd or weld your diff. For someone it worked good for a week then broke. It also wears out parts that weren't meant to be worn resulting in the need to spend more to replace. Why spend $349 for the phantom that will crap out when you could spend $374 for an OBX helical lsd(ebay) that will never wear out. I have read all the phantom grip posts on this forum and some on other forums cause I really wanted to get one, but the there's too many negative info to ignore, so I've decided not to get the phantom and go for the OBX helical. OBX lsd is just my .02

[Guappone240]

Good point

[Gabes13]

Ive heard it on ka-t.org and other places, but all I remember hearing was that it was crap.

[Wc240]

i recently recomended this to another user. havent heard back from them yet. ive personally used this product on an old zphantomgrip.comi can say, better than welding as far as daily if your worried about such. i have heard bad stories about them. however, one such storie i was directly involved in, we proved it was due to faulty install. personally, i liked mine and had no issues with it.24DSXY1, what parts wearing out are you referring to? id like to know outa curiosity.

[24DSXY1]

I forgot, but it was stated by another user on this forum. I found it by using the search function on top and I just typed in phantom grip.

[liquid_cool]

i did the search allso..dint come up..i must have spelled it wrong..im notorius for that..lol..everyone i know has never had an issue with them..welded difs cause a shimmy reaction when taking corners..this will act like a true 2 way helical lsd ..but..with no noise like with disc style.

[Seishuku]

Issues with the Phantom Grip:1. It puts excessive pressure on the side gears, which wears out the thrust washers. This is also how it "locks".2. As it slips (giving differential action) it slowly grinds the side gears and bearing surfaces, releasing metal particles into the diff oil.3. Once it's worn out, you need to buy new side gears a new phantom grip, new thrust washers, etc.4. It doesn't lock very hard.5. It's metal on metal friction, at only two places, it doesn't lock very hard at all. That's why clutch LSDs have multiple plates on each sides, more plates = more surface area = better lock!

It's just a bad idea, not worth the price at all, buy a real LSD or weld your open diff. Way less problems in the end.

You can always send out a diff center to get it welded, and you can't tell me that there isn't a weld shop somewhere in your area that can't do it!

Edit:Oh, also I've been daily driving my S12 with a welded diff for a few weeks now, and it's not NEARLY as bad as some people make it out to be.It does clunk and pop as you make turns, which I could see as annoying, but if you know how to drive with it, it's hardly noticeable.The traction gained over an open diff is worth it, IMO. I did my own welding, and the spare diff was free, so it's all free. Free is good.

[liquid_cool]

so your saying it wastes over time?....can ya show us some pics of stories of this happening..couse ive never heard of that ..unless there is actual writeups in a mag or such of a bad product type thing..then i cant say its a s***ty product..so no evidence so far for the claims of it destroying diffs.

[Seishuku]

I don't personally know of anyone that actually destroyed a diff, but common sense and engineering sense tells me that it will eventually happen.

Metal on metal wear only means that something will fail sooner or later. It's why no body uses them, because racers know it won't work as well or at all like a real LSD.

And the metal particles aren't such a big deal with RWD cars, but I wouldn't dare put one in a FWD transaxle that shares oil with the diff.

I wouldn't say it's a bad product, because it DOES work somewhat, but it's no replacement for an LSD and welding is always cheaper.

For the price, you can get a knock-off LSD that will last way longer than the Phantom Grip, and you would be way more satisfied with the results as well.

[ars13]

I have seen quite a few people use the phantom grip "lsd," but they were in front wheel drive cars. I understand the purpose of the original post, but in my years of being around nissans, I have yet to see anything beat a j30 dollar for dollar.

[The Stig]

It's been discussed many times here. Everyone says to stay away from it and spend the money to get a real lsd or weld your diff. For someone it worked good for a week then broke. It also wears out parts that weren't meant to be worn resulting in the need to spend more to replace. Why spend $349 for the phantom that will crap out when you could spend $374 for an OBX helical lsd(ebay) that will never wear out. I have read all the phantom grip posts on this forum and some on other forums cause I really wanted to get one, but the there's too many negative info to ignore, so I've decided not to get the phantom and go for the OBX helical. OBX lsd is just my .02

From what I've read the OBX helical on ebay is acutally pretty good. There are some wave springs in the middle that can be replaced with some new parts from McMaster Carr and the LSD will work beautifully.

[liquid_cool]

bunta..i mean the stig..love the avatar..lol..im glad ive got the discussion going on this..i wanted to throu this out there for the members to poke and reaserch...its true there bennificial for front wheel drive cars..the difference in performance out of a corner is amazing..specally for cars that donot have a aftermarket parts maker slinging lsd's out the door for ....my geo metro has one installd and i have no issues as of yet..(the metro is not normal) its slightly modifyed allso....for a nissan..maybe its a bad plan since the OBX brand everyone seems to agree on is decent..maybe we can all get a sticky on what ebay items will actually work as some have mixed feelings for them..as for the Phantomgrip...i still think its an ecellent product for what it does..for (off make) vehicles with limited or no aftermarket support.

[Wc240]

im still wanting to here the first hand horror stories.

[liquid_cool]

im still wanting to here the first hand horror stories.

me too..lol..i use one..but have no issues..im only hearing the "My friend says" and the " i read somewhere" testemony's.

[24DSXY1]

From what I've read the OBX helical on ebay is acutally pretty good. There are some wave springs in the middle that can be replaced with some new parts from McMaster Carr and the LSD will work beautifully.

So if the wave springs are not replaced, the obx lsd won't work well?? Can these wave springs be purchased from another auto parts shop like Napa or car quest, cause there's no McMaster Carr on the island I'm on??

[sorrowfulkiller]

So if the wave springs are not replaced, the obx lsd won't work well?? Can these wave springs be purchased from another auto parts shop like Napa or car quest, cause there's no McMaster Carr on the island I'm on??

+1 this would be useful to know before I buy everything else for my build

[ttyner1212]

i had never heard of these and when you posted it sounded good to me but after other replys i am thinking about just saving and getting a good lsd

[liquid_cool]

where's the beef man!..thats what a few are asking..where is the proof they are s***ty?..i havent seen any..same with some Ebay stuff..no actuall evidence its bad..just some "my friend says" or "I read that it was"..all the negative post's here say its a pile..but i USE one..and i have yet..(out of 2 years of using it) ever had an issue.

[Wc240]

^^^^my thoughts are the same. im wanting to hear first hand experience. used min for 8 months problem free but sold the car.2 years no s*** huh. sounds to be atleast a decent product. when i see peaple run through 5 j30 diffs in 7 months

[240SXCL]

I personally would agree that this Phantom Grip is a POS. Sure the thought is there but in reality its just another way for people to get ur money. Why not do it right the first time around and get a good mechanical LSD and save some time. Just add some friction modifier into a VLSD and it should work pretty good. Best bang for the buck.

It's like i've told people before. You really have to have the money to play with a FR car. Especially the 240sx. Its a demanding platform if you want performance out of it and even more true should you decide to drift the car. I've spent over 5.5k on my S13 that I got from a friend for free and I have yet to even touch the engine. Its running a stock KA24E and I can get this sucker to slide without any effort at all with the Tomei 2-way. It cost me a grand for it but yea it was worth it.

I think the real problem with people is that a lot of u guys out there arent mechanically skilled so you dont want to have to buy and have the part installed by a shop. Thats the real problem, especially with 85+ an hour labor these days. I wouldn't want to pay

Last I checked at Nissan, a Nismo LSD was 700 bucks. Thats not bad for something designed to work for our cars with no side effects.

Should you decide to buy a real LSD, I suggest getting a Tomei LSD. Locks up instantly when u push it.

If money really is an issue and you cant afford to get a good diff, the J30 is probably going to be ur best bet but you can never really know whats its like to drift with a real 2-way.

VLSD's are ok but a 2-way is a lot more fun when ur out on DD. Just my 2 cents.

[Wc240]

this is a decent option for peaple on a budget. it beats welding, and this is technically a mechanical lsd due to how it works.What else are you gonna do with your open? friction modifier isnt gonna do jack in a VLSD, its a sealed unit. you are right though, this is no comparison to buying a top dollar lsd. but niether is welding or running an open.personally, im savin for the nismo unit. been in a car with it and i loved it, decent price, and adjustable.Not wanting to buy and pay a shop? theres more labor involved with this than an actual lsd. and a FR car shouldnt be much diferent on the wallet than a ff, and should be less than MR or AWDAlso, VLSD sucks. talk to any of the hundreds of peaple that go through one each track event. there better than open, but thats it. if you shim it its great but no telling how long it will last

[liquid_cool]

i dont know much about the VSLD's but from what i here there way to much maint...and i hear there rebuild is a pain too..you have anymore details on that Wc20?

[Wc240]

VLSD is a sealed unit with a viscous unit and i believe(not posotive)nissan uses two discs. the fluid is filled into the chamber under a great deal of pressure. if you look at a viscous chamber, youll see what looks like the top of a silver bb, thats where they fill it. its a check ball. Maintanence is basically the same as an open. The problem with them is they are old, and heat/too much abuse kills em. I've seen em last acouple of autocrosses, but have also seen em go out in two turns. obviously if you drift, its gonna put way more wear on it. Ive heard of peaple shimming them, and ive done it once, wich basically all your doing us upping the preload so it engages sooner/hyperactively. i did it to one that was old and was acting like an open and i got another 4 months of street driving and 1 autocross out of it. You can technically rebuild them. but, last i checked the carrier/viscouse assembly was around 1300 bucks