Can the distrubitor or timing chain be off 1 tooth without notice? (Long)

[Red-KAT]

Hey guys & Gals

I’m just trouble shooting some issues with my car and I have some simple questions.

Can the distributor or timing chain be off 1 tooth without any noticeable affects?

I ask this question because I just recently checked and changed my timing from 13btdc to 18btdc. The car started dieing when I let off the gas above 2500rpm’s and the idle was very high, in the 1300 range. My idle with the TPS unplugged was at 700 and no matter how far I adjusted the idle screw it would not go above 850 or below 700. I checked my timing 3-4 times and it was always at 18btdc but I could not get the car to run correctly. I also had some bad backfiring.

I finely gave up and changed my timing back to 13btdc and the car started to run normal after a day of driving it.

My bro told me I should check to see if the timing chain skipped a tooth or that the dist was on the right spot. But as far as I understood if either of these were off I should have noticed in the last 3 years?

Also if the timing chain and dist are not the problem this would explain my original dyno where I only for 193hp. If my car was at 13btdc I took another 10deg off with the E-Manage at 8psi so my car was running way negative timing.

I did some voltage testing and such on the IACV harness and I’m not sure the ECU is sending the right signals.

Any input into my situation would be great.

Mostly I just want to confirm that I would easily notice if my dist or timing chain were off so I can be sure my timing really is 13btdc.

[JRL]

I have the same problem.

The closer I set my timing to 15 degrees, the closer my idle gets to 700 rpm.

At 20+/- 2 degrees as it recomends in the FSM, my idle will go no lower than 750, although I can get it well above 1000 by adjusting the AIV.

An odd thing I noticed when you look at the base timing map for an S13 KA.

The timing in the 1st square is 15, this is your base timing that your ECU uses when its under no load (idle). At idle, the your ecu access only the first cell on the map.

Once under load, your ecu uses the average of 4 cells. 2 upper cells, and, 2 lower cells. Which your first 4 cells average out to 17.5 degrees....which is exactly where the FSM shows the timing needle in the diagram in the FSM.

So I set my timing just in front of the second to last timing mark and it idles near perfect.

[Red-KAT]

Hmm I did notice with the TPS plugged in the timing would advance about 5-6 deg.

So I wonder if I should set it to 15 on the timing marks and with the TPS in it woulld be around 20...

This is going to drive me nuts... I don't want to be running to much or to little timing for my poor stock engine. I don't know how much margin of error I can get away with at 10psi w/ 92octain.

Would one of those ECU timing readers be better then a timing light? I dont know how to see true timing if I cant depend on what the book tells me...

Guess I'll keep some cash on hand in case the ringlan fairy finds me.

[Jookmasta]

how did u take 10 degrees off with the emanage? i personally have my timing at 13-14 btdc so ur issue may be an issue for me........i use an safc tho instead of emanage. does the car feel unpowerful? any sound of detonation?

[Red-KAT]

I have the ignition harness on my E-Manage... So I just had it -10 (+-1)

Now I have more of a timing map setup. I just have it start to take off at 7psi and do a .5 per psi. so I'm at (-5 at 10psi) (-6 at 11psi) and so on.

I'm not sure how powerful it should feel... Its powerful compared to stock. and above 4k it moves like a bat out of hell.

I guess I should go get a dyno again and see if I'm close to the average power.

BTW if you are not pulling any more timing how many PSI you running at 13btdc?

[Jookmasta]

im running 9 psi currently but my setup is weird. im using an internal wastegate so the rod has two holes on it. the first hole is for 9 psi, the other one makes me hit one bar. so retarding it to 13 or 14 makes it good for me at either level as the timing does get advanced by the ecu when in boost. i know im not running near detonation so i can only hope that everything remains how it is now. i guess the .75 per psi rule applies to me.

[Red-KAT]

Well if we truly are running 13btdc then in theory we could run 14psi...

I guess if this is true timing I could almost do some E-Manage timing advancement up the whole line... I already advanced all my non boost timing to +2

[Bronze MFP]

I was removing my timing chain guides this weekend, when I put everything back together, I accidentially put the distributor back in, one tooth off from the correct timing. When I started the car up, it barely ran. Idled at about 200-300 rpm (my guess) and ran like complete ***. If your distributor was off a tooth, you would definitly know.

[240SicknessX]

underdrive pulley? could those timing marks be off?

how about you bust out the multimeter and back probe the tps while the key is on and tell is the volts at close throttle and WOT.