Can't Decide: Drifting or Autocross

[nissanman04]

I'm done with AutoX. One minute and 30 seconds of driving for a week's worth of prep, a month's worth of pay, and a full day of travel and work? No thanks.

You make $35 a month? Damn.

[Ter240sx]

i only have a LSD. open diff is garbage no matter what your doing. unless you have a 2 way LSD, a VLSD or 1.5 LSD will help in autocross as well power to both wheels. open diff is good for nothing to be honest.

[dana541]

what about driftcross? just show up at autocross and hold her sideways like there is no tomarrow

[hpballer76]

drift

its what the cool kids do

[OMSIN]

Its been a while since I posted on here, any way first things first, have you ever gotten any seat time in an drift or autocross event? If not you should because you don't want to build a dedicated drift car and then go to an event, get seat time only to find that you don't like it. My friend Mitch spent $7000 on building a track car, did a couple of track days, and decided drifting would be more fun.

if I were you I'd build a well rounded car, and attend a couple of drift, autocross, and maybe some track events to find out what your into. Once you know what your actually into then thats when you should build a car for a specific discipline.

[PEZi]

i autocrossed my prelude and went threw a set of tires in a day atleast the fronts haha

i like autocross... 240's aren't bad for it either

[Joe]

Drifting is probably the worst/hardest thing you can do with your car. That being said, it will be the most expensive, as you will eventually break things.

But as stated before, you can do both with the same car.

absolutely not.

its just as hard on a car to grip drive at the limit.

as its been said, there is no real difference between a "drift" and "grip" setup as an amateur. i did double duty with my car for YEARS before i started leaning more to drift.

with no track experience it wont matter how the car is set up anyway because you wont be able to drive it properly (not an attack at you, its just the way it is. experience is needed to actually USE your vehicle). i think you are over thinking and should get out and go. till you understand your car doing modifications will only hurt you anyway.

[SirSilvia]

Yeah you guys are right about my priority: Getting a 240sx first. About doing both: If I throw coilovers and an lsd would that be universal enough to do both? idk hard to explain. (What would i need done in order to do both? - is the better question.)

Because for drifting, the first things I was going to do was put on coilovers and weld the diff. but you can't really autox w/ a welded diff.

Then if I ever wanted to do autox would the coilovers and lsd work just as good? or do I need an open lsd to autox?

I would think adjustable coilovers (almost all are adjustable) and set it to be stiffer for drifting and a little softer for autox. I say this because for drifting you don't need the suspension dampening to try and get as much grip as you would for autox. 1.5 way diff might be okay for both but generally a 2 way or welded diff is best for drifting.

maybe doing all the work to the car, (engine, suspension, brakes, etc) and get a stock open diff and have it welded. so before autox or drift day you can swap the diff back and forth from the 15 way to the welded one. and adjust the dampening of the coilovers before the event as well.

I've done autox and drifting. you will get beat like no other by FWD cars, since they are more capable of pulling out of the turns than RWD. If you want to compete on a pretty even playing feild do drifting.

This is my buddy Dale's first ever time at autox and he beat an old guy in a celica that had major suspension work done. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bH4nllbUag The only thing he had done to his car was some cam work done, high lift cams and such. His Jetta I believe is heavier than the Celica.

I'll look for the post on Beaverun's forum of the track times. I sucked horribly, I pushed my coupe to the limit and couldn't push myself out of the turn as fast as the other could pull themselves out of the turns. Plus My car wanted to drift around the corners which doesn't help your time at all.

suspension because of this video (notice how much the car rolls) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dUW8QaS2E8

And that even with open diff I loss traction a few times. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dUW8QaS2E8 If a FWD car losses it's rear traction, its not that bad, since the front wheel can still keep it pulling away. Whereas on a 240sx, you loss traction and forward progress.

[DrJuice164]

with no track experience it wont matter how the car is set up anyway because you wont be able to drive it properly (not an attack at you, its just the way it is. experience is needed to actually USE your vehicle). i think you are over thinking and should get out and go. till you understand your car doing modifications will only hurt you anyway.

Agreed

Driving a slow car fast > driving a fast car fastIf that makes any sense.

[AZ89two4Tsx]

absolutely not.

its just as hard on a car to grip drive at the limit.

I find that kinda hard to believe/understand. When drifting (or at least when YOU are lol), you're constantly bouncing off the rev limiter, and keeping it at that rpm for quite a long period of time. Also, the strain on your u-joints, and if you have an lsd, the wear on the clutch packs. Not to mention the clutch itself in the transmission from constant clutch kicking.

Am I missing something? If so, please explain.

[SirSilvia]

I find that kinda hard to believe/understand. When drifting (or at least when YOU are lol), you're constantly bouncing off the rev limiter, and keeping it at that rpm for quite a long period of time. Also, the strain on your u-joints, and if you have an lsd, the wear on the clutch packs. Not to mention the clutch itself in the transmission from constant clutch kicking.

Am I missing something? If so, please explain.

autox was a bit harder on my front tires if anything, ate the f*** out of them and the brakes took a beating for sure.

[Joe]

I find that kinda hard to believe/understand. When drifting (or at least when YOU are lol), you're constantly bouncing off the rev limiter, and keeping it at that rpm for quite a long period of time. Also, the strain on your u-joints, and if you have an lsd, the wear on the clutch packs. Not to mention the clutch itself in the transmission from constant clutch kicking.

Am I missing something? If so, please explain.

When grip driving sure you may not be bouncing off the rev limiter the entire time but you are putting just as much stress on the same components.

by no means is drifting easy on a car, but driving hard grip driving causes just as many failures. you are putting just as much load on the suspension, driveline and engine. next time youre at PIR look how many grip racers are broken. its usually more than the drifters (sans the gauntlet a few months ago. 16 our of 18 cars broken has to be some kind of record. jesus even my car broke. )

just because its not at the rev limiter doesnt mean its not under 100% load while being driven.

[Joe]

autox was a bit harder on my front tires if anything, ate the f*** out of them and the brakes took a beating for sure.

if you killed front tires that fast you were understeering too much.

slow down. haha

[SirSilvia]

if you killed front tires that fast you were understeering too much.

slow down. haha

Yeah i felt that, driving slow wasn't helping, worsened my time that much more lol.

[SirSilvia]

Beaverun apparently changed their forums so I can't find those track times.

Another reason I'm going straight drifting, is that (at least in my area) you don't have a bunch of ricers ruining it. bondo-matic primered civic with an ebay turbo kit that was held together with what looked like twist ties. falling apart and over heating. and a dodge stratus riced like no other.

[car nut]

Beaverun apparently changed their forums so I can't find those track times.

Another reason I'm going straight drifting, is that (at least in my area) you don't have a bunch of ricers ruining it. bondo-matic primered civic with an ebay turbo kit that was held together with what looked like twist ties. falling apart and over heating. and a dodge stratus riced like no other.

That's weird, I've never seen a ricer at an autocross. Closest thing I ever saw to one was a bright green civic hatch but it had built motor, stripped interior w/cage and built suspension. Very quick car.

[AZ89two4Tsx]

^ Here you go sir.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bml8DONNSCo

[mudvayne9790]

i think the best thing to do is compile a pro and con list or a con con listlike messes up ur differentail, frequent tire buying, needes replacing brakes of that sort sound good? ehh just trying to help

[SirSilvia]

That's weird, I've never seen a ricer at an autocross. Closest thing I ever saw to one was a bright green civic hatch but it had built motor, stripped interior w/cage and built suspension. Very quick car.

oooooh sir I have pics, trust me. Purple dodge stratus with full body kit, cheap springs and a wing that looks like this if i remember correctly.

(not same design but close)

[car nut]

^ Here you go sir.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bml8DONNSCo

At least there was an R32 at the end.

OP, learn to do both first before you set a car up for either.

[Caveit77777]

So this is the ideal diff?http://www.frsport.com/index.p...=1483or something similar just better quality?

[RustspecS13]

I have a kaaz 2 way in my s13, and its been in two of my s13's. I have over 50K miles on it of street driving and drifting and a few autox's with it and Ive only changed the fluid in it and that's all.

The 2 way is a little aggressive for autox but its far better then an open diff.

Welded is a good option too, but its a myth that its bad to daily. Ive driven my friends hatches with welded diffs in all weather, including a lot of winter miles with no problem. You just have to keep in mind that the rear end is more likely to step out in rain or snow. But my 2 way is the same, just slightly less touchy.

The best thing to do is get decent coils and a locking diff of any kind. Drive the wheels off the car and go to tire shops and get their old tires and stock pile them. Buy nice grip tires in the front for drifting with a matching pair for the rear when you autocross. And maintain the car!!! Its worthless if it doesn't run or you cant beat on it!

The other thing is GET IT ALIGNED!!! It will handle so much better with the toe and camber set. It will be more predictable smoother to drive at the limit.

These basics will get you a very capable car you can do anything with. I drifted and autox's my old s13 on a strut spring combo (which was s*** compared to any coil setup) with my kaaz 2 way. No power mods like a header or catback. It was fun and it ran perfectly and any one can copy it. I put 30K miles on that car and it never broke down on me.

GL modding

~Alex

[hungryjoseph]

absolutely not.

its just as hard on a car to grip drive at the limit.

as its been said, there is no real difference between a "drift" and "grip" setup as an amateur. i did double duty with my car for YEARS before i started leaning more to drift.

I almost agree with you, but this guy is talking about autocross, not a full track day. You have to be a fool to say 4 or 5 runs around a parking lot is going to put the same amount of stress as a full day drift event, which is how most of them are.

[Yasko]

Thanks a bunch for all the info guys. It really helped me out. I think what I'm going to do is drive at both events stock then see which one I like better then make a setup for one. (prob drifting)

[Joe]

Thanks a bunch for all the info guys. It really helped me out. I think what I'm going to do is drive at both events stock then see which one I like better then make a setup for one. (prob drifting)

still kinda missing the point dude. you can easily do both with the same car/setup

both are beneficial to each other

a track background will make you a better driftera drifting background will make you a better track driver.

[Chris28]

I almost agree with you, but this guy is talking about autocross, not a full track day. You have to be a fool to say 4 or 5 runs around a parking lot is going to put the same amount of stress as a full day drift event, which is how most of them are.

In a parking lot autocross, you barely get out of first gear. Lots of high rpms, on and off the throttle, you're bound to hit the limiter a few times. At the track (drifting) I hit the limiter maybe once the whole day, and it's when I'm in a lower gear than I should be. I usually stay around 4-5.5k rpm.

OP, just get coilovers and a VLSD. You can't go wrong with that setup for both drifting and autocross, until you get better that is.

[Yasko]

I will do both stock first. Then I will buy coilovers w/ es bushings. Then I will buy a welded diff until I feel that I'm worthy of a real lsd.

If I do decide to get a 2 way lsd can I still autocross with it? or should i use my open diff insted of the 2 way?

Then after I get my diff figured out I'll probably buy a bucket seat. Then from there I have no clue...

[Chris28]

A VLSD will be your best purchase. It's good for both auto-x and drifting, to an extent.

A welded will make you understeer and just slide while trying to accelerate out of corners. A vlsd will let you slide when you want and accelerate when you want.

That being said, I still don't think you understand that at an amateur level your setup doesn't really matter. Coilovers and a vlsd will help you in any type of spirited driving until you decide which one you want to "choose." At that point you can either stay with the vlsd and go crazy on an autocross setup or you can get a welded and enjoy drifting.

[RustspecS13]

I will do both stock first. Then I will buy coilovers w/ es bushings. Then I will buy a welded diff until I feel that I'm worthy of a real lsd.

If I do decide to get a 2 way lsd can I still autocross with it? or should i use my open diff insted of the 2 way?

Then after I get my diff figured out I'll probably buy a bucket seat. Then from there I have no clue...

Re read my post. I have auto crossed with a open diff and a 2 way. With the open diff it'll spin the inside tire coming out of a corner. The only bad thing about that is its slow. Not really a big deal for a new autoxer though. With the kaaz it was much more responsive to power inputs, but you have to be more aware. Not really a bad thing either since that's why your there.

Also DRIFTING WITH AN OPEN DIFF IS A WASTE OF TIME!!! I did it for about 8 months and it was fun yes. I also had never drifted anything else but my car. I started to want a lot more power since I could never hold a drift like any one else, let alone the other KA's. Then I bought a kaaz 2 way and it was a world of difference. FAR better control of drifts, I could hold them as long as I wanted, and it acted like I thought it should.

A open diff will naturally make you straighten out if your trying to drift. Its very frustrating and after experiencing it I really think its a waste of time, money and tires.

Seriously if you go drifting, just get a welded diff. Even if its a spare that only goes in when you do, its worth it. Even with stock suspension Id get a welded diff.

Summary: Make sure your car doesn't have any loose parts, like ball joints, tie rods or bushings. Then if you want to autox, just go. ANY car can autox and be enjoyable. For drifting just get a welded diff off the bat. VLSD at least but anything that's not an open diff is good.

The next thing you'll want is coils and good summer only tires. Because you'll be sea sick from body roll and your all seasons wont have any grip compared to the other autoxers.

~Alex