Can I expect TSB to be performed under Warranty? (judder)

[eric_c]

Over the last 6 months or so, I've been experiencing brake judder with our 08 Rogue SL AWD. Its very noticeable when decelerating from highway speeds; fairly strong vibration/pulsing when the brakes are applied. Its getting to be quite annoying with what has otherwise been a very reliable vehicle. I finally got tired enough of it to come back to the forum to see if this was a common issue. Doing a search here, I came across this in the list of recalls/TSBs.

NTB09093 - SB 2008-2009 Rogue; Brake Judder

* IF YOU CONFIRM: While braking, especially at highway speeds: the steering wheel shakes AND / OR the body vibrates AND / OR the brake pedal pulsates (also known as "Brake Judder"). ACTIONS: 1. Replace both Front Brake Splash Guard Assemblies (Backing Plates) with the part numbers (P/Ns) listed in the PARTS INFORMATION section below. 2. Inspect the front brake rotors. Determine if resurfacing is possible, or if replacement is necessary. 3. Inspect the front brake pads and front brake caliper hardware. Replace each, as needed only. See this bulletin for further detail.


Can I expect the dealer to address this issue under warranty, or am I going to be out of pocket assuming they have to replace the rotors? The vehicle is still under the 3 year/60km warranty, Canadian vehicle.

[philipa_240sx]

The TSB only applies to specific VIN numbers. I've read the entire bulletin and it only applies to 2009 model year Rogue's as evidenced by the 9W model year code below.

2008-2009 ROGUE; BRAKE JUDDER
APPLIED VEHICLE:2008-2009 Rogue (S35)
APPLIED VINS: Vehicles built before:
JN8AS58T(*)9W 056953
JN8AS58T(*)9W 329943
JN8AS58V(*)9W 450108
APPLIED DATE: Vehicles built before May 29, 2009

Sorry, your 2008 Rogue does not apply to the TSB. You can try taking it to the dealer just the same to see what they say. Generally brakes and rotors are considered wear items and are not warranty items unless there is a defect found.

BTW, my Rogue warped it's front brake rotors at 58,000km. Didn't bother with the dealer although I should have. I replaced them myself. Now I am at 93,000km and it's time for a brake job again.

Honestly, I have always had minor issues with brake rotor warping. Not sure if it's my driving style or what. I think I will swap to ceramic pads (Satisfied Pro Ceramic. available from Partsource) and a new set of rotors to see if it helps.

[philipa_240sx]

Oh, the brake issue mentioned in the TSB appears to be caused by the splash shield... improper cooling, defective part?. The splash shield is replaced with a new part along with a complete front brake replacement (pads & rotors).

[eric_c]

That's what I was thinking; that the warping of the rotors was caused by a design flaw, otherwise why would they instruct the dealer to replace the front splash guard assemblies? And if its a design flaw that caused the rotors to warp, then it should be covered under warranty.

Warped rotors really bug me. The only other car I had with warped rotors was my 1996 Ford Contour SE. I went through 2 sets of rotors at a time in my life when I could scarcely afford it, and each time the problem would return within a couple months. The dealer kept telling me it was the way I drove. I finally tracked the issue down myself, a seized emergency brake cable for which a TSB had been issued. This was causing the rear rotors to overheat and warp. I went to the dealer expecting them to fix the seized cable along with the damage it had caused to the rotors. They essentially told me to take a walk and so did Ford's "Customer Care" My only recourse as a consumer; I will never buy a Ford again.

I'll be a bit miffed if Nissan gives me the same song and dance with the Rogue. We use it to get to/from the cottage, and 80% of its mileage is highway cruising. Yes, we do encounter stop-n-go traffic traffic most Fridays but I would consider this to be normal braking. If the rotors can't handle this then frankly they are undersized for the mass of the vehicle. Our daily drivers are a 350Z and a WRX Sti, both of which get driven much, much harder than our Rogue and neither has ever exhibited the slightest brake judder.

Anyhow, thanks for the quick reply.

Oh, the brake issue mentioned in the TSB appears to be caused by the splash shield... improper cooling, defective part?. The splash shield is replaced with a new part along with a complete front brake replacement (pads & rotors).

[kerrton]

All you can do is ask, be firm but polite and insist that the vehicle was not driven hard and this is a manufacturere defect. In my experience with my dealer, I'd say you have a pretty good shot at having this replaced, or at least cost shared as an "in kind" repair. Nissan is FAR better than any NA manufacturers for warranty claims, which is one of the reasons I purchased a Nissan. Give it a try, go in prepared to back up your position as to why the manufacturer should foot the bill, keep emotions in check and clamly state your case.

If you just look at the header/title for this TSB, it does indicate 2008 to 2009 Rogues, so perhaps they'll perform this as warranty work.

Let us know how it turns out please.

[philipa_240sx]

Our daily drivers are a 350Z and a WRX Sti, both of which get driven much, much harder than our Rogue and neither has ever exhibited the slightest brake judder.

And both of those vehicles have fantastic brakes from the factory.

Honestly, I don't know what the solution is. I went through 4 sets of brake rotors on my Altima due to warpage. I assumed I was far to hard on the brakes... I was using Hawk HPS at the time which are hard on brake rotors.

I'm hoping a different brake pad for the Rogue mitigate some of these warpage issues.

Anyway, there are 2 schools of thought on why brake rotors warp:

1) Excessive heat causes the rotor to warp. This is exacerbated by coming to a hard stop and keeping the brakes applied as the rotor is now unevenly heated/cooled.

2) Excessive heat as above, except it causes a layer of carbides to form on the rotor where the pad was located... and the resulting uneven rotor thickness. Read more in the article from StopTech Brakes:

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_wa ... disk.shtml

[eric_c]

Just got the call. New brakes under warranty! Didn't even have to say a word.