Can a non adjustable internal wastegate be made adjustable?

[Jookmasta]

Just as the thread title states. I really am looking for a DIY solution as my next option is gonna cost 69 bux for a new adjustable internal wastegate. I know you can thread the rod, but where would you find the piece which the rod screws into that attaches to the swingvalve? any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated..............

[Jookmasta]

bump for some insight/help

[turbo98_240sx]

how cheep are you talking? wouldn't that just be a adjustable valve of some sort that is on the line going to the wastegate?

[DammitBobby]

MBC works with internal or external. I am running a TurboSX and it works like it is suppose to and it is easy to install. I would not mess with the rod length. The MBC has another advantage it keeps your wastegate valve closed longer so it will boost faster.

[Jookmasta]

my problem is not using an mbc. i have one of those. the thing is is that my swingvalve is partially open due to the length of the rod and where the hole sits on the rod. So i need to keep the swingvalve shut all the time so that i can spool ALOT quicker. Hence my reason for wanting to make it adjustable.

[foley]

my problem is not using an mbc. i have one of those. the thing is is that my swingvalve is partially open due to the length of the rod and where the hole sits on the rod. So i need to keep the swingvalve shut all the time so that i can spool ALOT quicker. Hence my reason for wanting to make it adjustable.

I'd go junkyard slugging for turbo cars. MANY MANY vehicles have adjustable factory wastegate actuators. Just rob the actuator rod off an adjustable wastegate, thread your actuator, and put the boneyard adjuster on there.

As for making it stay closed longer / open faster, you are probably out of luck with a stock style actuator

edit: found this on ebay while looking for one for my truck:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...sting
Modified by foley at 4:49 PM 4/18/2005

[Jookmasta]

last time i checked, an mbc couldnt decrease boost. im no expert on em but i thought that was the general consensus.

now with the making the swingvalve stay closed longer, i think i have been enlightened by the people at top end performance. so i got on the phone and talked to one of their guys inquiring about an adjustable internal wastegate. i told him the situation and he opened up my eyes to y the other hole on the rod causes the car to hit one bar. To get the other hole onto the swingvalve, i have to pull on the rod with a good amount of force to get the swingvalve into the hole on the rod. This causes the one bar of boost. Unfortunately this does explain the one bar of boost but it still doesnt provide a solution to the lateness of the boost. The guy couldnt really answer that issue and kept babblin about how with the swingvalve partially open, the car wouldnt boost.

Nonetheless bump for some more opinions/thoughts.

BTW, customer service at top end performance isnt all that great. The guy progressively got more pissed as i tried to explain to him why i needed it but i figure it was nearing closing time.

[foley]

last time i checked, an mbc couldnt decrease boost. im no expert on em but i thought that was the general consensus.

now with the making the swingvalve stay closed longer, i think i have been enlightened by the people at top end performance. so i got on the phone and talked to one of their guys inquiring about an adjustable internal wastegate. i told him the situation and he opened up my eyes to y the other hole on the rod causes the car to hit one bar. To get the other hole onto the swingvalve, i have to pull on the rod with a good amount of force to get the swingvalve into the hole on the rod. This causes the one bar of boost. Unfortunately this does explain the one bar of boost but it still doesnt provide a solution to the lateness of the boost. The guy couldnt really answer that issue and kept babblin about how with the swingvalve partially open, the car wouldnt boost.

Nonetheless bump for some more opinions/thoughts.

BTW, customer service at top end performance isnt all that great. The guy progressively got more pissed as i tried to explain to him why i needed it but i figure it was nearing closing time.

Here's how I understand it. Bear in mind, I'm used to working with diesel's boosting 30 - 50 psi. I'm new to this gas motor stuff and may be all wacked out on controlling the smaller amounts of boost.

You're correct, an MBC will not reduce boost. Your stock wastegate is set to open at a set PSI, 1 BAR in your case. You mentioned having two holes in the actuator, what boost does it make with the second hole? I'm gonna go on a limb and guess 3-4 psi?

Now I'm gonna go schoolteacher on you....and I'm not sure how technical you are so this might be boring.

A stock style wastegate actuator is based on a pretty simple spring to open the valve. A spring exterts force based on distance it's deflected... IE, the further you push it, the harder it pushes back. This is a linear deal. 1" of deflection will result in a certain force. 2" of deflection will double the force, as long as you're still in the normal working range of the spring.

Your stock wastegate wants to be completely open at 1 bar. That means that it has to travel it's full length under the force of that 1 bar.

Obviously, at 1/2 bar, it's going to travel 1/2 its total distance, so your wastegate is 1/2 open. At 3/4 bar, it's 3/4 open, etc. These aren't going to be completely consistent, but you get the idea.

Now, here's how an MBC can help you. That valve shouldn't "ramp up" like your stock actuator. It should stay closed (0 psi on your actuator) then hit your desired boost setting (call it 10 psi) and open. Once the MBC opens, it throws all 10 psi at your actuator and slams it wide open. Now it doesn't matter what your stock actuator is set for. It can be set to open at 5 psi, or 4, or whatever. It is never going to see 4 or 5 psi, it is going to see 0 or 10.

So, here's what I'd do.

Get the MBC shown above, and put your wastegate back to it's "low boost" hole.

Install the MBC in the boost line going to the actuator and adjust it to "minimum"

Make a hot lap of your block, and your car should be boosting right at the stock psi.

Now slowly dial up the boost on the MBC till you get it where you want it.

Alternatively, you can make a deal using an air compressor and a pressure regulator to manually dial in your desired boost pressure with the regulator, then use that regulated pressure to adjust the MBC so it opens just right. I had this setup available to me for a while, and it was VERY nice, but it was also in a shop that specialized in turbo work. For your everyday tuner it's probably easier to just fiddle with the MBC settings till you get the desired boost you want.

[WDRacing]

Do you want a real cheap way to raise your boost?? Its easy and works like a champ. I did it to a guys Skyline while I was over in Japan. He to was a cheap sob...lol.

Just bend the wastegate actuator rod a little at a time. After each bend drive the car and see if the boost has gone up yet. Simply repeat until you get the desired boost increase. I wouldn't bend it to much though. You don't want to snap it.

WD

[DRIFTEADOR]

^ I think he's trying to lower the boost

regarding mbc's, from what I understand, a mbc won't help keep the wg shut until your desired boost is reached, not ball & spring or bleeding types. the higher the pressure pushing agaisnt it, the more air that will get through. a ebc, on the other hand, works by measuring the pressure electronically and opening a solenoid only after the preset boost level has been reached.

[Jookmasta]

im trying to quicken the boost response. not raise the boost or lower the boost.......i like the ten pounds, i just want it to get there ALOT quicker aka boost to come on earlier. I know this is possible since when i put it at the one bar setting, boost starts at 2K. right now, the boost starts at 4K. bump for some more help........

[SonyPete]

From what I understand the MBC does help make it so untill exact boost is met the wastegate would be opened. Look at this pic, pic shows that no air gets paste to open the wastegate rod untill boost has pushed it right to the spot where air can go around.

(Ignore Red Arrow)
Modified by SonyPete at 3:41 PM 4/23/2005

[SonyPete]

What is point of two input lines for the wastegate, with or with out, boost controller?

[SonyPete]

Any ideas guys???

Is it to open wastegate,so while the air bounces off closed TB and comes back to air compressure. To reduce stress between the air compressor and the exhuast turbine shaft, by reducing the force of exahust on the turbin. Am I even close with this one

[SonyPete]

None of you guys know anjything about this ?? Guess I will have to ask else where

[AN89HATCH]

I think some one posted an answer for this along time ago on a similar question I had. he told me to adjust the wastegate so the flapper is closed, then put a long spring over the wastegate shaft, with a washer, and get a nut that can thread onto the wastegate. and as you tighten the nut, the spring will also get tighter, which will move the shaft out also moving the inside of the wastegate. I guess this will alow you to change the boot while letting you keep the flaper close which will give yu quick spool.

[DammitBobby]

What is point of two input lines for the wastegate, with or with out, boost controller? In the picture it shows the manual boost controller and it looks like it has 2 inputs but it only has one. The other is the adjustment.

For the wastegate having 2 inputs one is for vacuum line the other is for electronic boost controller. If you use a manual boost controller you will splice it between the the vacuum line and the wastegate.

[SonyPete]

Well from the pic it looks like its getting pressure from the compressor side of the turbo (little mini elbow that most OEM turbos have) AND from the BOV, when it is open.I could be wrong, but that what it looks like to me.I just figured it was to open the wastegate when pressure is just enough or when the BOV is opened when TB closes. Or am I way off

[DRIFTEADOR]

From what I understand the MBC does help make it so untill exact boost is met the wastegate would be opened. Look at this pic, pic shows that no air gets paste to open the wastegate rod untill boost has pushed it right to the spot where air can go around.

(Ignore Red Arrow)

Modified by SonyPete at 3:41 PM 4/23/2005

I guess it's possible but it would require really, really tight tolerances for it to work. the gallery would need to be the exact same size as the ball's diameter and both would need to be perfectly round so that the air doesn't get through.

about the bov, that picture just shows that both the wg and bov are using the same source, the manifold. one opens with positive pressure, and the other with negative. there's only one input line going into the wg.

[SonyPete]

BOV needs source?? Thought the BOV stayed closed untill TB closed then opened up. The little tube on the BOV is more for outputting pressure to where ever.

"one opens with positive pressure, and the other with negative. there's only one input line going into the wg."Thought both open with postive pressure and both of those are inputting into the wastegate, no??

[DRIFTEADOR]

your basic wg:



a bov is basically the same thing except the top port is used as the vac source and there is no side port (labeled compressor reference port). when there's positive pressure it stays closed but when theres is vacuum, like you mentioned, when the tb closes, it pulls the diaphram and allows it to vent to the atmosphere, or recirculate to the intake depending on your setup, through what is labeled as dump above.

[SonyPete]

Okay me understand now Thank You

[240SicknessX]

currently jookmasta on his low boost wg setting is ~9psi and the hi setting is ~14.5. When he has the acuator rod hooked up on the low setting, the wastegate swing valve is opened, purging exhuast gasses with out them going past the turbine, the result is be gets on boost around 4300 rpm. But if he has his wg setting on hi, the swing valve is closed all the way and he will get on boost around 2000 rpm. He wants the 9psi full boost, but wants it to come on at the 2000rpm range like the hi boost charictoristic, but that wont happen becuase of the open swing valve on the low boost setting.

Now jookmasta, if you do find some solution to allowing the swingvalve to be totally closed on the low boost setting........... it will still boost 14.5 psi becuase thats what the internal wastegate spring is set to open at.......... and you will have the same charictoristic as the hi boost. The only way you will be able to achive the 9psi, and get on boost around 2000 rpm is to get a different wastegate acuator with a different internal wastegate spring (less psi\ weaker). what you can do is think about some of the turbo cars that are avalible at the local junkyard, research to find out the stock boost pressure. (hopefully its around 6psi or so) then use the MBC that you have to up the pressure to w\e you desire.

this would be a simalar solution to the adjustable acuator i told you about from atp or a silmalar resource.

AND............... since you are going to have your turbo off this weekend, and if you find a internal wastegate that has a lower stock boost level........ I can remove the mounts or relocate the mounts on your current turbo...... basically make the junkyard internal wastegate acuator work, ill figure something out.

[AN89HATCH]

if you do it like what i posted you can have low boost, with quick spool on an adjustable wastegate

currently jookmasta on his low boost wg setting is ~9psi and the hi setting is ~14.5. When he has the acuator rod hooked up on the low setting, the wastegate swing valve is opened, purging exhuast gasses with out them going past the turbine, the result is be gets on boost around 4300 rpm. But if he has his wg setting on hi, the swing valve is closed all the way and he will get on boost around 2000 rpm. He wants the 9psi full boost, but wants it to come on at the 2000rpm range like the hi boost charictoristic, but that wont happen becuase of the open swing valve on the low boost setting.

Now jookmasta, if you do find some solution to allowing the swingvalve to be totally closed on the low boost setting........... it will still boost 14.5 psi becuase thats what the internal wastegate spring is set to open at.......... and you will have the same charictoristic as the hi boost. The only way you will be able to achive the 9psi, and get on boost around 2000 rpm is to get a different wastegate acuator with a different internal wastegate spring (less psi\ weaker). what you can do is think about some of the turbo cars that are avalible at the local junkyard, research to find out the stock boost pressure. (hopefully its around 6psi or so) then use the MBC that you have to up the pressure to w\e you desire.

this would be a simalar solution to the adjustable acuator i told you about from atp or a silmalar resource.

AND............... since you are going to have your turbo off this weekend, and if you find a internal wastegate that has a lower stock boost level........ I can remove the mounts or relocate the mounts on your current turbo...... basically make the junkyard internal wastegate acuator work, ill figure something out.

[240SicknessX]

i said what i would do on my car... yes you can rig up a spring system and make it work but i dont know that i would want my daily driver. just my personal opinion.