Like the post says, im looking for a good front and rear camber setup for my Z(by setup i mean degrees of negative camber, not the actual arms/parts). Primary use being autocross.
Here is the setup i will be running
-Tokico shocks/struts-Tein S tech springs-Hotchkis Front and rear adj. sways-Dropped about 1.5-2.0 inches-255 40 18 f /265 40 18 r -michlin pilot sport tires (traction AA, temp. A, treadwear 220)
camber specs?? Whats a good front and rear camber for autocross??
Re: camber specs?? Whats a good front and rear camber for autocross?? (redsx13)
You dropped the car, but still haven't swapped front upper control arms?Your still limited to toe up front, camber toe in the rear.
Run toe out up front, 0 toe rear, you'll have more camber now that the car is dropped, but try to take out as much rear as you can, you'll probably still be over 2.0deg.
I can't tell you what to do with the bar as you've changed the springs and shocks. I know I have a cobb bar up front at full stiff.
Personally I'd try the front bar at full stiff, but thats me. A big stiff front bar will be good in the slaloms but create bad understeer in the sweepers unless you can figure out how to rotate the car on corner entry with trailbraking
Run toe out up front, 0 toe rear, you'll have more camber now that the car is dropped, but try to take out as much rear as you can, you'll probably still be over 2.0deg.
I can't tell you what to do with the bar as you've changed the springs and shocks. I know I have a cobb bar up front at full stiff.
Personally I'd try the front bar at full stiff, but thats me. A big stiff front bar will be good in the slaloms but create bad understeer in the sweepers unless you can figure out how to rotate the car on corner entry with trailbraking
Re: camber specs?? Whats a good front and rear ca ... (redsx13)
What are your new spring rates?
I'd pull camber out of the rear, add a little up front. The only true way to see if your camber is set properly is to use a tire pyrometer on the inside, middle and outside of the tire. This will tell you where the tire is being used the most. If your insides are hotter than your outsides, then your running to much camber. The ideal set up will have about the same temp across the tire
I'd pull camber out of the rear, add a little up front. The only true way to see if your camber is set properly is to use a tire pyrometer on the inside, middle and outside of the tire. This will tell you where the tire is being used the most. If your insides are hotter than your outsides, then your running to much camber. The ideal set up will have about the same temp across the tire
Re: camber specs?? Whats a good front and rear ca ... (ldstang50)
O, sry for the confusion,
i will be running adjustable front upper control arms, and adjustable rear lower control arms along with aftermarket toe bolts in the rear.]
my current specs are -1.6 degrees camber up front, -2.0 degrees in the reartow is at factory settings.
i will be running adjustable front upper control arms, and adjustable rear lower control arms along with aftermarket toe bolts in the rear.]
my current specs are -1.6 degrees camber up front, -2.0 degrees in the reartow is at factory settings.
Re: camber specs?? Whats a good front and rear ca ... (ldstang50)
A pyrometer would be ideal, but tire wear is a very good indicator as well.ldstang50 wrote:What are your new spring rates?
I'd pull camber out of the rear, add a little up front. The only true way to see if your camber is set properly is to use a tire pyrometer on the inside, middle and outside of the tire. This will tell you where the tire is being used the most. If your insides are hotter than your outsides, then your running to much camber. The ideal set up will have about the same temp across the tire
currently my rear tires are pretty even, maybe a little too much negative, .2* max. But my front tires confirm your statement, their wearing on the outside... badly.
I think i could run 2.0 up front, 1.7-2.0 rear, 0 toe in the rear and a tiny bit of toe out in the front. How does that sound to you?
But maybe i have it wrong, do you think it could be my sidewalls? maybe my whole tire is rolling over, 255 40 18 sidewalls arent that small. Ive tried running 45-48 psi in my tires to compensate, i think it helped a little.
Re: camber specs?? Whats a good front and rear ca ... (redsx13)
Try adjusting to 2.0, that will surely help with outside wear. How does the tire fit your rim? Square, stretched or over the rim edge? Also, there is a number and letter AFTER your tire size probably like 93W to 99Y. This tells you how stiff the sidewall is. For softer sidewall tires I use higher pressure like you currently are. Softer sidewalls will roll easier too.Whats your car doing in a corner now? Understeering, oversteering? If you tend to push even after your alignment, I'd decrease the setting on your front bar. I'd also pull out camber in the rear. Currently I run -1.8 and wish I could run less. Your toe sounds fine.
Re: camber specs?? Whats a good front and rear ca ... (ldstang50)
currently im running stock sway bars with alignment settings i mentioned above, and the car is very neutral. it has a tiny bit of oversteer, but barely enough to notice. I rather it that way than have understeer.ldstang50 wrote:Try adjusting to 2.0, that will surely help with outside wear. Whats your car doing in a corner now? Understeering, oversteering? If you tend to push even after your alignment, I'd decrease the setting on your front bar. I'd also pull out camber in the rear. Currently I run -1.8 and wish I could run less. Your toe sounds fine.
My question now is, are Anti-sway bars even worth the money? The adjustable Hotchkis's i want are around 340$. But the Z isnt like a 240sx, the stock front sway on a z is already huge. will there be that much improvement over stock? also it was mentioned that stiffer sway bars will effect camber, by limiting the body roll you limit the amount of positive camber due to body roll. i know this is true, but how about some first hand experience, ldstang50? Maybe i dont even need to adjust my front camber.
One thing i didn't mention is that i have front an rear wheel hop due to improper spring rates. either the springs i have aren't properly designed or my aftermarket shocks (not adjustable) arent stiff enough for the springs.
rear wheel hop is only felt when doing a burnout in a straight line, and front wheel hop is only felt when understeering into a corner (when the front wheels are sliding). But under these circumstances, its REALLY bad. the feels like the car is going to fall apart. But since it doesn't happen all the time, i would only be interested in fixing this if it would actually benefit performance.
as you can see, i have a limited amount of money, but alot of places to spend it.
Modified by redsx13 at 11:57 AM 4/7/2009
Re: camber specs?? Whats a good front and rear ca ... (redsx13)
I had my car aligned and sway bar installed before I ran it again. Basically I did 2 things at once. However I know the bar made a huge difference for me.The a runs a double wishbone suspension, so under compresion it actually gains a bit of negative camber unlike a strut style that loses camber. However if you are running a softer sidewall tire, the slight camber you gain will be negated by a soft sidewall tire rolling over.How does your car handle in the slalom? Is it lazy or does it snap back and forth? In sweepers does the car WANT to understeer but you make it oversteer with throttle or does it naturally want to oversteer and your tip toeing the throttle?
A front bar will help in slaloms but hurt you sweepers, but you more adjustable components to compensate for that. A rear bar will make you oversteer more. Running stiffer bars will take some load of your springs. I know in stock class the front is definetely worth it.
Your front hopping is you pushing the car too much, period. Ease up a bit and the car won't understeer as bad and won't hop. My car axle hops on launch too if I walk it out of the hole, but if rip on it hard the tires spin fast enough where they dont' try to get traction and she spins without hopping....good for releasing agression or trying to warm your tires and kick the dirt off.
I actually just pulled up my buddies spec sheet on his SM2 350z. His car isn't crazy fast, but it handles awesome. No understeer at all, oversteer can be provoked with throttle. I jumped in it and without every driving the car prior set FTD.
Tokico D- Spec adjustable shocks Super cheap Hotchkis sway bars, and 1 inch lowering springs (no idea what spring rate) Upper camber arms front -2.7degrees rear -1.2 degrees rear most you can get stock he runs 17s all the way around 275 r compsI have no idea what his bars are set at, probably in the middle, to ease spring work.
The car PLANTS itself in corners and is a weekly contender for FTD.
A front bar will help in slaloms but hurt you sweepers, but you more adjustable components to compensate for that. A rear bar will make you oversteer more. Running stiffer bars will take some load of your springs. I know in stock class the front is definetely worth it.
Your front hopping is you pushing the car too much, period. Ease up a bit and the car won't understeer as bad and won't hop. My car axle hops on launch too if I walk it out of the hole, but if rip on it hard the tires spin fast enough where they dont' try to get traction and she spins without hopping....good for releasing agression or trying to warm your tires and kick the dirt off.
I actually just pulled up my buddies spec sheet on his SM2 350z. His car isn't crazy fast, but it handles awesome. No understeer at all, oversteer can be provoked with throttle. I jumped in it and without every driving the car prior set FTD.
Tokico D- Spec adjustable shocks Super cheap Hotchkis sway bars, and 1 inch lowering springs (no idea what spring rate) Upper camber arms front -2.7degrees rear -1.2 degrees rear most you can get stock he runs 17s all the way around 275 r compsI have no idea what his bars are set at, probably in the middle, to ease spring work.
The car PLANTS itself in corners and is a weekly contender for FTD.
Re: camber specs?? Whats a good front and rear ca ... (ldstang50)
In answer to your question (ldstang50), I don't have to use power to step the rear, a little trail breaking will usually bring it out, and there has been the rare occasion that on high-speed sections (60-70mph) i can sometimes loose the rear mid-turn without any provocation whatsoever. And i have to admit, its a little scary to find yourself in that situation, i have seen alot of novice drivers overcorrect by contersteering too much, and when the back end catches they loose control and bad stuff happens.
With that statement aside, If I where to run sway bars i would run both front and rear, basically stiffening up both the same percentage over stock. I wouldn't want to stiffen up just the front because the car is very neutral, and i don't want under-steer. In slaloms, the car is a bit sloppy, it does roll a little, and a stiffer front bar would help, but i am very happy with my current setup and the way it handles on the track, i just need some more grip, and better tire wear.
Is it possible to have sway bars that are too stiff? A good amount of the tracks that i race are very inconsistent, yes the road is smooth, but there are a lot of off camber turns, up hill/down hill switch backs, and so forth. basically its not like racing a speedway or closed off airstrip its more like rally cross but without the dirt, im worried the stiffer sway bars might slow me down by not allowing me to keep my wheels planted on the ground.
As for the wheel hop, i know there is something wrong. This issue is so bad, i cant even compete in drift events because the car shakes uncontrollably. That's actually the reason i replaced my shocks, I also replaced my lower control arms too.(thought it was the bushings, and bushings are part of the arm).
With that statement aside, If I where to run sway bars i would run both front and rear, basically stiffening up both the same percentage over stock. I wouldn't want to stiffen up just the front because the car is very neutral, and i don't want under-steer. In slaloms, the car is a bit sloppy, it does roll a little, and a stiffer front bar would help, but i am very happy with my current setup and the way it handles on the track, i just need some more grip, and better tire wear.
Is it possible to have sway bars that are too stiff? A good amount of the tracks that i race are very inconsistent, yes the road is smooth, but there are a lot of off camber turns, up hill/down hill switch backs, and so forth. basically its not like racing a speedway or closed off airstrip its more like rally cross but without the dirt, im worried the stiffer sway bars might slow me down by not allowing me to keep my wheels planted on the ground.
As for the wheel hop, i know there is something wrong. This issue is so bad, i cant even compete in drift events because the car shakes uncontrollably. That's actually the reason i replaced my shocks, I also replaced my lower control arms too.(thought it was the bushings, and bushings are part of the arm).