cam caps

Post by **srdub-t** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:11 am

The end of my jwt s4 itake cam broke off ( ) and when this happend it scratched and left a grove on one of the cam caps, do you think i can just use the same cam cap or should i get a new one and from where???

Post by **ILikeMy240sx** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:08 pm

Scroll down for pics of his head.

I believe scorched cam caps is one of the biggest damage you can do to a cylinder head.

When they manufacture a cylinder head, cam caps are line-honed with the head so that they are perfectly circular. Hence, you can't just get new cam caps or cam caps from a different head as puttin them on your head will result in journals that are not perfectly circular. This will result in damaged cam journals down the road.

Depending on how bad the damage is, your machine shop might be able to polish it out. If the damage is really bad, you might need to get a different cam cap and get them line-honed but this process is very expensive and most machine shops dont even have the machine to do them.

Let us see how bad the damage is and then maybe we can determine if you need a new head.
Modified by ILikeMy240sx at 8:46 PM 2/17/2007

Post by **srdub-t** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:51 pm

I emaild you the pics because i dont know how to post them! Thanks

Post by **ILikeMy240sx** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:53 pm

yeah lookd at the pics... Your head looks like its F U C K E D.

sorry... not only is your cam cap damanged, the journal on the head is damaged pretty badly as well. That's not the kind of damage you can simply polish out.

If it makes you feel better, Ive had a cyl head that went through a complete oil starvation and it looked like someone took a 300 grit sand paper to my cam journals. haha.

Post by **srdub-t** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:21 pm

This SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!! What if i just throw the stock cams back in, if it works do you think i will have a big loss in power. The reason im thinking that it might work is because the cam didnt break while the car was on, what happend was i took the oil pressure sencor out to get a fitting and my family moved my car around i guess and it died cause of loss in oil pressure and then they just left it, so when i got to my car i turned the crank pulley and then i felt the cam break but i didnt know what it was so i took of the valve cover and saw what happend. And none of the cam is missing, i have all the peaces so nothing fell into anything?????????? Thanks again for the help

Post by **ILikeMy240sx** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:39 pm

wait... so your family ran the car while the oil pressure switch was out??????????

woah... please tell me thats not so.

With that kind of damage, you can put any cams you want but it will not last long. Not even 1000 miles. I mean thats pretty bad damage. It will ruin any cam you put it in. Also, if your family started the car while oil was shooting out of the block then... I believe you might have bigger problems in your hand.

Post by **ILikeMy240sx** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:45 pm

For those interested in seeing the carnage... I hosted them on my website.

Yeah definitely not the kind of damage you can polish out.

Post by **srdub-t** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:19 am

what kinda damage you talkin bout? From what i was told tha car only ran for like 45 sec

Post by **corey240** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:25 am

how do you have step4 cams and are asking if that bad of damage is usable? that sucks if i were you id check the oil pan for metal and hope you didnt destroy the entire motor.

Post by **ILikeMy240sx** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:58 am

srdub-t wrote:what kinda damage you talkin bout? From what i was told tha car only ran for like 45 sec

Car running for any amount of time without oil is very very very very very bad. It can lead to spun bearings which would require you to rebuild the bottom end. It can also cause cylinder bores to get scratched up. Many things can go wrong.

How did your other cam journals look?

BTW, those are not step 4. they are S4. Not too aggressive lift.

Post by **srdub-t** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:17 am

I doubt that there will be any metal in the oil pan but i will check, the other cam journal looks fine, it has a lil grove but all cam journals do, thats why im thinking i dont have to worry about that, what im worried about is the cam cap ,can i buy one new from nissan for like a 91 nissan sentra ser or can i just use a used one from an ser because i have them laying around for a sentra.

Post by **ILikeMy240sx** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:08 pm

Like I said, even with new cam caps, the surface on your HEAD is farked. This will ruin your cam. Even if your head wasnt farked, youd have to get that cam cap line honed.

Those grooves on your cam caps are for better oil circulation around the cam journals. They are not the same thing as getting your cam journals all grooved up from damage. nonono.

And no you cant just buy a new cam cap as they are made specific to the cylinder head.

Post by **srdub-t** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:09 pm

so what do you suggest i do? im kinda confused about how the cam cap being like that will ruin the cam what if i just sand that **** down?

Post by **ILikeMy240sx** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:46 pm

From the looks of that cam cap, its not something you can just sand down and get it to return to its mirror shiny polish. Surface imperfections like that will ruin cam journals. Even if you get it close to smooth, it will be way out of tolerance since so much material is being taken off.

Not only is your cam cap ruined, the journal surface on your head is scorched up as well. This will also ruin your cam journals.

You really ought to get a new head with that kind of damage.

But, in the end, it is your motor and you are free to do whatever it is that you want. If you really want to just sand that down and sand down the journals on the head then be my guest and do it. I will guarantee you that whatever cam you put in that same spot will be ruined.

Post by **karmakaze** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:44 am

I second that. Your only intelligent option is to get a new head. That one is ruined beyond repair.

Post by **srdub-t** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:13 am

K ill keep you guys posted on what i do. Thanks for the help
Modified by srdub-t at 3:06 PM 2/20/2007

Post by **karmakaze** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:00 pm

while on this subject, how bad do you guys think this is??

Post by **corey240** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 5:18 pm

the first pic doesnt look that bad but the second looks like there a decent indent in thos 2 spots. keep us updated on your oil pan check. im just curious to know if anything showed up.

Post by **karmakaze** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:16 pm

corey240 wrote:the first pic doesnt look that bad but the second looks like there a decent indent in thos 2 spots. keep us updated on your oil pan check. im just curious to know if anything showed up.

thats not an engine that i have been running. it is one that i just bought. and yes, good call, the oil pan looks like ***.

looks like the shop that i bought it from is willing to work it out with me. course of action just depends on if it is repairable or not.

the engine is disassembled and everything else looks fine.

that second picture only has that one indent. the 1st hole on the left is for oil.

Modified by karmakaze at 8:26 PM 2/22/2007
Modified by karmakaze at 8:28 PM 2/22/2007

Post by **ILikeMy240sx** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:07 am

damn... looks like a shard of metal got in the oil galley somewhere and came out of that oil hole on the journal... You can clearly see where the particle left its mark and made that indent.

Id take that to a machine shop and see what they say. I think my machine shop would be able to polish that out but I dont know.... Try taking a 2k grit to it and see if it gets any better.

2k grit works pretty well in polishing metal. I actually tried it with one of my steel valve shims. I sanded the sh it out of it and it only took off about .02mm of material and the bottom looked like a mirror. Im sure with Aluminum, its softer but worth a try. Also try the machine shop as well.

Post by **srdub-t** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:10 am

What are those litlle punches that are there becuase my head has those too, like there markings or something? By the way i decided to by a new head but first i was wondering if you actually think i coulda spun a bearing and whats the best way to check?

Post by **karmakaze** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:44 pm

srdub-t wrote:What are those litle punches that are there becuase my head has those too, like there markings or something? By the way i decided to by a new head but first i was wondering if you actually think i coulda spun a bearing and whats the best way to check?

disassemble the engine. or just check your oilpan. as long as there are no metal flakes you should be ok.

Modified by karmakaze at 2:54 PM 2/23/2007

Post by **karmakaze** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:46 pm

here is what I have after polishing it with 1500 and 2000 grit sand paper.

it all cleaned up except for that groove and the cam cap that is on that journal. guess i will see about returning the head as there isn't anywhere around here that can do a line hone.

Post by **ILikeMy240sx** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:29 am

did you take your head to a machine shop and see if they can do anything to it?

Post by **karmakaze** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:13 am

ILikeMy240sx wrote:did you take your head to a machine shop and see if they can do anything to it?

they recommended a linehone. which, there isn't one anywhere near here.

Post by **ILikeMy240sx** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:23 pm

karmakaze wrote:they recommended a linehone. which, there isn't one anywhere near here.

yea, line honing cam caps is not something alot of machine shops do. Even the one I went to said they couldnt do it. They can do something like main caps for the crank tho.

Sorry to hear. So have you conctacted the seller who sold you that POS head and block?

Post by **karmakaze** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:16 pm

ILikeMy240sx wrote:yea, line honing cam caps is not something alot of machine shops do. Even the one I went to said they couldnt do it. They can do something like main caps for the crank tho.

Sorry to hear. So have you conctacted the seller who sold you that POS head and block?

yes, tech2motorsports is going to pay for me to ship it to a machine shop to have it line honed. A local machine shop refered me to a place in atlanta that does it, however, i have their name writen on a notepad at work.

tech2 has actually been very good to deal with.

Post by **srdub-t** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:58 am

Well im going to pull out my head cuz i took tha other cam out and the journals were farked up. I ordered brian crower 264s and the spring and retainer kit and he gave it all to me for $400 because i told him my situation and he wanted to help me, hes a really cool guy. Also i called up the guy who i bought my motor from and he said hell sell me a new head for $150 cuz i bought hella stuff from him and i take all my freinds to him so thats that. Also i know this shop that does lots of work on sr20s and they said they will install the springs and cams and port and polish my head for $400 but im still debating that because the interest rate on my credit card is almost 19%. Thats were im at right now, but what im worried about is when i pull off my head if i see groovs and what not on my cylinder walls i think id have to shoot myself. O yea i also bought the er rocker arm stoppers there only like 60 bucks.

Post by **karmakaze** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 2:22 pm

srdub-t wrote:Well im going to pull out my head cuz i took tha other cam out and the journals were farked up. I ordered brian crower 264s and the spring and retainer kit and he gave it all to me for $400 because i told him my situation and he wanted to help me, hes a really cool guy. Also i called up the guy who i bought my motor from and he said hell sell me a new head for $150 cuz i bought hella stuff from him and i take all my freinds to him so thats that. Also i know this shop that does lots of work on sr20s and they said they will install the springs and cams and port and polish my head for $400 but im still debating that because the interest rate on my credit card is almost 19%. Thats were im at right now, but what im worried about is when i pull off my head if i see groovs and what not on my cylinder walls i think id have to shoot myself. O yea i also bought the er rocker arm stoppers there only like 60 bucks.

i found a place that line bores heads for $75

http://www.doverheads.com

Post by **srdub-t** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:15 pm

I took my head off and everything looks good but there are lines on the cylinder walls but you cant feel them at all so i dont know if thats normal. Ill email you guys the pics because i dont know how to post pics.

cam caps

cam cap

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