Call me crazy OR Poor man's forced induction?

[HijackTheLeft]

I took the filter off of my intake a couple days ago, and I had an idea. It may be totally ridiculous and not work... or it might just work. I dont know. I wanted to see what you all thought.

OK, the pipe on my intake is about the same size as some PC case fans. I know that a pc fan wouldnt work, because its not going to pump enough air, but I'm sure theres a fan that size that would. it could mount right inside the pipe with some epoxy or whatever. Wiring would be a *****, but not impossible. If you could get a fan to generate enough airflow, it would make your intake more functional off the jump... or so it goes in my head.

As I'm sure there are many, what are the flaws with this theory? Other than that it probably wouldnt make enough extra power to justify the added .2lbs, that is.

[:: orion ::]

You WILL NOT find an electric fan that can generate more than ~16lbs/min of airflow...which is what a KA can move without any boost. So to create boost, you'd have to find one that did MUCH MORE than 16lbs/min...not gonna happen.

An electric leafblower, for example...moves *maybe* 250cfm AT THE MOST.

That's only 17.5lbs/min...which isn't enough to boost your 2.4 liter. Plus, it would be such a restriction in your intake system, it would more than likely hurt power output.

FYI...

- Brian

[Structure240sx]

i love how technical you always sound brian

[TheOne]

get 1 of those ebay "electric fans" :P that'll give ya something!(maybe a bunch of plastic pieces that go into the engine!).[/sarcasm]

[:: orion ::]

i love how technical you always sound brian

Key word: Sound.

Hehehe...

I actually made all of that up...I just figured no one would actually check to see if I was right!



- Brian

[benemorius]

Actually I run two fans in my computer which push 220 cfm each. I have calculated it before and as I recall 220 is more than 2400cc's of displacement will use at 7000rpm, but I don't recall what the exact figures were. Using one of these fans would be more than enough, and using them both in parallel would more than double the requirement. Awesome, huh?

Well, having now said that and caused a stir, I must say that it still wouldn't do much. The problem is the pressure that they produce. I think I checked the spec sheet once and they can only build up less than .2 psi. If you factor in the air that the engine sucks in, it would probably move closer to 0.0 psi. Remember - boost from forced induction is measured in psi, not cfm.

I do have to wonder, though, if having fans like these mounted in the airbox would help negate the restrictive effects of the filter and long intake. In reality though, it's not much more than an interesting idea. If anyone should happen to get bored and try this one day, I'd be interested to hear the results. I wouldn't get my hopes up, though. And come to think of it, I doubt many of you have a fan just lying around that pushes this kind of air. Oh well...

[nismofly]

-if- it did work at all it almost certainly wouldnt be enough to make any noticeable power...

[HijackTheLeft]

Yeah, thats what I figured. LOL... I figured that if something like that would actually work, there would me a mass quanity of them available at any car shop. especially since they'd probably be relatively cheap. I just didnt know why they wouldnt work. I've learned in my short time here that I can count on you guys to shoot down all my hopes and dreams. HAHAHA

[gumby]

i couldve sworn i saw some product that was supposed to do just that

[themadscientist]

Yeah but do you offer a lifetime warrantee?http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...33741

[DAEDALUS]

Mechanical superchargers require energy to run. Assume that a supercharger's parasitic losses are 10 HP to run at redline (usually more). 10 HP = 1554 watts. An electric motor would consume roughly the same amount of energy, give or take depending on efficiency differences. On a 12V system, 1554 watts is produced by 129 amps, which is more than what the alternator can put out, and way, way more than what computer fans consume. Probably less than 1 amp at 120V.

[benemorius]

On a 12V system, 1554 watts is produced by 129 amps, which is more than what the alternator can put out, and way, way more than what computer fans consume. Probably less than 1 amp at 120V.

Wow. Big numbers.

Yup. These fans draw just under 3 amps at 12v. Now, that is a huge number as far as computer fans go, but... 129 - 3 = a really big number that didn't seem to decrease at all

[pr240sx]

Or you can use a dremel powered turbo!!A dremel can spin at what 30,000 rpms?Use a small gear box and that it!!

I will be selling this kits on Ebay- minus the dremel

[TheOne]

Quote »Not a cheap eBay knock-off[/quote] so does that mean that its an expensive ebay knock-off?,lolanywayz, there was really a company that took 3 leaf-blower like electric motors, put'em into 1 unit, and it did provide gains, but still not as many as a normal supercharger.search google, i forgot the link though.

[themadscientist]

why not mount a gas-powered compressor in the trunk, run a hose up to the intake and shoot it in?

[214kka-et240sx]

why would you do that that is kind of dump your car will not be a 13sec car you wont feel the differnce i dont know bout using a computer fan or what not migthest well get a cold air intake or save up for a turbo kit they are not really that much

[spider_slayer]

read about half way down the page for the turbonator

"Due to increased sales, backorder may be possible, by bidding on the item, you agree that item backorder is alright and we will ship to you as soon as we recieve more from our manufacturing facility. Ask prior to bidding to check product availability."

[dfw240_EE]

Mechanical superchargers require energy to run. Assume that a supercharger's parasitic losses are 10 HP to run at redline (usually more). 10 HP = 1554 watts. An electric motor would consume roughly the same amount of energy, give or take depending on efficiency differences. On a 12V system, 1554 watts is produced by 129 amps, which is more than what the alternator can put out, and way, way more than what computer fans consume. Probably less than 1 amp at 120V.

Uhm, actually 1 HP is about 750 Watts. So 10HP would be 7500 Watts.

According to the FSM, the Hitachi alternator makes 77Amps per 5,000RPM at 14.1-14.7 volts, and the Mitsubishi gets 60 Amps per 2500 RPM again at 14.1 - 14.7 volts. So a Mitsu at about 5000 RPM gets 120Amps for 14.5(guess) * 120 = 1740Watts, or about 2.3 horsepower.

[sanioll]

i love how technical you always sound brian

hehe, mate, i think youre gay!

good idea people, keep it up. i like reading technical posts while lightly drunk.

[sanioll]

all you need to know about horsepower to watt conversion for this thread:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower

[intrexin]

What if you took a aftermarket cooling fan(i've seen some advirtise around 3400cfm) rig up a shroud around and pipe it into your intake. Now if you left the fan on the radiator you would only hot air but it would be alot. And that should be less of a drain on your system becuase u would be taking off your clutch fan and thus reducing rotational mass on your motor.

btw i'm not ganna atempt his becuase i got some thing better a turbo

[dfw240_EE]

Uhm, I don't know where to begin with that intrexin. You are probably thinking along the same lines as the person who invented the supercharger was in the first place.

[jamied311]

WOW! I didn't think this post would lead to this. I did some research on this topic and i found some products (one in particular) that claimed to give your car up to a 35hp gain... im not to technical with these things, but i would like for someone to check it out, and tell me what you think of it.... here's the site

http://www.turbonator.com

[:: orion ::]

That's BS...every real test of that thing has lead to HP loss...it's a restriction in your intake system.

That's the same as the "Tornado"...all BS.

...

As for the cooling fan...it may be able to move 3400cfm, but not against any resistance. Put a towel over the back side of one of those fans, it'll kill the blade speed, then burn up the motor. It can move a bunch of air, but there's no way it could pressurize ANYTHING.

The ONLY type of fan that could move the volume of air needed to turbo a motor...PLUS have the force to create pressure...would have to look like the compressor side of a turbo, and be able to spin +100,000rpm...not gonna happen with anything electric.

- Brian

[jamied311]

I knew there was something up with it... it sounded too good to be true... '35-50 hp gain'

just save up and get a real turbo!

[dfw240_EE]

What about roots and screw-type superchargers orion? They don't spin anywhere near 100,000rpm but still produce boost. I found a website here http://turbochargedpower.com/T...s.htm that indicated that a supercharger may be effective at as little as 40,000rpm.

I do know that there has been some work done with electric superchargers. With a good turbine design it should have lots of potential. An electric motor is very efficient as it has very few moving parts. However, I have yet to hear of anyone getting an effective one working.

The real matter is that while an electric motor has very few moving parts, the turbocharger is not a complex machine by any standard. You only have a Compressor, Turbine, shaft, and some sort of bearing. For that matter, even the bearings may be replaced with frictionless electromagnetic or permanent magnetic bearings.