CA20DET build questions... This isn't a flame type of question so move along.

Post by **Drift-wood** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:17 pm

I looked through all the search hits on here and from google. I am starting to look at doing a CA20DET. I personally love the CA motor and the fact it was developed from the same research that lead to the RB motors.

Ok so let me start.

I have researched and found information from what looks like the UK saying that the CA20S crank will bolt into the Ca18det block. Then with stock CA18Det Rods machined and custom pistons you can obtain a stroked CA18det motor.

The CA18DET would be completely OEM expect the crank and pistons.

I also found that one of the issues that arise is the CA18DET crank pulley needs to be machined to fit the CA20s Crank.

My last issue that I know of from the broad over view of this project is the fly wheel. I could not get any hard fact information on it only that RB's flywheel has the same bolt pattern as the CA or very similar.

I would really like to talk to anyone that is in UK, Japan, Australia as you would have access and ability to check things where in the US I do not. until I buy the Ca18det form the importer.

I have also read a great deal about using the CA20 block and bolting on a CA18det head but this is not the route I want to take as you can see. If I use a complete CA18DET engine and stroke it using a CA20 Crank I can retain all the factory accessories and also not have to deal with the Timing belt length issues.

So in summary: I am going to buy a Ca18DET and rebuild it no matter what. Though I am thinking of trying to build a CA20DET. I would like to have any information you have or any experience you have with the CA engines.

I do not need anyone coming in spouting crap and insulting or flamming what I or anyone else says. This isn't a I used to drive civics with b16 "VTECH YO" and I got a 240sx and just thought up some numerical alphabet soup because its JDM TYTE. (It's spelled wrong on purpose)

Other than that constructive comments and real world knowledge of this subject is appreciated.

Post by **ca18detgabby** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:56 pm

zer...r-kit

Post by **zombieslider** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:08 pm

^thats a good start right there, its pricey but worth all the hassel that you WONT have to go through, also theres a company in europe that sells a stroker kit as well but they are 1900(base model).

heres that company i was talking abouthttp://www.norrisdesigns.com/

Post by **r34 gtr** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:15 pm

Did not know that was for sale. Too bad I just spent every dollar to my name on a really awesome skiing trip.

Spool also makes a CA stroker crank. It also has full counterweights, which makes it awesome as hell. I would hold off buying anything from Australia right now though, the exchange rate suuuucks.

Whoops, sorry, link: http://www.spoolimports.com/co...k.asp

Post by **Drift-wood** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:32 am

Thanks guys. I was looking at the stoker kits at first but then had found info on the ca20s crank fitting into the ca18det so I though that sounded awsome. I'm not to worried about tracking parts down as I have friends in japan that I can contact to ship me any thing I would need. For some reason 1900$ does not sound to crazy. But the hidden costs are my main worrie like the one kit from tomei you have to use their flywheel, shaft, bearings and every thing else almost. I'm trying to keep this close to oem or easy to obtain parts status. I'll have to Check the ND kit out you linked maybe they use oem flywheel and oem rids and bearings. 1900$ is small beans when you can just bolt oem fit parts on.

Post by **Drift-wood** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:39 am

ca18detgabby wrote:zer...r-kit

you almost make me want to cry. I just dropped 4k on my s14 so I have no cash what so ever. 2200$ is such a good price for the whole setup.

That also reminds me I need to run numbers to try and see what kind of rod to stroke the potential Ca20det would be at. I am thinking very close to the RB's.
Modified by Drift-wood at 11:10 AM 12/7/2009

Post by **periferal7** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:58 pm

I have one and did all the labor myself, one of many. But honestly it will be alot cheaper and less headache to use the SR20DET. Remember the availabilty of parts(ca18/20) is just not worth the time to do all this.

Post by **Drift-wood** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:45 pm

How did you do yours? Did you use a ca20 crank in a ca18det motor?I have a lot of questions. I'm with you I know for the money I could get a Sr20det... but that would simple and normal LOL.

Of course just my idea of putting the ca18det into a s14 puts me past normal...

Its hard to explain but I just have a love for the ca18det lol...

If you did the ca20 crank in the ca18det block then I would really like to get a email address so i can talk to you more about it.

Post by **float_6969** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:51 pm

I've researched this a lot and know it pretty well.

I have a CA20 crank I can sell you. It needs polished up, as one of the rod journals has some light marks on it. I'd let it go for pretty cheap.

I personally think the easiest and cheapest route would be to use a CA20 crank in a CA18 block, with a custom set of pistons that has the wrist pin moved up.

The CA20 crank has a 6 bolt flywheel as opposed to an 8 bolt like the CA18 and SR20. IDK what to do for a flywheel outside of trying to use a CA20 flywheel, or trying to find a Tomei or Exedy flywheel that was designed for the Tomei stroker kit.

The nose of the CA20 crank is smaller than the CA18 crank where the timing belt cog goes. The simplest fix would be to have a collar machined that is an interference fit to take up the extra space.

You can use a CA20 block, and bolt the DE(T) head to it, but the holes for the head bolts will have to be drilled and tapped larger, the CA20 doesn't have a crank girdle, so the girdle and bolts from the CA18 would have to be transferred over. The CA20 doesn't have bolt hole for the idle pulley and will have to have a hole drilled and tapped. The CA20 doesn't have a hole for the oil feed for the turbo, or holes for the piston squirters. Supposedly the oil galleys are there, you'd just have to drill and tap holes, but I can't get any definitive info on that. You would still need custom pistons to fit the larger bore of the CA20 (85mm, IIRC), and maybe custom rods due to the taller deck height of the CA20.

Post by **Drift-wood** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:52 pm

From everything I had read using the ca20 block and mounting a DET head was so much more work than using the ca20 crank and just machining the rods and getting custom pistons.

The only issues I have is that timing belt (cog) I knew it would be a problem. I would prefer to have one machine but using a bushing to would be a lot cheaper and easier.

I am trying to confirm it, but I had read some where that the RB25 fly wheel bolts onto the 6 bolt crank? Anyone know if this is true? I know the RB20Det flywheel bolts onto Ka's supposedly.

I can get a Ca18det for 900$ So i'm not to worried about buying a CA18det to do this with I just need to know I'm on the right track.

I need to find someone out there that knows what bolt patterns where used on what flywheels.

You know though, I wonder how much it would be to call a company that makes flywheels and have them make one with 6 bolts? Then again I wouldn't know the exact spaces needed... I could always contact Tomei and see if they would give up the specs.

This project isn't to scary to me lol, since I was going to rebuild the Ca18det anyway and most of the parts that will be getting replaced with this build would have been replaced with Aftermarket gear anyway.

Post by **float_6969** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:34 pm

Like I said, I have a CA20 crank I'd sell for cheap. I think I paid $40 + shipping for it and I wouldn't want any more than that for it.

I know the KA is a 6 bolt, and knowing Nissan it's the same bolt pattern for the KA and CA20. I would think it'd be pretty easy to pick up somebody's old KA flywheel for nothing more than the price of shipping and see how it fits. This would also allow you A LOT of clutch options too.

Post by **Drift-wood** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:33 pm

I would buy it but I don't have the car yet and my wife would flip out. Plus I have a car to sell right now also. If you have it in 3 weeks or so I'll be interested in getting it off you. If you don't I just need to get the CA20 crank from a USDM 200sx Correct. I know where one is sitting right now.

Post by **Drift-wood** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:33 pm

Just something about this build, makes me all warm inside I don't know why.

Its like the 4 cylinder that Nissan should have built lol.

Post by **Drift-wood** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:34 pm

I just thought about it. The CA20 crank is counter weighted right?

I know the ka is half counter weighted because if the ca20's the same way then its a waste of time to do this build to a extent.

Post by **float_6969** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:16 pm

Yea, the CA18, CA20, and KA are all half counterweighted. The SR is a full counterweight. I wouldn't be too worried about it, as the Tomei stroker crank is only a half counterweight design.

Post by **Drift-wood** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:20 pm

Wow didn't even know ca18det was half counter. That's kind of crazy. The engine had been taken to 8k and stuff with no real issues. I'm guessing the rb series motors are full counter weighted thought. Very strange seeing that ca and rb kind of came from the same tree.

My main reason for wanting a strokes ca was the fact the motor sets further back shifting the CG back. Question is how much though.

Post by **float_6969** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:49 pm

Half counter really isn't THAT big of a deal. IDK if the RB's are full counter. I would assume the RB26 is, but IDK about the RB25. I don't think the VG is a full counter, and it revs pretty well for a V6.

It changes is alot. Swapping from a KA to a CA TOTALLY changed the handling of my S13. Part of that is weight though. I gained at least an inch of ride height in the front of the car just changing motors. It also eliminated a lot of the understeer the car had, and made it much more neutral. The same is true for my S14. It raised the front of the S14 DRASTICALLY. I have been meaning to measure it to see exactly how much it raised it.

Regardless, the CA will change the handling of the car, and IMHO, it's for the better.

Post by **Drift-wood** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:03 pm

Well I have heard good things about the setup. That's why I have always loved it. I think Nissan would have keep the ca if it wouldn't have been for the production costs.

Post by **Drift-wood** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:12 pm

I was also going to ask do you feel in any way the ca18det is underpowered in the s14 chassis? I'm seeking total balance and a good setup for drift. I'm more interested in obtainng a well rounded car not a high power powersliding machine.

Post by **float_6969** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:13 am

No, why would it? The S14 doesn't weigh very much more than the S13. They are withing a couple hundred pouldns IIRC. And I honestly thing a lot of that is made up when you take the KA out.

Post by **Drift-wood** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:14 am

I'm picking my s14 up today. I have a question in terms of wiring I can't seem to find any exact information. I'm getting a 95 obd1. I have read that it's not setup the same as the s13 wiring. Do you have any links or info for swapping the ca18 into the 95s14 I only find info about going from obd2 to the obd1 motors.

Post by **float_6969** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:05 pm

It's rough, but it's out there. You need to find a writeup for doing a redtop SR into an S14.

I have a standalone, so my wiring was totally different.

Post by **Vetal** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:41 am

float_6969 wrote:It changes is alot. Swapping from a KA to a CA TOTALLY changed the handling of my S13. Part of that is weight though. I gained at least an inch of ride height in the front of the car just changing motors. It also eliminated a lot of the understeer the car had, and made it much more neutral. The same is true for my S14. It raised the front of the S14 DRASTICALLY. I have been meaning to measure it to see exactly how much it raised it.

Regardless, the CA will change the handling of the car, and IMHO, it's for the better.

float, does it mean KA is much heavier than CA?? To raise the front an inch would take at least 100lbs I would think

Post by **float_6969** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:36 am

I would say there is easily 100 lb. difference in weight between the KA and the CA. That's speculation though. I don't think there were ever any apples-to-apples comparisons made to know the difference.

Post by **themadscientist** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:36 am

Never understood the obsession with stroking a motor that already has unfortunate rod angles with the stock stroke. Never saw a 2.0 stroker that did any better than a bored up 1.8. Want more power on the 1.8, turn the knob.

You stay out of the red on the tach and give it the fuel and timing it wants that little iron block will take anything you throw at it.

Stroke it and get the same at more cost with little benefit.

Post by **float_6969** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:48 am

Yea, after seeing what happens to the rod ratio and the rod angle in the CA18 block, I'd never stroke one. Now getting the taller CA20 block, that's a different story. IIRC, the rod angle and ratio were much better on the taller block, even with the extra stroke.

Post by **Vetal** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:09 am

It's quite simple, if you drive your car everyday in city traffic, you need displacement because there is no boost.
Or add supercharger, this is what I'm seriously considering right now

Post by **themadscientist** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:14 pm

My 660 three banger turbo does perfectly fine in traffic and can yank my truck up a hill with ease, that's a specious argument.
WTF are you trying to do in city that requires more torque, drag launches in stop an go driving, timed hill climbs?

Add a supercharger, sure, introduce some parasitic drag for a little low end grunt.

Post by **dash** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:56 am

torque makes all the difference in the world when scooting around in city traffic.
A whole lot missing under 3500rpm..... hence why its been discussed a million times, and swaps are extremely popular.
Its not peak hp they're after.
Who wouldn't want to instantly have V6-like tq at a tap of the throttle, accelerating off briskly.... then grown into an angry beast as rpms climb ?
All from a 'wimpy' 1.8L = a whole new ca18 experience. A bump in compression or cA20 won't give u that
I can definitely see the big gains in twincharging

Post by **Vetal** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 8:49 am

themadscientist wrote:My 660 three banger turbo does perfectly fine in traffic and can yank my truck up a hill with ease, that's a specious argument.

That's cute

Can you do some drifting or 12.0s in 1/4 in it?

CA20DET build questions... This isn't a flame type of question so move along.

CA20DET build questions... This isn't a flame type of question so move along.

Re: CA20DET build questions... This isn't a flame type of qu ... (Drift-wood)

Re: CA20DET build questions... This isn't a flame type of qu ... (ca18detgabby)

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Re: CA20DET build questions... This isn't a flame type of qu ... (Drift-wood)

Re: CA20DET build questions... This isn't a flame type of qu ... (periferal7)

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