CA20 woes, and introduction

[BigPappy]

Greetings All!My nic is BigPappy (kid's idea ), but name is Serge, I have posted an introduction in the 'general' forum, but I thought that this looked like the best place to start a thread regarding my delema that is driving me bonkers, hopefully this is in the right place.I have a bit of a problem that I hope somebody, somewhere, somehow, can help me troubleshoot.I have a '87 Multi/Stanza.This quote I posted on another forum pretty much explains things, but I'd like to add that at one point I had over filled the oil, we drained out the excess and it ran fine, but I'm wondering if there is something (a control valve?) that I may have fouled up? I admit to know next to nothing about these engines but if pointed in the right direction I can figure it out I'm pretty sure. Unfortunately I'm on my own with this as all the guys I know with any engine smarts are off Island or working other jobs and busy

Thanks in advance for any considerations!

Serge

My tale of woe here>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have entered CA-20 hell and I hope there is someone out there that can get me pointed in the right direction.The problem> engine started to sputter, eventually got worse, then started acting like it was running on two cylinders, poping and farting like the timing belt had slipped, will start but pop/etc. not rev properly, then die...

Buddy who is handy with cars said it did indeed sound like the belt had calfed a tooth or two and slipped.So, after ordering a new belt for it I headed up (the poor thing died a bit of a ways away) and proceeded to start tearing into it. After about 2hrs I had the top section of the timing cover off, and was not feeling so great about continuing further *sad*I had the coil wires disconnected, the waterpump pully off, rad hose outta the way, and jogged the belt around via starter to inspect it. No horrible sounds of valves hitting or anything similar.The belt looks fine, no teeth missing and decent tension.I had a friend jog it around some more to check the marks on the crank pully to see if everything lined up with the cam drive. With the cam pully mark at TDC the timing mark lined up with the furthest (and shiney) right of four marks on the crank pully. this leads me to believe that this is not a timing belt issue at all (and I am thanking my stars I did not proceed further!)So, what the heck should I check next? Plugs 'seem' to be fine and changing the front plug wires for different ones seemed to make no difference.I might add that this problem went from running rough to absolute pooh within' two days, until that time it ran excellent. Help help!An old question on the forums here mentioned an ERG (?) valve that can get fouled up, I do not as yet have a manual, and consequently have not a clue where to look for this.Are there other cleanable/replacable valves that I can check? (where do I find them?)I have checked all the little hoses everywhere, they all seem good and flexible & tight, I have checked the air intake body and there are no cracks and it is in good shape, air filter is ok too.I have not checked the rotor and cap (next I think tomorrow), but I can not see this as the gradual problem that ensued and lead to car just basically sputtering till dead.I am not totally inept with tools or engines and even kept my old Tercel running to see the 400,000k mark ( ) my knowledge is basic though.But this fuel injected puzzle has me baffled and slightly intimidated.

Any helpful suggestions would be most greatly appreciated.I really like this vehicle, my first Nissan, and it ran well since I got it last January. It doesn't burn oil, and has around 230k on the odo, 5-speed manual trans and everything works (or did) except the rear window motor (I know this is a weak thing with these, cannot find a used one anywhere around here, Gulf Islands BC, grrrr)

So what would make it all go ta hell so fast?

GAH!"

EDIT> full story in my last post below, tl;dr version, it was the teeny 8mm bolt that holds the rotor in place, allowing it to, erm, wreak havoc on everything. This could have been much, much worse. As it was it was a 200$ un-done bolt, go figure Thanks for what advice I did get, this has been a huge learning curve and I aim to learn more

Cheers!

Serge


Modified by BigPappy at 6:40 PM 8/8/2009

[float_6969]

Is it a CA20E, or a CA20S?

[BigPappy]

From what I've been reading I am assuming that the Ca20E's are the fuel injected ones and the CA20S's are the carberatored ones, mine is fuel injected and has EGI on the throttle body (?) so I gather it is a 'E' version.

No idea if this is correct, I be on a major learning curve here and have been all evening on this site and a couple of other sites (S12club in particular but finding not much I can use there), trying to learn more (and going a bit bit goofey too I might add, trying to learn what all the acronyms are etc.).Today, put engine back together and went over vacume lines again as I stared blankly at sick motor (it was like 90 in the sun, oi.). One silly bolt on the bottom of the top timingbelt cover took me a while till I removed the motor mount bolt obstructing me, lots to be said about those magnetic telescoping thingies Ouff!Hooked everything back up, fired it up, took some pedal, still runs like hell, but if I give it a bit of gas it really tries...shut it off quickly. It was getting late so didn't check dist. cap (also seems I need to find an 8mil wrench tomorrow), but did pull 1,2,3, front plugs, all sort of grimey/black carboned up, yah, not good. On a nearby mechanics suggestion I pulled the plug from the bottom of the gas tanks and drained about a half gallon, gas seems fine, no water I could see (its been sitting for several days now so if there was anything there I should have something...if it was there).Stared at car for a while more.. *still sad*

Couple new questions. I have a sneaking feeling I've fouled some things up sensor valve-wise.I'd like to check/clean MAF, no idea where it is or how to, also the EGR, that I did find in a near impossible spot behind the engine under the throttle body, don't know if I can even get it out but I'll try Also, O2 sensor? On the exhaust, found it, is it worth checking out? Is it cleanable? Dunno.So I guess the basic question is, if these various sensors are fouled, could this possibly be part of my problem? Haven't even found the ECU yet, suspect its under the drivers seat, will look tomorrow for it. And another, the ignition relays in the fuse box, check 'em? How?I'd like to eliminate as much as humanly possible before I attack it again or spend money on things I do not need.Oh, swapped fuel filter (and yup, there be pressure too) with a new POS just in case, no difference there, swapped it back, don't think its anything to do with that, I will however give car a good drink of new gas tomorrow though.Injectors, anyway to test in situ? Are they cleanable? Another dunno.

The more I'm learning the less I am knowing I s'pose But I'm not giving up on this, especially since its my only family car and I'm sortta fond of it.If I had the bucks I'd go rotor/cap/wires/plugs to start, but I don't, so at the very least the kid will stay amused fer a bit and can pass me bandaids

Thanks to anyone who reads this wall 'o' text.

Cheers!

Serge

[float_6969]

Did you say that you HAVE pulled ALL of the spark plugs out and checked them? It's pretty common to foul out the plugs when the motor has been overfilled with oil. The fouled plugs could also damage the cap and rotor as the spark tries to find the patch of least resistance, it can do CRAZY things inside that distributor.

[BigPappy]

Thank you for reply Float, I have a full set of new plugs coming in tomorrow morning, and will do a visual on the cap and rotor.I pulled the exhaust side ones and they were grimey/black but there was still gap, the intake plugs were pulled and cleaned a day or so before problem got to the point of really bad running, guess I'll know their condition tomorrow. Stupid question, is the gap the same on both sets of plugs (0.044)?

Thanks again!

Cheers,

Serge

[float_6969]

I would ASSUME so, but the CA20 is a bit of a rarity so I don't know that much about it off the top of my head.

[mod_mastaz]

Check your coolant temp sensor resistance values and also check your coil packs. Look around for any damaged wires or loose connections. A majority of CA20E problems are electronic related due to age. And just for safe measure, have you done a compression test yet?

[BigPappy]

Here's one ta keep in mind for y'all!

After hours of mucking about, dismantling timing cover, replacing exhaust plugs, pulling what little hair I have out, the problem was so stupidly easy I am still in awe.

On those particular distributors the rotor is un-keyed and held in place by a small 8mm bolt!, good gravey, I darned near missed it but when I went to pull the rotor off is was like 'huh?', confusion, I could see the hole and threads, figured it was a screw-headed bolt........ .........DOH!What is that little shiney thing stuck to the distributor magnet?!?Oooooo, a little bolt *sound of heavenly music and flashing lightbulbs ensues*

So basically the roter was moving around where-ever it wanted, no wonder buddy thought the belt had skipped a tooth or three.No major arcing was obvious in the cap, but the rotor looked like it went through a bad frost or something, the contact(?) was burned so I cleaned that up too. Rotor works again *whew!*

DOH! Again!

Cleaned cap and rotor, replaced keeper bolt. Did have to fart around with the dist. for a bit as the upper coil lead had fused the end into the recepticle (I will not bore you with how much fun that was not to get out!, thankfully didn't wreck it), had a spare wire for it too *yah me!*

Put everything back together, hopped in, fired right up and runs like a clock again (well a bit rough but I think that will smooth out once a bit of the fouling on the ignition side burns off)

Thought I'd share this gem with you good folks as it definately is something to look at before tearing into such things as the timing, plugs/wires etc.

Just goes ta show ya how such a simple silly thing can be easily missed, and how such a thing can really, really, mess up yer week!

Thank you for the kind replies, I'll be back soon I'm sure.

Cheers,

Serge