ca18det with t28 no tuning?

[bias]

OK I have a stock CA with front mount, apexi intake, 3" exhaust and downpipe, q45 fuel pump, and an upgraded ecu(boost-up). I am doing a t28bb conversion and I was wondering would the car be ok for daily driving (10lbs or less) with my set-up. I plan on upgrading the ecu to stage 3 along with injectors but I need to drive the car until then. I have the time to do the turbo know and the other stuff is pretty simple to change. I'm not sure about the chip thats in my car but could it cause some problems. I looked all over the net for "boost-up" and it seems like it's just a stage 1 upgrade for my ecu. Someone help me out with some "Don't Do's" od "It's Ok's". Thanks in advance.

[themadscientist]

What the heck is a "stage 3 ECU"? is that a brand name or are we still thinking Need for speed for the PS2?Unless you know what the ECU was tuned to you are running a risk. If you do not have adequate instruments to monitor your A/F ratio you should not do anything if what you have is working.

[Buddyworm]

The tuning "stages" some people use are just marketing and have no actual meaning. Do you know what size injectors and maf you have? Everything stock you should be ok running 10psi with the T28. I would NOT be boosting over that, however, even if it's a spike.

[themadscientist]

Until most companies come to an agreement on what a "stage" entails it will mean nothing discernable.

[bias]

Thanks for the info. I feel like a "Super Noob" they have stage 1,2,3 stuff all over the net. So your telling me that this is all marketing hype? Well the ecu still runs on stock maf and injectors. The ecu is socketed so where is the best place to get an upgrade. This is all new to me, I never done any of this before so take it easy on me.

[MeanGreenS13]

your best bet is upgrade MAF, Injectors and GO standalone or ::hides:: piggyback

[ilovecoupes]

What the heck is a "stage 3 ECU"? is that a brand name or are we still thinking Need for speed for the PS2?

I have the stage 2, which is: upgraded turbo, wet shot of nitrous, better tires, and lighter flywheel and upgraded ECU.

[mbmbmb23]

Every stage 3 Ive ever seen is:Z32maf, 444/440cc inj, T28, intake/exhaust, raised revs, no speed cut. Some advertise beefed up fuel maps/timing.

The "stages" naming system is mostly used and commonly understood on SXOC and other Euro boards when referring to the CA ECU tunes.

-m

[Buddyworm]

Every stage 3 Ive ever seen is:Z32maf, 444/440cc inj, T28, intake/exhaust, raised revs, no speed cut. Some advertise beefed up fuel maps/timing.

The "stages" naming system is mostly used and commonly understood on SXOC and other Euro boards when referring to the CA ECU tunes.

-m

Hooray for Euro boards. I've seen a "Stage 3" with 550cc injectors. And what if somebody uses an RB25 maf? What's it then? "Stage 2.673203"? Again, it's a gimmick and because some have "beefed up maps" it's necessary you know exactly what's been done to the tune because things like that are hella important.

your best bet is upgrade MAF, Injectors and GO standalone or ::hides:: piggyback

What's the big advantage a standalone has over a rom tune besides being able to run a MAP sensor?

[mbmbmb23]

Hooray for Euro boards. I've seen a "Stage 3" with 550cc injectors. And what if somebody uses an RB25 maf? What's it then? "Stage 2.673203"? Again, it's a gimmick and because some have "beefed up maps" it's necessary you know exactly what's been done to the tune because things like that are hella important.

What's the big advantage a standalone has over a rom tune besides being able to run a MAP sensor?

Stage comparison is only helpful when comparing a single tuners chips between one another.....simple marketing using tiers. Basically when someone mentions "stage 3 ecu" they'll need supporting mods for 280-300hp and will need a Z maf (never seen a "stage" tune from the major CA chip tuners Horsham, Norris Designs, etc use RB mafs), and usually 440cc injectors.....or an adjustible FPR and 550s.

The advantage of using a Stand Alone over a rom tune is being able to change injectors/mafs/fuel maps/timing maps on the fly with a laptop (no hassling with chip reburns), map tracing with playback, wide band support, etc.

-m

[themadscientist]

The problem with "stages" is as a couple of people have said, no interchangability between makers. One "stage 3" is not the same as the other guys "stage 3". So when someone says "I want a stage 3" whatever it means nothing to me as I have no idea which "stage 3" they mean. I wish they would just drop it. It would be like having hundreds of different "inches", one guy uses 16 16ths but someone else uses 17 16ths. They are both an "inch" in this example but not the same.

In your situation IMO your stock MAF is fine but it would not be overkill to step up to a little bit bigger, RB20/25 or VG30. You should likely get some bigger injectors, 444-550cc to be safe and remap the ECU for the new setup.

[Buddyworm]

The advantage of using a Stand Alone over a rom tune is being able to change injectors/mafs/fuel maps/timing maps on the fly with a laptop (no hassling with chip reburns), map tracing with playback, wide band support, etc.

-m

http://www.nistune.com. Problem solved. Cheaper too

[MeanGreenS13]

ALL YOU PEOPLE WHO INSIST ON TRYING TO FIND CHEAPER WAYS TO DO SOMETHING PISS ME OFF TO NO FIGGIN END!

Cheap FastReliable

PICK 2... YOU CAN HAVE CHEAP AND FAST BUT IT WONT BE RELIABLE, YOU CAN HAVE FAST AND RELIABLE BUT IT WONT BE CHEAP... CHEAP AND RELIABLE WONT BE FAST...

if you really want to go as close to cheap as possible, for god sakes do megasquirt. DONT BUY PRE TUNED ECU'S OFF EBAY EVER! i dont care what they claim...

i personally am going piggyback with an emanage ulitmate, just because ive had great success with the unit on prior cars and am familliar with it.

[themadscientist]

don't waste your breath man. You, me, dee, and many others have said the same thing until we are blue in the face. People will continue to cut corners and be dumbfounded when things go badly.

[MeanGreenS13]

i sit back and laugh. I consider myself one of the senior CA members, even tho im 3 months new to the motor, ive done more research, reading and WORK on them than mostm embers that have had them for 3 years. i just hate people who go, OH let me throw a big turbo on and turn up the boost... and they dont start thinking about ripple effect...

[themadscientist]

People have to learn in their own way. Most will not accept advice even if they themselves solicited it. They just have to make thier own mistakes and learn from them. In a year or two they will be the ones typing messages like ours. By that point we will be so exhuasted from yelling now we will probably not say anything at all.

[r34 gtr]

I'm always down for some yelling. You guys knew that though.

[bias]

don't waste your breath man. You, me, dee, and many others have said the same thing until we are blue in the face. People will continue to cut corners and be dumbfounded when things go badly.

Calm down people. I didn't get into this with a goal of cutting corners. A lot of things I have done is only because I didn't know any better. I am aware of the upgrades needed to get the power. I aready have a z32 maf, and looking to get some injectors, fuel pressure regulator,and clutch. The thing is that most sites only explain things that are asked and some things are not even spoken of. Think of a "Noob" with a CA? It's hard enough to get a good engine let alone learn what to do with it, unless through trial and error. I have made some mistakes getting the right part # or even the right piping. we learn as we go sometimes. I have been looking into stand alone as well as piggy back systems. Some people say chip the ecu and use the piggy to fine tune, others say get stand alone. The stand alone seems a little complicated unless it can be plug and play. I have looked at the emanage as well as MS and they both seem good but I have been on this journey alone well except for all of you here on Nico. When I take my car places and ask questions people are clueless. Do you all know a muffler shop told me at one point I couldn't put a 3" exhaust on a 240 "What the Hell"? I don't want to destroy my investment on someone else's curiosity so I do everything myself if it srews up I'm the only one to blame. The CA engine is almost like a "UFO"(unidentified fast object) that few people where I'm at know about, not to mention really know what to do with it. I am open to all sorts of management. I just want the best bang for my buck like everyone else. The thing is that most sites seem to explan things as if you already know when it comes to stand alone. I think it would be a good idea to have more details posted about standalone upgrades as well as piggyback systems. I have been thinking about Emanage but which one? megasquirt but do I have to do the whole Escort/GM junkyard treasure hunt? Apexi neo but will it do everything I need? To me the advertisers cater to the noobs with some things because they say certain things that make it seem simple but then its more than just buying there product. So if anyone has ideas of management I'm open to it I just need to know about installation and at least what I would need to do to get the car to run again. My goal is 300-330hp safe.

[mbmbmb23]

As mentioned above I would try Nistune if you want stand alone.http://home.aanet.com.au/nistune/You simply have your ECU socketted then you plug it into the socket and install the USB female port on the ECU case. The ECU can then be programmed via a laptop and Nistune software. You can download base maps for now and change setting in the software to Zmaf and whatever injectors you use. The best part is you dont have to install any wires under the hood unless you add a wideband. I will be buying a Nistune unit after Christmas and I'm in Charlotte so I could help you with yours if you got one.

-m

[Woods Crasher]

As mentioned above I would try Nistune if you want stand alone.http://home.aanet.com.au/nistune/You simply have your ECU socketted then you plug it into the socket and install the USB female port on the ECU case. The ECU can then be programmed via a laptop and Nistune software. You can download base maps for now and change setting in the software to Zmaf and whatever injectors you use. The best part is you dont have to install any wires under the hood unless you add a wideband. I will be buying a Nistune unit after Christmas and I'm in Charlotte so I could help you with yours if you got one.

-m

I'm going the Nistune route as well. Looks like the perfect solution to ecu tuning if you ask me...

[mbmbmb23]

I'm going the Nistune route as well. Looks like the perfect solution to ecu tuning if you ask me...

Yeah, I could spend $50-$150 on a tuned chip plus $200 on an SAFC or spend the same amount on a Nistune and be able to change the setting when I upgrade my setup later. Granted I'll probably be stuck starting off with an OEM CA18DET timing/fuel map but I'll at least be up and running with the correct values for injector and MAF programmed so I can drive around and test out different tunes. I can experiement quite easily with loading other tuned ROMS people have come up with or try loading an SR map (which I've heard is essentially what Mine's does with their CA tuned ECUs). I just think the plug and play factor plus the extra flexibility is the major selling point over a tuned chip + piggyback.

-m

[MeanGreenS13]

talk to you when it blows up.

[r34 gtr]

Meh, I blow mine up all the time. It just happens. I dont mind though because I love taking the CA apart and rebuilding it. You really have to suck if you kill one though. Ive done unspeakable things to mine and the bottom end is still intact.

That being said, the stock engine management system can kiss the fattest part of my a$s. All those retarded valves and stuff, one was always on the fritz making my car run like crap. Now I just fire it up and drive it.

[mbmbmb23]

talk to you when it blows up.

So if I went your route and got an Emanage Ultimate and tuned it myself......how would it be any less likely to blow up in your opinion?

-m

[Ca_Silvia]

These guys are right, do it right the first time and you will never have to worry about weird **** happening. But on the flip side all the senior members here preach stand alone managment. While there are well qualified tuners in Europe and Austrailia that have been using chips to get decent hp #'s.

You can get 300hp on a chipped ecu that cost a few hundred bucks or you can spend thousands on standalone and get the extra 30 hp.

Call me cheap and add me to the generalization that most ca owners are cheap asses, but i can't justify an extra 1000 dollars for 30hp and the ability to adjust the tune anywhere anytime. Just my 0.02

Edit: Stole this from the Dyno Sheet Sticky, ive made little notes whether or not you actually need the parts to make the power or not and added rough prices in.

JDMSIL80's-hope you dont mind

Here's my mod list:Bone stock motorGarrett GT28R -$900444cc GT-R injectors -$200 used 50 for rebuildingHorsham stage 3 chip -$150Blitz I-D color EBC -get a MBC from ebay $20FET coil pack -stock works fineXS Power FMIC -$450 with pipingXS Power turbo manifold -not neededXS Power down pipe -not needed Megan Racing exhaust -$200HKS SSQV recirculated -not neededHKS Power filter -not neededZ32 MAF -$100 at the junkyard Walboro 255 fuel pump -$120

The first run I pulled with 11psi netted me with 222whp & 176wtq

Then we did a couple more runs by increasing the boost level. And finally, I made with 289.7whp @ 6500, 258wtq @ 5800 @ 18 psi

That $2040 doing it the "cheap" way. And i just want to be clear that doing right the first time should not be sacrificed because you can not afford it. I still agree with all the senior guys about that. I just don't like how they lead on about how standalone is the only way.
Modified by Ca_Silvia at 4:08 PM 11/12/2007

[MeanGreenS13]

because im not tuning it. Im having CFT tune it. PLUS go with whats tried and true, Standalone, MAINLY megasquirt. Im going with Emanage because ive used it and i know it works. I see TONS of CA guys use megasquirt. I cant preach it enough. STICK WITH WHAT EVERYONE KNOWS WORKS. dont be a guinne pig... it will bite you in the *** man

[The_Chosen_One]

Ya leave the guinea pig stuff to me, I dont see a reason to get megasquirt to work the stock ignition components when they blow goats.