CA18DET Swap and EMS Investigation

[livelyjay]

I was going to buy an S2000, but I figured if I didn't have a $400+ a month car payment I could use that money for better purposes, like home improvement, vacations, etc. So the Pulsar project is back on. I want to eventually swap in a CA18DET into the car. Right now it's got a CA16DE engine in it with the transmission already fully converted to the beefier RS5F50C from the '88 and the conversion was a success. Although the synchros are shot and the selector rod was bent when it got shipped to me, but it still works.

boost_boy explained that the JDM FWD CA18DET should be avoided because the intake manifold/cylinder head design is inferior and that the JDM FWD transmission is not compatible. I thought it would be nice to get the FWD transmission replacement that I need and the engine at the same time. Could someone please confirm that the JDM FWD from the CA18DET is not compatible with the axles, linkage, etc from the USDM RS5F50C?

Engine management is my other concern. The JDM FWD CA18DET that I found does not come with the ECU but it supposedly has the uncut wire loom with it. If I need to go with a standalone EMS, I think the best option for me to do that first, figure out how to do it with the NA engine, and if I'm successful move forward with the swap. I figure my options are:

• Use the OEM loom, splice in the CA18DET ECU plug (I have the pin outs from both), and buy a FWD CA18DET ECU from someone
• Use the OEM loom, and get NisTune installed on my OEM ECU
• Run the JDM loom and buy a FWD CA18DET ECU from someone
• Use the OEM loom and go with an aftermarket ECU

I am interested in going with an aftermarket ECU, but I've never done more than a piggyback (SplitSecond) so I'm nervous about it, plus I don't know the best options. I was thinking MegaSquirt, but it appears that it cannot control spark without some experimental work on the ECU and the CPS, or converting the ignition system to a different type (e.g. Ford EDIS).

[float_6969]

The JDM FWD CA18DET has a VERY complicated intake manifold, a different head than the 8 port head we got in the US, and the transmission is setup for AWD, meaning there is a driveshaft output coming out of the middle of the transmission.

As Boostboy said, the JDM FWD CA18DET won't work in the Pulsar chassis. STAY AWAY FROM THE JDM FWD CA18DET!!! If you currently have a CA16, then the purchase of a RWD CA18DET and simply moving some parts from your CA16 over to it will allow you to run this engine with out much issue. This still won't solve the ECU issues though. You are fortunate in that you have a CA16 currently. This ECU is the most compatible with the CA18DET ECU, and will allow you to use all of your current CA16 electronics mated to the CA18DET engine. You'll simply need the CA16 ECU re-flashed with the CA18 rom image, or you could use a CA18 ECU, but I don't know if the FWD and RWD ECU'S are plug'n'play.

If you want to avoid messing with the stock electronics, which can be a bit of a pain to deal with and have some know shortcomings (CAS problems, COP problems, ignitor problems) Boostboy and I would both suggest a standalone EMS from Racetech, the SDS EM5-F. This will control all engine parameters and is VERY easy to tune. It would also be VERY easy to install it on the CA16 and then swap it over to the CA18 when the time comes.

[livelyjay]

Below is a picture from the JDM supplier. The transmission is 100% FWD. Why is it not compatible with the KN13 chassis? It looks identical to the RS5F50C that I installed last year.


I think I know what you mean about the intake manifold being complicated, because it appears to be identical to the manifold from the CA16DE and CA18DE engines with the various valves hanging all over it. The FWD version also appears to have a slightly different ignition system, since there is a coil pack next to the spark plug galley, which means no Coil-on-Plug.

I've always known the RWD version would work, it's just that I didn't want to have the complication of moving the engine configuration (flipping the intake manifold components, turning the turbo around and clocking the intake side of the turbo, etc). The AWD version appears to have the same intake manifold as the RWD version. Since I already have the transmission (as I said it just needs some repairs) I can ditch the AWD transmission and have the engine already in the transverse configuration. The trans to intake manifold support bars will be different, so I'll need to fabricate those. Other than that is there any difference between the AWD and RWD versions?

How would I get the CA16 ECU flashed? As for the RWD/FWD ECU incompatibilities, boost_boy will probably know that. SDS EM5-F appears to be WAY out of my price range, but as always you get what you pay for so I will keep it in mind.

[float_6969]

In regards to the transmission, you'll have to ask Boostboy. I'm not as familiar with the FWD stuff as he is. If it's not setup for AWD, then I don't know why it wouldn't work.

As for the intake manifold, it's different than the CA16 and later CA18's. In the version that you have posted, there are actually 8 runners, much like Toyota's TVIS system. The shape of the port in the head is totally different as well. In the CA16 and later CA18 8 port heads, the shape of the port is different than the earlier versions, as well as there only being 4 runners that split into 8 RIGHT BEFORE the head. The European models only had 4 ports.

The AWD and FWD engines are nearly identical. I would STRONGLY encourage you to stay away from the engine you have posted. I'm not saying it's a bad engine. It's probably nice in that it would have GREAT torque characteristics, but getting parts will be a NIGHTMARE.

Anyone that does ROM tuning should be able to flash the ECU for the CA18 map.

[boost_boy]

As stated, stay away from that engine "Period". As for the FWD/2 WD transmission, it will bolt to the CA series blocks and will work, but the problem is the axles. They will have to be custom made as the pulsar input shafts are too small in diameter and will not fit properly. The axles are of the stanza-type with the beefier input shafts. So in order to make this transmission work, you will have to take those shafts you see on that transmission and have the pulsar outer-shafts installed. I'll find out here soon enough and will let you know if this will work (i believe it will). So in short, you can use that transmission, but you will need to spend more money to make it work. You can have the CA16DE's ecu done-up by JWT or Enthalpy or one of these other rom tuners around the U.S. The SDS is an excellent investment if you plan on keeping your car and you really want to get the most out of the engine in terms of performance.

P.S. If you're looking to get that transmission, make sure they send you the bearing carrier bracket for the long axle or passenger side axle as the CA16DE's carrier is different and will not fit.

[livelyjay]

boost_boy, I already converted to the CA18DE transmission with axles, shift linkage, carrier bearing, etc. You helped me with that last year. Are the axles for the Stanza the same as the axles for the Pulsar with the CA18DE? The part pictures between the two vehicles looks identical on A1-Cardone's site. Either way, since you guys a vehemently against that FWD CA18DET, I will stay away from it. I do need to rebuild my transmission of get a new one. A "close by" JDM supplier has a CA18DE transmission in stock for pretty cheap so I might pick it up. It's closer and cheaper than any other option and if it's bunk, it will give me something to practice a transmission rebuild on.

Right now it looks like my options are limited. If I can get my CA16DE tuned by Enthalpy or JWT then I can get an AWD engine (I can't find a full AWD swap anywhere). Otherwise I'm going to be getting the RWD swap and I'll splice the CA18DET ECU plugs into my OEM harness.

[livelyjay]

Been talking with NisTune and he highly suggested I not go down the path I was thinking. He said a few have tried to use NisTune on the CA16DE ECU with the CA18DET engine and did not have much luck. I'd rather not spend $500 to "not have much luck". So what would you guys suggest as the best path to take? To me #2 sounds like the best way to go, but that's because I don't know what's involved with reconfiguring the engine, but it sounds like a pain in the butt to me.

• 1: RWD swap with harness, ECU, and MAF
  • $1300 shipped
  • Pros - Everything in one shipment, includes MAF
  • Cons - Reconfiguring the engine for FWD
• 2: AWD engine, buy the ECU and a patch harness on eBay
  • $900 + $100 (ecu) + $160 (patch harness to get the plug)
  • Pros - No engine reconfiguration, cheapest option
  • Cons - Buying from three different people, patch harness wires are all same color adds to difficulty of splice
• 3: AWD engine alone, convert to Ford EDIC4 ignition, and MegaSquirt
  • $900 + $75 (ignition) + $500ish (MegaSquirt)
  • Pros - No engine reconfiguration, get to build ECU (sounds like fun to me), probably learn the most, could be most powerful of three
  • Cons - Most complicated not only with building ECU but with installing completely different ignition, most expensive

[boost_boy]

Check your PMs.

[livelyjay]

Checked. Don't have any.

I found an AWD engine within driving distance, so it might end up being cheaper than the other one. I just have to find out what it will cost me for customs to bring it back into the US.

[livelyjay]

For the fuel pump, would this kit be appropriate for the Pulsar?
http://compare.ebay.com/like/2006601927 ... r&_lwgsi=y

[float_6969]

I'm no help on that one. You'll have to wait for Dee to chime in. I'm interested in the answer though, so if you find out, please post up.

[livelyjay]

Well Dee told me any Walbro for early 90s Nissan's will work because they are all slanted in the fuel tank and I heard way back that I should get the pump for the B13 SE-R, so I might just go ahead and get it and see if it works.

Now more items that I need to consider budget wise. What clutch options do I have? My goals are around 250 at the crank, so what should I look at for clutches?

[float_6969]

I think Dee has to have custom clutches made, as there aren't any high performance aftermarket options off the shelf.

[livelyjay]

Dee is also running a lot more horsepower. I'll send a note to Spec and see what they say. They have an entire lineup listed for the CA18DE FWD transmission, so they might know what I should get. I just posted on here in case anyone had some insight. Kind of like what Dee talks about, us FWD guys are far and few between.

[Packrat182]

Hey, I know I've been awol for a while, but I was poking around and ran across this thread and wanted to toss my two cents in.
First of all : HI DEE! (No I'm not dead). (Yes I still have my car/Engine, but I'm still working on it...long story got longer if you recall).
Honestly, reconfiguring the RWD manifold for FWD - isn't that hard. It's actually the easiest part of the swap imho. (I have a spare RWD set up to go for FWD btw).
The ca18de FWD trans from the NX SE should hold up just fine. The major downside will be the open slip diff. (I do not recall the u12 having VLSD, and the VLSD transmissions are STUPIDLY hard to find anyway).
You can use the ca16de EFI harness a bit easier then modifying the ca18de harness for the det. Either way (ca16de modded or a RWD EFI harness) you're going to basically have to do the same things.
If you try to use the ca116de ecu, it will run, but it will run lean, and that's no good.
Best bet is to go with the RWD setup. I know other kn13 owners who would argue with me, but meh.
Side note: save your intake cam from the ca16de - it will come in handy later.
Rat
P.S. - My project is finally back underway, as a friend/shop owner has decided to help me out.

[Packrat182]

Side Note: i have a performance clutch for the FWD - but i forget offhand who made it. I will take a look this weekend and make a note of it here.
Rat

[livelyjay]

Thanks for the input Rat. I'm actually working out a deal with someone to get a rebuild CA18DET, harness, ECU, etc. Flipping everything around doesn't really bother me that much, it's just something extra I didn't want to have to deal with, but I can deal with it if I have to. I'm going to splice the JDM plug into my CA16DE harness and use the JDM ECU. I have the CA18DE transmission already installed in the car, but plan on getting a new one since mine needs to be rebuilt and the shift rod is bent so the shift positions are like 1/8" off (3rd is slightly right and then forward). I'll cross my fingers that the one I'm getting is the VLSD, but I won't hold my breath. I heard about the intake cam and I plan on holding onto the CA16DE engine any ways because I want to practice tearing down an engine and putting it all back together.

[Packrat182]

I might have some extra pieces laying around. When I head to the garage this weekend I'll let you know. IIRC - i have a spare trans for parts :-D
I know I have tons of randomness in that garage, but it's been a while since I took inventory. I have to go through everything Saturday and take notes of what I have, and what I still need (which shouldn't be much).
I have a spare pulsar too if you need anything. (ca16de)
Rat

[Packrat182]

www.clutchnet.com - fwd CA Clutches.