CA18DET Secondary Butterflies Control System

Discuss topics related to the CA18DE and CA18DET series engines.
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mbmbmb23
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Re: (superJoy)

Postby mbmbmb23 » Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:56 pm

superJoy wrote:I don't know how much help this actually is, but here's a look at all the components brand new from Nissan:



It mounts on the bracket under the windshield washer motor between the firewall and the passenger side strut tower.
Do all pieces mount there or just the tank? Do you have a pic installed?...or a pic of the OEM bracket?

thanks,

-m


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Re: (nocwage)

Postby dattodude » Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:29 pm

Good one Nocwage. That's a 'hole in one' for why we should be using these butterflies on engines that operate below 5000 revs :-)

Yeah it was me who touted the 20%. Yours looks closer to 10% but this alone would contribute more to 'feelable' power under 4000rpm than do pod intakes or expensive spark plugs.

Cheers,Chris

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superJoy
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Re: (mbmbmb23)

Postby superJoy » Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:18 am

mbmbmb23 wrote:
Do all pieces mount there or just the tank? Do you have a pic installed?...or a pic of the OEM bracket?

thanks,

-m
Don't have a picture, but I have this drawing from impactblue.org:



You can see how it sits on the bracket there... It's the same spot the cruise control actuator sits I believe—same bracket. I don't have anything but the bracket (my car had cruise originally) so I'm going to ziptie it all down and call it a day.

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slidecrave
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Postby slidecrave » Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:54 am

is there anyone who actually has this hooked up the correct way and can possibly provide some pictures of it.. would make it alot easier for me to really see whats going on since i guess i will need to pick one of these up as well since mine is totally missing the system too..

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davidricardo86
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Re: (slidecrave)

Postby davidricardo86 » Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:15 pm

slidecrave wrote:is there anyone who actually has this hooked up the correct way and can possibly provide some pictures of it.. would make it alot easier for me to really see whats going on since i guess i will need to pick one of these up as well since mine is totally missing the system too..
Dude the pictures are there! Nissan printed the pictures above and thats how theyre suppose to be. Get the parts and install it however is most convienient for you! As if the Nissan Fast and FSM pictures werent enough.... jeez.... got me all worked up...

But wow its great to see the results were seeing from the Nissan Induction Control System (NICS) and this awesome sticky. Keep the info coming!

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slidecrave
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Postby slidecrave » Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:31 pm

I'm sorry I must of not made it clear I can see the diagrams and I know thats how its suppose to be.. I was simply curious to to see pics of the actually unit in the car.. Just a request cause in my book actual pic>diagrams sorry if that bugs you but then dont read what I post next time there's no need to get all work up life is too short for that.. Good Day Sir

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Re: CA18DET Secondary Butterflies Control System (biosehnsucht)

Postby sip » Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:32 pm

Man, i'm glad mine csme with a CA18DET stock so i don't have to understand that color diagram.

I assume mine are working. Is there really any way too tell for sure?

How would a piggyback ECU or a standalone effect this?

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Postby niscort » Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:25 pm




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davidricardo86
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Re: (slidecrave)

Postby davidricardo86 » Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:57 pm

Nah dude its cool. I was just saying that with the diagrams you should pretty much be able to figure it out.

Well look at that, an actual live picture!

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mbmbmb23
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Postby mbmbmb23 » Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:47 pm

I pulled a bunch of stuff from a pulsar today, both check valves, surge tank, and 4 solenoids. The solenoids are different than the new peice posted above (14956VA), they are like the 14956V units that connect to the yellow diagram hose near the turbo. Anyhow, 4 of these can be sourced under/around the stock airbox. I grabbed these and will go back for the pinch bracket thing that held the tank (it was rivetted to the bracket that holds the charcoal canister to the firewall and I didnt have a drill to drill them out). Once I get this part I'll put it onto a fabbed peice that will bolt to the strut tower.

Anyhow, anyone know which plug on the harness connects to this solenoid? Is it on the upper or lower harness?

thanks,

-Matt

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Re: (mbmbmb23)

Postby missionsix43 » Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:56 pm

mbmbmb23 wrote:I pulled a bunch of stuff from a pulsar today
Nice, I found a nx se at the junkyard the other day. I got that vacuum tank, and cracked it in half. Then i got the solenoids and put them into the trunk of a taurus.

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Re: (missionsix43)

Postby burntricer » Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:59 am

Part Number: 1495627M00 List Price Your Price VALVE ASSY-SOLE $98.12 $73.59

Part Number: 22372V6700 List Price Your Price TANK-VACUUM $24.95 $18.71

Part Number: 14958H9910 List Price Your Price CHECK VALVE $15.15 $11.36

Part Number: 14958V6700 List Price Your Price VALVE ASSY VACU $15.12 $11.34

Part Number: 1495635F10 List Price Your Price Emission system - Emission system - Solenoid valve Solenoid valve 1989 - 1990 $90.13 $67.60

theres the prices

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mikerbike
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Re:

Postby mikerbike » Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:01 pm

Does anyone have any dyno charts of before and after removing the system completely, like taking out the butterlies and plugging the hole?

I haven't got my CA in yet, but on the KA, It made a noticable difference in top end power. Of course, that engine didn't need much of a booster in the low end...

Anyway, I'm debating taking it off before I install the engine. Any opinions, experiences?

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The_Chosen_One
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Postby The_Chosen_One » Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:14 pm

On the CA with the butterflies removed you lost 25 ft/lbs down below.

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mikerbike
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Re: (The_Chosen_One)

Postby mikerbike » Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:42 pm

I completely understand that I'll lose some low RPM torque, but it might be worth it (for me) if there's a significant gain in top end HP.

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Re: (mikerbike)

Postby dattodude » Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:56 am

run more boost....that's how you make more top end.

The car spends 85% of it's time in the low end for a street car. And in a heavy S13, you need all the torque you can get.

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The_Chosen_One
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Postby The_Chosen_One » Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:21 am

Not to mention your turbo probably will lose steam up top and your stock cams wont make power of there.

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biosehnsucht
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Postby biosehnsucht » Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:33 pm

BUMP! For new method #3!

Simpler and just as good (or better, if your hoses, solenoid, valves or tank are questionable) as OEM!

I'm running this now, and apparently something was not working as it should have (leak or such), because having bypassed all that stock crap, and simplified it to just this setup, the car is MUCH more responsive. I'm having to adjust the way I shift ...

The pump I pulled from a Volvo only cost me like $20 at the junk yard too.

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Postby r34 gtr » Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:06 pm

You guys have your fun with those butterfly valves. When I get my car tuned at the end of the month you'll all be like ZOMG!!!

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The_Chosen_One
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Postby The_Chosen_One » Fri Apr 04, 2008 5:19 pm

yup ZOMG no low end HHHHWWHHHYYYYYY.

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Re: (The_Chosen_One)

Postby articzap » Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:26 am

I'm not one to pump old threads, but I have something I'm going to try. Right now my car is down from a blown water pump, but when it gets back up and running I'm going to try wiring up the factory cruise control vacuum pump from our cars to open and close the butterflies. I have the wiring diagram in my hand, I just got to get the car running to test it out. For proper testing I'm going to hook up my boost gauge to monitor activity.

EDIT: Would it be better to wire it so the pump is always on when the cars on so its not always being turned on and off? It might save the pump that way.
Modified by articzap at 11:46 AM 7/5/2008

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Re: (articzap)

Postby zmannz » Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:17 am

So you want to make it keep the butterflies open all the time?

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Re: (zmannz)

Postby articzap » Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:29 am

No. Why would you want to do that?

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Re: (zmannz)

Postby boost_boy » Sun Jul 06, 2008 12:32 pm

zmannz wrote:So you want to make it keep the butterflies open all the time?
Mine are always open! When you're building serious power, there's no time to play with the prissy little butterfly system, but to each his own. Unless you're driven Ms. Daisy around and trying to catch-up or regain some torque on the engine you've dumped (KA24), this butterfly system is near invisible. I say to all, get your car running right and see if you have the need to chase torque on an engine that's worthless on torque in the lower rpm range. Good luck to you guys on this one !

Dee

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Re: (boost_boy)

Postby articzap » Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:46 pm

How does the gray wire coming from the ECU control the butterflies? Is it a ground or 12v source? Does the wire allow voltage to flow below the crossover point or above it?

Currently when monitoring with boost gauge in netural, it won't build vacuum. If I turn the engine off it works fine. I'm confused. Please help.

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Re: (articzap)

Postby articzap » Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:48 pm

I haven't taken it for a drive yet, but I got the butteryflies working with my S13 cruise control vacuum pump. I will post the wiring diagram later.

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Re: CA18DET Secondary Butterflies Control System

Postby cbh148 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:23 pm

Sorry to bring back a thread from the dead, but hey, better than just making a new one and getting flamed for not searching right?

So what's the verdict on the butterflies nowadays? I don't think I have any of the equipment for this whole system with my swap and I'm beginning to worry :ohno: . I see it looks like Dee doesn't have much faith in them, which is good news to me because I'd love to just cap all this stuff and forget about that mess, but I don't want to miss out on any worthwhile HP/TQ at the same time.

What do you guys recommend for me? My simple setup: gt28r, fmic, 10 psi, stock ECU, stock cams, Walbro 255 fuel pump, aftermarket catback and downpipe, stock MAF, no safc crap. Will be used for some drift events and some street driving. Perhaps on down the road I will get Nistune, injectors, FPR, electronic boost controller, and shoot for 18 psi.

Thanks!

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D_Stirls
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Re: CA18DET Secondary Butterflies Control System

Postby D_Stirls » Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:50 pm


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louiswun
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Re: CA18DET Secondary Butterflies Control System

Postby louiswun » Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:00 am

I know this is an old post, just want to share for someone who still want to make his secondary butterflies control system work correctly, I intended to take this 2 video for my customer to show him after I have done the wiring and hose correctly.
By the time I took this car, all the vaccume hose related to the control system is "T" togather, and the solenoids valve was left alone without any hose connected and no plug, this chassis is same as EDM 200SX, so no plug and no harness for the secondary butterflies control system, original ECU is also EDM ECU 23710-44FXX.
Befoe taking this video, I had use a hand held vaccume/pressure pump to verify the accuator and all linkage works fine, all solenoids valve hose connected like factory, adding a plug and wire to ECU pin 8 and power source.

Current set up :
JDM CA18DET engine with JDM ECU 23710-36F00
The Greddy boost gauge is connected to the intake plenum
The Zeitronix pressure sensor is "T" with the secondary butterflies control system accuator hose

Sorry for speaking Chinese language inside, this video is intended to take for my customer, watching this video require facebook account .
http://www.facebook.com/#!/video/video. ... 6854046989
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php ... 7612101989

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roast
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Re: CA18DET Secondary Butterflies Control System

Postby roast » Sat Jul 16, 2011 7:19 am

Great video's and simple detective work, under no load the butterflies are opening around 5200rpm?

Did you do a similar test with load?

I don't remember anyone mapping the butterfly actuation table for the JDM ECU's...


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