CA18det NOT running (no fuel) nned help!

[Zzca18deTzZ]

i added a reply to another post but was advised to start a new thread. sorry about all that admins. anyway... here is my issue. my car car is getting spark. the fuel pump is priming and is sending fuel through the fuel lines. i dont know about the fuel pressure if there isnt enough or if there is just a bad wiring prob. somewhere but the injectors are not sending fuel or not sending enough fuel. when i try to start the car it will crank but never turn over. i did spray starter fluid in the intake which does cause the car to turn over... for about 3 seconds. any input? i think its a wiring issue cause the car has had a known issue with that... thats why im looking for a new harness. i guess it could be furl pressure too. anyway, any input is needed! thanks for your help guys

-Sean

[boost_boy]

i added a reply to another post but was advised to start a new thread. sorry about all that admins. anyway... here is my issue. my car car is getting spark. the fuel pump is priming and is sending fuel through the fuel lines. i dont know about the fuel pressure if there isnt enough or if there is just a bad wiring prob. somewhere but the injectors are not sending fuel or not sending enough fuel. when i try to start the car it will crank but never turn over. i did spray starter fluid in the intake which does cause the car to turn over... for about 3 seconds. any input? i think its a wiring issue cause the car has had a known issue with that... thats why im looking for a new harness. i guess it could be furl pressure too. anyway, any input is needed! thanks for your help guys

-Sean

Do you have an injector resistor? I'm in Georgia at the moment, but if I were closer, I'd solve that problem for you. And if you harness is screwed-up (hoperfully it is not), worst case scenario would be dead ecu. But I doubt if that's your dilemma. Take your time and go over everything again to make sure it's done correctly.

Dee

[bias]

Welcome to Nico! I'm in Greensboro. I just got my Ca last year I should be driving it soon. You said you ave 440cc injectors? What size MAf do you have is it stock? I have heard that when you increase the injector size and/or MAF you have to run a piggy back or stand alone to get things to run right. I'm not sure but maybe someone with more experience could respond. Has it ever been running? If so what happened when it stopped. Did the previous owner take anything off the car before they sold it to you?

[Zzca18deTzZ]

The car ran at one point and a local shop re-did the wiring in it... looks like crap but they previous owner and the shop said that it ran... then the turbo locked up. (turbo is in the process of being fixed... and like they say... if its broke its just an excuse to upgrade ) but no the prev. did not take anything off the car. as far as i know the MAF is stock, but from what i hear the MAF shouldnt really prevent the car from starting. and yes there are 440cc injectors in it... and a DSM injector resistor like the one in a previous forum. i have actually found a harness to purchase (not telling where cause they are INCREDIBALLY hard to find) so if it is the harness its about to be completly re-done... the right/clean way.-Sean

[Zzca18deTzZ]

still need help. im freaking desperate!

[50-50]

getting spark = ecu, ca sensor workinggetting fuel thru lines = pump working

ok then it should at least try to start. maybe the fuel lines going to the motor are mixed up, u know, feed line on the regulator instead of the return line being there.

[Zzca18deTzZ]

getting spark = ecu, ca sensor workinggetting fuel thru lines = pump working

ok then it should at least try to start. maybe the fuel lines going to the motor are mixed up, u know, feed line on the regulator instead of the return line being there.

im almost positive i did that already. but i will try it again. ive checked A LOT of stuff that has to do with the mechanical part of the motor. and a good bit with the electrical thats why its so frustrating! im almost positive its something in the wiring harness. but if anyone else has some ideas let me know.

-Sean

[candyredtd]

I had the same problem as you are having.

Here is a couple of things you can try. Try each on on there own and write down or record your results as in if it started to fire or not and how many kicks before it started to fire. You may also want to get a spare battery to jump off. I went through a truck battery trying to fix mine.

1) Check your temp sensor, not sure of the value of hand but it is in the work shop manual and should be a certain amount on the multimeter if this sensor is not right it will not fire no matter what.

Resoultion to this is simple replace your temp sensor2) Take all your sparkies out and make sure they are dry. Put them back in you can leave the coil packs off then and crank her about two to three times. Pull the sparkies back out and inspect them. Make sure they are wet but not to wet. They may be getting to much fuel if they are soaking wet after three cranks or so.

Resoultion is injectors need servicing and or the O rings are farked. This could also be a faulty ECU among other things but usually it is the first things mentioned.

3) This will probably give you the most idea of what is going on. Get a pair of plastic hose clamps. The kind you can squeeze down on a rubber hose and then clip them in place to remain constant pressure on the hose. Locate your return fuel line and clamp it so the hose is about half the size in diamater. Crank the car again to see if it starts to fire.

Resolution is if you here her start to bang and sound like she wants to go it is generally a fuel pressure problem. Could be your fuel pump, FPR or leaky injectors.

Give this a shot I have a few other things to go through so let us know how you go.

[candyredtd]

Further to this I highly doubt it would be the entire wiring of the car as it would not get spark and fuel then. There are obviously things that can lead into from this but the main thing is she is priming has fuel and spark so you can assume it is wired correctly but maybe there a few missed things. As an example your ignitor wiring could be loose or crumpled and this would case your sparkies to fire either inconsistently or stronger on one or two plugs then the other and hence not enabling it fire.

[Zzca18deTzZ]

candyredtd thanks A BUNCH!!! ive posted this prob on a couple forums and this is by far the best response i have got. thanks for taking the time to write all that stuff down man! im gonna try all those things as soon as it stops monsooning here in charlotte. ill def let you know what happens hopefully i can get a solid chance to work on it here in the next couple days. thanks again bro

-Sean

[mbmbmb23]

Sean, I would trace the wire harness back to the ECU and make sure the connections are good and theres no break in the wiring from someone splicing in a piggyback computer (SAFC, etc.). If it has 440cc injectors and a stock ECU then it probably had a piggyback at some point and that requires hacking into the fuel control wiring.

Besides that you could always take each injector out of the head one by one still connected to the harness and have someone crank it to see if it squirts gas. It'll be a fine mist so you'd wanna squirt it on a peice of colored paper (think construction paper) to see if the paper darkens from the mist.....kinda MacGyver ghetto but I dont see why it wouldnt work.

-Matt (from CN)

[dattodude]

Got the fuel lines on the correct way? :-) Sounds stupid..but I've seen it done. And it's hard to diagnose such a basic mistake.

[Zzca18deTzZ]

i have already traced wires to the ecu from an SAFCII that was hooked up by the previous owner. the shop replace all the wires that were spliced into. they did a ****ty job at it but they did it. as far as the injector test i STILL need to do that but i wanna make sure its not something simple before i pull back the injectors. anyway, im def gonna try and do something with it this weekend. cause i need it running asap.ill keep yall posted.

-Sean

[Zzca18deTzZ]

1) Check your temp sensor, not sure of the value of hand but it is in the work shop manual and should be a certain amount on the multimeter if this sensor is not right it will not fire no matter what.

Resoultion to this is simple replace your temp sensor

just curious but did you ever find out what the reading is suppose to be. i think im gonna try and check the sensor tomarrow. also... if i decide to get a new one is that one of the parts that cooresponds b/y the ca18de and ca18det? (can i go get it from the local parts store) if not where do i need to order it from.thanks

-Sean

[boost_boy]

Did you confirm if your injectors are getting pulse? If they are not, then I would definitely be looking at the SAFC or the ecu itself. Bad wiring jobs cause muchas headaches and some screwed-up ecus. Get that stuff taking care, but first, inspect the parts that were mentioned.

Dee

[float_6969]

Just to clarify, you DO have something to control those larger injectors, right?

[Zzca18deTzZ]

yeah yall might have misunderstood. the previous owner had a SAFC on the car which he took off. the ecu wires were fixed though. i ALSO have a SAFCII which i have not yet hooked up to the car. So the car DOES have fuel managment just not hooked to the car yet.

-Sean

[float_6969]

Well if you've got 440's in there there car is going to run really badly as it will be over fueling, maybe even not start.

Have you checked to make sure the injectors are getting voltage? There is a solid wire, and a striped wire at each injector. Using a multimeter (volt meter), place the positive test lead on the solid wire and the negative wire on the negative battery terminal, or some other ground source (intake manifold, etc). With the igntion in the "run" position, you should have approx 12VDC.

If you don't, then there is a problem w/the dropping resistor, if you do, then it would be likely that the ECU isn't firing the injectors.

[Zzca18deTzZ]

yeah i have checked voltage to the injectors and they were fine. and we did the screw driver test to see if the injectors were ticking, and they were. so you think there is a possiblity that b/c there isnt a SAFC (or fuel mangmnt, period) hooked up that it might not run at all with those big injectors?man this job is getting more and more in depth after every post, lol.

-Sean

[beans33]

My Ca has dsm 450's and it starts up and idles, with no safc. Yea its running rich but I would think that with 440s it should still start up. I understand all motors arent exactly the same but just something to think about. I would put my money on the wiring. If the pump is priming then its atleast getting to the fuel rail. I would look at the wiring by the battery in the front, If you have to, do it over it again, that way YOU know its right .good luck

[float_6969]

Have you tried removing the return line and making sure that fuel is getting upto and through the fuel rail and regulator?

[Zzca18deTzZ]

have tracked the fuel lines pretty much all the way through. and it does appear that fuel is going through the fuel rail. ive been kinnda slow to do some of these checks as i have been working A LOT the last couple days. im gonna TRY and check some stuff out tomarrow and/or monday. if someone could help me though im trying to find the temp sensor cause i might go ahead and replace that. i know the RB's sensor is near the radiator hose on the intake manifold and im pretty sure the CA would be the same way but i cant seem to find it. also will a usdm ca18de temp sensor work on the ca18det? anywho hopefully more prgress to come in the next couple days or so. thanks guys!anymore ideas/feedback is WELCOME!!!

-Sean

[Masterdebater]

hmmm...well im running 440s on my ca too but my ecu has been tuned but i was told it wasnt tuned for fuel...so urs should still run too but also im sure uve mentioned but i didnt see but do u have an injector resistor? -make sure ur main fuel lines arent crossed, filter to rail, and the return line from the regulator to metal line leading back to tank.-and if u changed ur fuel pump to a higher pressure rated one, make sure the two hoses back there from pump arent crossed either. -check and make sure u dont have the injector harness mixed up between injectors. -then check ur ignition wiring and whatnot when u had to wire to the chassis. (brown and grey connectors up by headlight) and timing-after that id try having that safc hooked up and try running it then. i have the same setup as u except i have the ecu tuned and mine runs fine besides the fact i spun a bearing lol. and u say that ur injectors were firing too. if i think of anything else ill post it.

[Zzca18deTzZ]

Quick question... and i might start a new thread on this anyhow, but... what are the ground wires that are grounded to the intake manifold for? its the grounds on the right side of the manifold, and they are coming from the injector sub harness.

-Sean

[Masterdebater]

those are in fact the injector ground my good sir lolone wire is bigger than the other and they bolt right next to each other correct? if so then yes those are injector grounds and need to be grounded haha

[Zzca18deTzZ]

ok i was right! i was having a dispute with a buddy on what they were and i said they were injector grounds. i was looking around for some obvious stuff the other day and i came across those. they were screwed in but not tight at all. half a turn and the bolts holding them in would come out. ok sweet j/w it was night time when i saw that. i am gonna be working on her for a good bit today and see if i can make progress. thanks for the help and wish me luck since this is the first solid day since i started this thread that i am gonna be able to work on it.

-Sean

[float_6969]

I'm at work, and so I don't have a FSM to check, but how would they be injector grounds? The injectors are grounded through the ECU. That's how they are turned on and off.

It goes like this;battery->ignition switch->resistor pack->injector->ecu->ground

[Zzca18deTzZ]

I'm at work, and so I don't have a FSM to check, but how would they be injector grounds? The injectors are grounded through the ECU. That's how they are turned on and off.

It goes like this;battery->ignition switch->resistor pack->injector->ecu->ground

True. well it didnt make a difference anyway. i tried a bunch of stuff today and i got no where. re-checked the fuel lines. put new gas in it just in case the gas in it was old. made sure the injector plugs were in the right order. checked the spark plugs. i would really like to replace the temp. sensor but no one has answered me about the temp. sensor. i need to know if the temp sensor in the ca18de is the same as the ca18det. i would REALLY like to get this thing on the road soon otherwise a part out might be in order. the more and more i check stuff the more and more i think its the ECU.anyway if you have any more ideas let me know.

-Sean

[float_6969]

I would think the next step would be to get a logic probe and make sure the ECU is firing the injectors. Even if it was firing them in the wrong order, you should eventually get enough fuel in the cylinder to get it to turn over.

[Masterdebater]

ive looked at a few wiring diagrams and wire labels for the ca and those were labeled as injector grounds. they could be wrong u never know but they could just be extra grounds for that whole upper harness even tho they are grounded through the ecu. i didnt think that would have solved ur prob anyway just pull the dam injectors or whole rail and see if u can get it to spray fuel onto paper to make sure its ur fuel.