CA18DET ignition map - screenshots - power gains

Post by **CA19DET** » Thu May 19, 2005 8:49 am

i got a new ignition map for my CA18DET done, based on a post in the bestof 240sx on freshalloy.com (ignition map tuning on haltech or something), now this was more towards tuning a SR, and i got the maps down usingthe .75* for every pound of boost equation, and i also got some sample maps from Enthalpy for SR's and KA's, he is the one that really explained itall very well...

but anywho, i was looking through my haltech system on ym caryesterdaya cause i thought i had a TPS sensor problem,a nd i did, TPS and water Temp both showed faults... fixed them and took it for a drive, good,allot better...

then i got brave.. i decided let me look at my stock maps VS the ignitionmap i built using scotts maps and theory.. it was way different.. but i thought, WHY NOT ..

loaded the above maps and what a difference... first thing i noticed was the start, crisp , the idle, smooooother, revs quicker...hmm, i am going to take it for a drive, listening for detonation... wow, fater efinately off boost, and on boost, WHOA > no detonation, infact the engine reved quicker to redline.. i defeinately picked up some power, i want to go to the dyno to check it out..

i wanted to post to see if anyone was using similar timing maps, i know people dont ususally share these kinda things, but i am interested to see what poeple are using... and more so anyone with expoerience, what they think of the map.. is it safe, too much, too little, comapred to other maps??

my set up is T3/T4, 260* cams, 550's,and the usuall bolt ons etc.. 15psi..

comments welcomed

Post by **boost_boy** » Thu May 19, 2005 9:48 am

CA19DET wrote:

i got a new ignition map for my CA18DET done, based on a post in the bestof 240sx on freshalloy.com (ignition map tuning on haltech or something), now this was more towards tuning a SR, and i got the maps down usingthe .75* for every pound of boost equation, and i also got some sample maps from Enthalpy for SR's and KA's, he is the one that really explained itall very well...

but anywho, i was looking through my haltech system on ym caryesterdaya cause i thought i had a TPS sensor problem,a nd i did, TPS and water Temp both showed faults... fixed them and took it for a drive, good,allot better...

then i got brave.. i decided let me look at my stock maps VS the ignitionmap i built using scotts maps and theory.. it was way different.. but i thought, WHY NOT ..

loaded the above maps and what a difference... first thing i noticed was the start, crisp , the idle, smooooother, revs quicker...hmm, i am going to take it for a drive, listening for detonation... wow, fater efinately off boost, and on boost, WHOA > no detonation, infact the engine reved quicker to redline.. i defeinately picked up some power, i want to go to the dyno to check it out..

i wanted to post to see if anyone was using similar timing maps, i know people dont ususally share these kinda things, but i am interested to see what poeple are using... and more so anyone with expoerience, what they think of the map.. is it safe, too much, too little, comapred to other maps??

my set up is T3/T4, 260* cams, 550's,and the usuall bolt ons etc.. 15psi..

comments welcomed

Hey Aaron, be careful when using SR and KA programs to run your engine. KAs and SRs use amore aggressive timing slope and have different detonation points. There's not too many more SR users in south florida that I'm familiar with. Everyone seem to be boostin' the KA and the RB series using haltec systems, but I assure you the KA maps my people use will probably cause death to an RB or CA.

Dee

Post by **CA19DET** » Thu May 19, 2005 10:28 am

thats why i wanted opinions, my engien is not detonating, and yes this map may eb alittle agressive, but it made a HUGE differnece...

i would like to compare it to your ignition map Dee if thats ok, or compare it to anyone elses...

anyone else willing to share maps??

Post by **float_6969** » Thu May 19, 2005 8:25 pm

I don't have any yet, but I hope to soon.

Post by **Turbogixxer** » Thu May 19, 2005 11:44 pm

CA19DET, Whats your bore? injector size?

Post by **boost_boy** » Fri May 20, 2005 7:25 am

CA19DET wrote:thats why i wanted opinions, my engien is not detonating, and yes this map may eb alittle agressive, but it made a HUGE differnece...

i would like to compare it to your ignition map Dee if thats ok, or compare it to anyone elses...

anyone else willing to share maps??

I can give you some ignition and fuel #s from my 50lb/hr injector program, but I don't know how much good it will do. let me know and I can try and email you what did what at a particular RPM. My SDS system doesn't have that type of datalogging, but I can give you the parameters I set.

Dee

Post by **CA19DET** » Fri May 20, 2005 8:40 am

Turbogixxer wrote:CA19DET, Whats your bore? injector size?

stock CA18DE block (no oil squirters), Stock CA18DET Pistons and Rods, RC Engineering 550's.. T3/T04E 50 Trim 15psi.. Tomei 260 ProCam Kit.

man this car is way faster than before... put it on evo 5 last night (that i have raced before), 4 races, got to launch with him only once at a traffic light side-by-side, of course he got me on the launch by about a car lenght, but every gear change i realed him in, by 3rd he was mine, he couldnt belive it was a 1.8L, swore it was a "ess arrr twenny" or one of those "race breeds", i had to pop the hood for him at the gas stop he was like > i was like - sucker

DEE

i would like to see the Fuel maps .. or better yet, i'll pot mine so peopel can compare them with my ignition maps..

oh yeah i am running 95 Premium... occasionally some C16 or Sunoco Race fuel...

Post by **mbmbmb23** » Fri May 20, 2005 9:04 am

So how would this map hold up on the same setup....but without cams??? Just curious.

What plugs/gap are you using?

-m

Post by **TeckniX** » Fri May 20, 2005 1:39 pm

What map editor are you using? <- nevermind I saw haltech.. Where did you find the map? Was this a pre-loaded?I can only see fuel maps but timing is huge... just wondering :P

Post by **CA19DET** » Mon May 23, 2005 10:16 am

i am running NGK BKR7's 0.028" gap

i dont know about using this map without cams..

its a map based on one for a modified SR's with similar mods, i changed it up a bit but basically is the same thing.. the car is running great!!!!!!!!!!! this map is NOTHING like the stock map sent to me by the guys at haltech.. this one is way smoother when you watch it as a graph or in 3d... the maps i had before were all over the palce, and the stock one was WAY more conservatice... the car also drives SO much better off boost and part throttle it is amazing..

the idle is smoother, more vaccum at idle, revs for the first time ever to 8500rpm without slowing down at the high rpms at all.. i am very happy and there is races this weeknd and the car is in the shop getting ready to race this weekend.. i'll see what times i can do..

Post by **Turbogixxer** » Thu May 26, 2005 5:07 pm

Generally, I never use other maps from other car as a base map for a few reasons.

The Fuel is always off, you spent more time correcting it then making your own map.

As for ignition timing. The amount of timing can be different for different reasons. Ex: if the bore is bigger, you want to run more timming then a smaller bore. The flame has to travel across the bore, the bugger it is, the more time it will take to move across.

Different compression ratios like different amount of timing. Generally, less compression, more timing you can run with knock. Also, generally, you want more timing when you run a leaner mixture at idle and cruising.

As you can see, that why I start off with my own maps. You need to tune your car, do not run off that map for too long.

Post by **CA19DET** » Fri May 27, 2005 7:33 am

Turbogixxer wrote:Generally, I never use other maps from other car as a base map for a few reasons.

The Fuel is always off, you spent more time correcting it then making your own map.

As for ignition timing. The amount of timing can be different for different reasons. Ex: if the bore is bigger, you want to run more timming then a smaller bore. The flame has to travel across the bore, the bugger it is, the more time it will take to move across.

Different compression ratios like different amount of timing. Generally, less compression, more timing you can run with knock. Also, generally, you want more timing when you run a leaner mixture at idle and cruising.

As you can see, that why I start off with my own maps. You need to tune your car, do not run off that map for too long.

well, i am going to keep running it no matter what you suggest - no offense

why not post your ignition maps you created from scratch and lets compare them... what timing you run at -20vac, 0 boost and 15psi boost?? lets see the difference??/

i checked my A/F ratios with my buddies AUTRONIC wideband O2 and guess what, 12-11.5 all the way across... perfect...

it is NOT a base map from another car, it is a tuned map for a SR that i modified for my CA

anyway.

i did my own fuel maps on the dyno so i know those are spot on now.. so i am NOT using a SR fuel map or anything like that...

the car is really running good.. dont hate on the timing map just cause its not from an original CA, if i didnt post anything about it beigne from another engine i am sure the comments would be allot different..

and no where in this post does anyone say they find i am running too much timing in vaccum or too much advance at full throtte at a specific load... eveyone seems more pre occupied with the fact its a SR/KA hybrid map that i customised and am using on my CA..

but anyway, its working MUCH better than the dyno tunned timing map i was running before which was MUCH more conservative, and the fact the car drives better..... makes everyday feel like firday,

Post by **Turbogixxer** » Fri May 27, 2005 12:13 pm

CA19DET wrote: why not post your ignition maps you created from scratch and lets compare them... what timing you run at -20vac, 0 boost and 15psi boost?? lets see the difference??/

Compare what? Without running the same excat set-up as you AND the same conditions, it is dumb to compare. Comparing maps is for weak tuners that do not know what/why timing should be were it is. Learn what effect timing have on the engine at different loads, you will unterstand why is dumb to compare maps.

The only maps what are somewhat "comparable" are vacuum maps on the same set-up.

CA19DET wrote: i checked my A/F ratios with my buddies AUTRONIC wideband O2 and guess what, 12-11.5 all the way across... perfect...

You can still have knock at rich mixture conditions, A/f is only about half the tune.

CA19DET wrote: dont hate on the timing map just cause its not from an original CA, if i didnt post anything about it beigne from another engine i am sure the comments would be allot different..

No, it is still dumb to "compare" timing maps. Learn why you should run more timing or less and you will never need to compare maps..........

CA19DET wrote: and no where in this post does anyone say they find i am running too much timing in vaccum or too much advance at full throtte at a specific load... eveyone seems more pre occupied with the fact its a SR/KA hybrid map that i customised and am using on my CA..

Where did I say you have to add or take timing away? I said generally. I do not care what motor the map came from, I am talking about your comparing maps.

Post by **boost_boy** » Sat May 28, 2005 7:21 am

Just a bit of advice for anyone seeking to use to do their own ignition timing thinga-majiggy, the CA18DET engine is not at all happy with high total timing. The same applies to RB series engines. You want to peak at maps, look at those of the RB series that' spossibly using a standalone or some effective method of recording the engine's vital statistics.

I've seen too many good tuners with one engine series, go and blow-up someone else's motor because they applied the same or nearly the same techniques and parameters for their own particular application. You all are entitled to do whatever you want with your stuff. Far as I'm concerned, blow it up . We are all here to learn as much as we can from each other as well as share with one another information that may be pertinent to your goal. If one doesn't like the advice, fine. But it will be pretty hard to get any sound advice later if bridges are burned.

Once again, the CA18DET performs much better without a lot of ignition advance and this I do know . This post is general information and not directed at any of the participants. However, if you can benefit from some of this information, then I'm glad to have been of some help.

Dee

Dee

Post by **float_6969** » Sat May 28, 2005 9:00 am

Although I know that you've givin this # before Dee, would you be so kind as to re-enlighten us as to your personal reccomendation of the highest amount of total timing you would run on a CA

Post by **boost_boy** » Sat May 28, 2005 3:38 pm

float_6969 wrote:Although I know that you've givin this # before Dee, would you be so kind as to re-enlighten us as to your personal reccomendation of the highest amount of total timing you would run on a CA

This # can vary due to the addition of cams, bigger turbo, blah, blah. But my recommendation for safe, but effective total timing is 24degrees BTDC. Keep in mind there will be areas of retard that will reduce this # at either a specified map level or rpm. Numbers are just what they are #s, you just have to be prepared to try something different with your set-up if this doesn't work for you.

Dee

Post by **Turbogixxer** » Sat May 28, 2005 5:11 pm

boost_boy wrote:I've seen too many good tuners with one engine series, go and blow-up someone else's motor because they applied the same or nearly the same techniques and parameters for their own particular application.

No offence to the tuners in question, but if they do not understand why you need to run different timing maps on different motors (different VE, cams, etc), then they need to understand it to tune. Anyone can hit + or - with luck and call them selvies tuners (not tlaking about any one in this thread)........

boost_boy wrote:You all are entitled to do whatever you want with your stuff. Far as I'm concerned, blow it up . We are all here to learn as much as we can from each other as well as share with one another information that may be pertinent to your goal. If one doesn't like the advice, fine. But it will be pretty hard to get any sound advice later if bridges are burned.

Once again, the CA18DET performs much better without a lot of ignition advance and this I do know . This post is general information and not directed at any of the participants. However, if you can benefit from some of this information, then I'm glad to have been of some help.

When I think you hated me for sure, you say that. You are making it hard for me to hate on you, maaaaaaan. :-p (if I am reading it right)

boost_boy wrote:This # can vary due to the addition of cams, bigger turbo, blah, blah.

Different VE points on the motor, bore, octane of gas, just a few.

float_6969 wrote:Although I know that you've givin this # before Dee, would you be so kind as to re-enlighten us as to your personal reccomendation of the highest amount of total timing you would run on a CA

There is no number to give. Different motors (and set-ups) require different timing maps.

Basicly you are looking for Max. Brake Torque, or MBT. MBT is the point where the mixture is making the most power (and all the of the mixture is getting burned). The point(s) before and after MBT will make less power (READ: the mixture is not getting burned completely).

Now, using that on a dyno. Like I said above, it will be making the most power at MBT, so you will retard the timing, then slowly add it to you find MBT. With saying that, more timing you run, the higer the cylinder pressures will be (more heat), thus the motor will not last as long as the same motor with less timing.

You are do the same with fuel too......

I only explain alittle bit, there is more to tuning then most people think.

Post by **boost_boy** » Sun May 29, 2005 5:05 am

Turbogixxer wrote:
No offence to the tuners in question, but if they do not understand why you need to run different timing maps on different motors (different VE, cams, etc), then they need to understand it to tune. Anyone can hit + or - with luck and call them selvies tuners (not tlaking about any one in this thread)........

When I think you hated me for sure, you say that. You are making it hard for me to hate on you, maaaaaaan. :-p (if I am reading it right) Dude, I don't hate you! You may be a prick at times , but we all have that tendency. When you make sense, you make sense and there's no need for intervention. I've come to the conclusion that you know enough to do your thing, so "No" I'm not hating on you and never will.

Different VE points on the motor, bore, octane of gas, just a few.

There is no number to give. Different motors (and set-ups) require different timing maps.

Basicly you are looking for Max. Brake Torque, or MBT. MBT is the point where the mixture is making the most power (and all the of the mixture is getting burned). The point(s) before and after MBT will make less power (READ: the mixture is not getting burned completely).

Now, using that on a dyno. Like I said above, it will be making the most power at MBT, so you will retard the timing, then slowly add it to you find MBT. With saying that, more timing you run, the higer the cylinder pressures will be (more heat), thus the motor will not last as long as the same motor with less timing.

You are do the same with fuel too......

I only explain alittle bit, there is more to tuning then most people think.

Hey-Hey, I tune with +/- and +10/-10s, but I actually did a crap load of research. I actually had the help of a good haltech tuner who tune on SR20DET set-ups and is now the tuner of KA24DE(T). His accomplishments are tning some of the highest HP KAs around with figures such as 571whp, 580ish whp, 631whp, etc,etc. This individual also helped me with my SDS system in the beginning, but the thing drove horribly. I let him keep my car for a whole day trying to stop it from breaking-up in the 5200+rpm range, but to no avail. When I finally took my car and scanned through my programmer, some of the #s in the ignition map sector went as high as 32 degrees.

Even at that point, I knew that was partly the problem, so I tuned downwards till I got things cleared-up. The car ran good, felt good, but I knew it wasn't at it's best until I put it on a dynomometer to see where my A/F ratio was at what rpm/boost pressure, etc, etc. The point I'm making is he tuned my car as if it were an SR20DET or a KA24 and the CA is anti to those engines parameters. It may feel good now, but when ringlands crank, it usually goes unnoticed for a while (but the damage is done). I have not destroyed a piston since I've been tuning SDS systems. I'm no specialist, but SDS is what I preferer to work with. I can't say for the others, but I do understand terminology, figures, parameters, does and don'ts.

Post by **boost_boy** » Sun May 29, 2005 5:25 am

Hey Turbogixxer, the one thing I don't do and I have no need to do and that is hate on you or anyone for that matter. You are free to express your views and share your knowledge and at times, get into a heated debate. When you're right or close to it, you're right or I don't have a thing to say. But when you're being a prick and we all have that tendency, I'll usually chime in and try and defuse the situation. I have no reason to hate you man or hate on you or the knowledge that you've acquired and besides that, my mother didn't teach me hate nor was it taught in grade school nor in the marine corps, not practiced by myself nor my children, so it's not in my vocabulary .

Dee

Post by **Turbogixxer** » Mon May 30, 2005 10:50 am

boost_boy wrote:Hey-Hey, I tune with +/- and +10/-10s,

Honestly, the reason I do not use the "+10/-10" way is that some motor will not benefit a lot by having a lot of timing. Some motors I have tuned run little timing, but when you increase the timing, the gain is very little, so you will run the burn hotter for little gain.

boost_boy wrote:I have not destroyed a piston since I've been tuning SDS systems.

This is not directed at you, but most people think that you can only damage the piston with bad tuning. This is not true, you can damage the rod and bearings as well.

http://www.efi101.com offers a GREAT class on tuning. The price seems high, but what you learn is cheaper then most motors. I will be there on Jacksonville if you want to meet me, a $250 value! :-p

boost_boy wrote:Hey Turbogixxer, the one thing I don't do and I have no need to do and that is hate on you or anyone for that matter. You are free to express your views and share your knowledge and at times, get into a heated debate. When you're right or close to it, you're right or I don't have a thing to say. But when you're being a prick and we all have that tendency, I'll usually chime in and try and defuse the situation. I have no reason to hate you man or hate on you or the knowledge that you've acquired and besides that, my mother didn't teach me hate nor was it taught in grade school nor in the marine corps, not practiced by myself nor my children, so it's not in my vocabulary .

Dee

Surprisingly, I am a pretty nice person outside of this site (I know, it seems impossible). I would not mind checking out your ride.

Post by **boost_boy** » Mon May 30, 2005 2:45 pm

Hey gixxer, I'm pretty sure you're a good guy and someday would love to meet you in person as well as let you scope out the ride. The only person from this forum that ever went for a ride is float's boy who was planning on using the SAFC. The ride is down now, but hope to have it up by this weekend's NOPI event at Moroso (No promises, though). {Back on topic}...

Dee

Post by **sdtouge** » Mon May 30, 2005 5:47 pm

damn turbo gixxer you seem to know your ****.

wanna tune my ecu;) jk

good luck at that class!

Post by **float_6969** » Tue May 31, 2005 2:51 am

You can also get A LOT of tuning info from THIS site...

Post by **fanta** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 4:20 pm

Turbogixxer wrote:http://www.efi101.com offers a GREAT class on tuning. The price seems high, but what you learn is cheaper then most motors. I will be there on Jacksonville if you want to meet me, a $250 value! :-p

I'll be attending the 101 class this weekend.

jasaircraft · Post by **jasaircraft** » Mon May 03, 2021 9:50 am

CA19DET wrote: ↑
Thu May 19, 2005 8:49 am
i got a new ignition map for my CA18DET done, based on a post in the bestof 240sx on freshalloy.com (ignition map tuning on haltech or something), now this was more towards tuning a SR, and i got the maps down usingthe .75* for every pound of boost equation, and i also got some sample maps from Enthalpy for SR's and KA's, he is the one that really explained itall very well...

but anywho, i was looking through my haltech system on ym caryesterdaya cause i thought i had a TPS sensor problem,a nd i did, TPS and water Temp both showed faults... fixed them and took it for a drive, good,allot better...

then i got brave.. i decided let me look at my stock maps VS the ignitionmap i built using scotts maps and theory.. it was way different.. but i thought, WHY NOT ..

loaded the above maps and what a difference... first thing i noticed was the start, crisp , the idle, smooooother, revs quicker...hmm, i am going to take it for a drive, listening for detonation... wow, fater efinately off boost, and on boost, WHOA > no detonation, infact the engine reved quicker to redline.. i defeinately picked up some power, i want to go to the dyno to check it out..

i wanted to post to see if anyone was using similar timing maps, i know people dont ususally share these kinda things, but i am interested to see what poeple are using... and more so anyone with expoerience, what they think of the map.. is it safe, too much, too little, comapred to other maps??

my set up is T3/T4, 260* cams, 550's,and the usuall bolt ons etc.. 15psi..

comments welcomed

Hello did you upload a pic of your ignition map? Because i cant see it for some reason

Post by **float_6969** » Mon May 17, 2021 8:12 am

That user hasn't posted in nearly 10 years. I'm doubtful that they will respond to this. Thanks for searching though!!!

CA18DET ignition map - screenshots - power gains

CA18DET ignition map - screenshots - power gains

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Re: CA18DET ignition map - screenshots - power gains

Re: CA18DET ignition map - screenshots - power gains

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