ca18de-t fwd-rwd (please read)

[wa-chiss]

This might be a stupid question but is the motor the same for fwd as it is for rwd setup. I know the manifolds are probably different. The thing is a shop neer by has a complete CA18DE swap for my car. It's an s13. I thought that the rwd version only came deT. searching through 15 pages on google, trying different filters on this site, I just cant find the answer to the question.

[boost_boy]

This might be a stupid question but is the motor the same for fwd as it is for rwd setup. I know the manifolds are probably different. The thing is a shop neer by has a complete CA18DE swap for my car. It's an s13. I thought that the rwd version only came deT. searching through 15 pages on google, trying different filters on this site, I just cant find the answer to the question.

They are indeed the same (head and block-wise). You will have to move the T-body and the AWD intake manifold is slightly different from the RWD unit (differenes can be worked around). Of course the alternator brackets are different as well as P/S pump and bracket and tensioner. Other than that, you shouldn't have much of a problem using either application for either configuration.

Dee

[float_6969]

If your car is and S13, and the motorset is a JDM CA18DE then it will swap over just like a CA18DET would. Be warned the CA18DE is pretty gutless. If you want to turbocharge it you will need to get some stock cast 8.5:1 pistons, or aftermarket forged pistons. The stock compression on the CA18DE is 9.5:1 and trying to boost it will leave you with a set of trashed pistons unless you run some high octane fuel.

[davidricardo86]

Id say save yourself some troubles and get a ca18det from the start. It'll just be that much easier.

[wa-chiss]

thanks a lot. What got me is he said it was a de swap for my car. Which got me thinking it was rwd, but I thought the rwd versions were only turbo. IDK. I'll be rebuilding the motor before swapping so Changing pistons and stuff to go turbo shouldn't be a concern. Does the DE and/or DET have oil squrters? I think so but can't remember.

[Liquid_Neon]

Pulsar NX ca18des are 10:1 comp... get one of those and cam the hell outta it! then have like 150hp

I should note im not being serious about the cam stuff.

[float_6969]

In Japan, the S13 was available as both a CA18DE and a CA18DET. There were 3 trim levels, J's, Q's, and K's. For the most part, J's were base models, Q's were loaded but lacked the turbo, and the K's were loaded with the turbo.

There ARE differences between USDM CA18DE's and JDM CA18DE's.

There weren't any RWD CA18DE's released in the US, they were all FWD. In Japan, all CA18DE(T)'s had forged rods, piston oil squirter's, and a crank girdle. In the US the FWD CA18DE didn't have forged rods, oil piston squirter's or the crank girdle. It is possible to convert the FWD up to the RWD specs, but you'd need the forged rods, squirter's, and crank girdle from a JDM spec CA18DE(T).

Pulling the oil pan will easily tell you if it's a USDM or JDM motor.

If it's a decent price, I'd pick it up and just go through the bottom end.

[LongGrain]

im currently in the middle of doing a FWD-RWD turbo conversion from a pulsar NX SE. you will need all new motor mount brackets, PS and alt brackets, and a RWD oil pan. you dont need to get the RWD intake mani, if you wanna be a balla run the DE one, its just like an RB manifold. thats what im doin. im using CA18ET mounts and brackets, a DET oil pan and DET fuel rail (the DE fuel rail is stupid) the internals on the DE are not as strong, it lacks a girdle, oil squirters and low compression, instead of going through the trouble of getting oil squirters installed with DET pistons...and still having stock internals...i bought forged pistons. now i just need to find a girdle and my bottom end will be pretty bulletproof.

[wa-chiss]

In Japan, the S13 was available as both a CA18DE and a CA18DET. There were 3 trim levels, J's, Q's, and K's. For the most part, J's were base models, Q's were loaded but lacked the turbo, and the K's were loaded with the turbo.

There ARE differences between USDM CA18DE's and JDM CA18DE's.

There weren't any RWD CA18DE's released in the US, they were all FWD. In Japan, all CA18DE(T)'s had forged rods, piston oil squirter's, and a crank girdle. In the US the FWD CA18DE didn't have forged rods, oil piston squirter's or the crank girdle. It is possible to convert the FWD up to the RWD specs, but you'd need the forged rods, squirter's, and crank girdle from a JDM spec CA18DE(T).

Pulling the oil pan will easily tell you if it's a USDM or JDM motor.

If it's a decent price, I'd pick it up and just go through the bottom end.

honestly I havent seen it yet but I think he gets all his motors from japan. He quoted me $600 for motor, trans, ecu, and harness. I thought it sounded good but wasn't sure. I asked him if the DE and DET were exactly the same and he said yes except the turbo part. So that leads me to think it's a japanese engine.

[float_6969]

If it's really a JDM spec RWD CA18DE for $600, I'd scoop it up in a heartbeat. Pull the oil pan and make sure it's got a crank girdle and piston squirter's. If it does, I'd buy it and plan on a rebuild with forged pistons.

[wa-chiss]

I plan on going to monroe next week to check it out. Work all this week, class starts on the 2nd, and off every other day next week. I need another vacation. I don't want to sound like a noob, but the squirters are in the bottom of the piston? If so all I have to do is get pistons with the holes?

P.S. I have no experience with the Ca and havent had a car with squirters yet. But I do know quite a bit about motors.

[davidricardo86]

Wow. For that price. My vote is to buy it.

Check it out. The oil squirters are going to be in this area. I tried finding the best pics to give you an idea of where to look for them. You cant miss them as they look like little tubes squirtin oil on the cylinder wall.

Heres the bottom of the block.

Head further down.

Look around this area and you'll find it! Look around the other side of the crank too.

[sideways danny]

In Japan, all CA18DE(T)'s had forged rods, piston oil squirter's, and a crank girdle. In the US the FWD CA18DE didn't have forged rods, oil piston squirter's or the crank girdle. It is possible to convert the FWD up to the RWD specs, but you'd need the forged rods, squirter's, and crank girdle from a JDM spec CA18DE(T).

no CA ever came with forged rods from the factory, I've got 5 Jap CAs in my garage, the rods are identical to euro spec which are NOT forged

[float_6969]

This is news to me. The info that I've always been provided stated that it had cast pistons and forged rods. I've seen the difference between the USDM CA18DE rods and the JDM CA18DET rods and they are night and day.

How do you know they're not forged?

[LongGrain]

nope, wiki and a lot of other sources say that the CA18det's have forged internals, but no CA's have factory forged internals.

[davidricardo86]

I've always been under the impression that the crankshaft and connecting rods are forged steel. The pistons are cast aluminum.

Does anyone have a picture comparing internals of the JDM, EDM, and USDM rods/crank/pistons?

[sideways danny]

I've always been under the impression that the crankshaft and connecting rods are forged steel. The pistons are cast aluminum.

Does anyone have a picture comparing internals of the JDM, EDM, and USDM rods/crank/pistons?

All 16 valve CA's used the same crank (yes even the CA16) Which I believe is forged. All DET's use the same cast pistons and all DETs use the same rods.

[wa-chiss]

Wow. For that price. My vote is to buy it.

Check it out. The oil squirters are going to be in this area. I tried finding the best pics to give you an idea of where to look for them. You cant miss them as they look like little tubes squirtin oil on the cylinder wall.

Heres the bottom of the block.

Head further down.

Look around this area and you'll find it! Look around the other side of the crank too.

Sorry but I don't see them. You say their tubes that squirt oil on the walls? If so are they bolted neer the bottom of the cylidars. If so I think I might have seen some before just not known what they are. From what I'm hearing, the price of the motor is really good. So more than likely I'll be picking it up. I just hope it's a Japanese motor. Thanks for all the Info and Pics Guys/Galls.

[float_6969]

The pictures he posted don't actually show the squirter's. I don't think you can see them very well with the crank in.

[wa-chiss]

I WILL be puting the T28 sr20 turbo on so should I get a deT ecu or is the DE fine? How much "power" does it take for the stock ecu to start acting funny. ( Power might not be the right word to use). I want around 200-250 HP. I will be installing new, lower comp pistons along with a total rebuild. Around how much have Y'all spent to get to the HP you're at? Man I can't wait 'till I get my Tax returns.

[float_6969]

I WILL be puting the T28 sr20 turbo on so should I get a deT ecu or is the DE fine? How much "power" does it take for the stock ecu to start acting funny. ( Power might not be the right word to use). I want around 200-250 HP. I will be installing new, lower comp pistons along with a total rebuild. Around how much have Y'all spent to get to the HP you're at? Man I can't wait 'till I get my Tax returns.

The DE ECU should be fine at lower boost levels on that ECU. They aren't really that much different. I would guess that you're not going to want to run much more than maybe 8-10psi with that turbo on the stock ECU, MAFS, injectors, fuel pump, FPR, and intercooler.

The problem is that turbo good for 14-18psi on the CA, but without the afore mentioned supporting mods, you can't safely run more than that.

If I were you I would reconsider changing the turbo first. Get your supporting mods out of the way and then change the turbo. You'd be surprised how much power a walbro fuel pump, NISMO FPR (necessary w/the walbro pump as it over runs the stock FPR), air filter, hard intake pipe, 3" turbo back exhaust, and front mount will yield you on the stock setup.

As for the pistons, there isn't any reason to lower the compression below the 8.5:1 compression that the motor has stock (unless this turns out to be a DE and then you will need to lower it down from the 9.5:1 to 8.5:1, but there isn't any reason to go any lower than that with your power levels.)

[wa-chiss]

The DE ECU should be fine at lower boost levels on that ECU. They aren't really that much different. I would guess that you're not going to want to run much more than maybe 8-10psi with that turbo on the stock ECU, MAFS, injectors, fuel pump, FPR, and intercooler.

The problem is that turbo good for 14-18psi on the CA, but without the afore mentioned supporting mods, you can't safely run more than that.

If I were you I would reconsider changing the turbo first. Get your supporting mods out of the way and then change the turbo. You'd be surprised how much power a walbro fuel pump, NISMO FPR (necessary w/the walbro pump as it over runs the stock FPR), air filter, hard intake pipe, 3" turbo back exhaust, and front mount will yield you on the stock setup.

As for the pistons, there isn't any reason to lower the compression below the 8.5:1 compression that the motor has stock (unless this turns out to be a DE and then you will need to lower it down from the 9.5:1 to 8.5:1, but there isn't any reason to go any lower than that with your power levels.)

Well, the motor is a DE so I figured I would go with the T28 from the get go and save money in the long run. You said the ecu's aren't that different so will the DET ecu work with the DE harness? I'm just trying to get all my ducks in a row before comencing. And thanks for a list of some other mods to do.

Modified by wa-chiss at 4:36 PM 1/1/2007
Modified by wa-chiss at 9:09 PM 1/1/2007

[progman]

The DE harness is missing the injector resistors (dropping resistors) and the o2 sensor only has one wire while the det has a three wire. They can be wired in faily easy use the fsm diagram. I think that is the only differance.

[wa-chiss]

see, now this DE motor set is sparking my interest even more. I will be going to see this motor on tuesday and will have some more questions for you guys when I get back. Thanks for all the help so far.