ca18de swap in nissan 200sx // s12 silvia

[aux]

i didnt know where else to put this, as threre seems to be no spot under the nissan forums that is reserved for s12's ...

What is the TRUE weight of the s13 silvia Q's and does the s13 silvia Q's (ca18de) weigh more than the 240sx (ka24e/de) ??

...and

does the s12 200sx with the ca18et weigh more or less than the s13 Q's, and the 240sx?

im very curious to know the actual weight difference between the two, because i am heavily considering a ca18de.

i know that the 88-89 s13 Q's came with the ca18de, and from what i have seen and read they dont neccesarily seem to be all that slow, they seem to be a high revving engine that can rev and hold, like a bigger 4age.

what im going for here, is basically an emulation of the ae86 toyota corolla gt-s. since the s12 s bigger but not by too much, then im thinking the ca18de in the s12 would be what the 4age is in an ae86. basically just a bigger version.

im really geeked out on this idea, because i want a higher revving engine that i can control my sliding and corner entry/exit more tactfully with more throttle response precision, the way i can with my 4age going uphill.

also i want the dohc platform for an intro into the ca18det world, but i would like to go in n/a to start. if im thinking correctly, the ca18de should be just cutting it in terms of displacement, but have enough hp to make up without having to go too high to get it. basically, they put 1.8's in integras, which look to be around trhe same weight as the 200sx and the 240sx for that matter.

heres what i want to do:

-find a silvia Q's ca18de swap with everything included.-hopefully the de block is compatible with the s12 transmission, and if so hopefully the GR's are the same (any info on that would b awsome)-if not the use the Q's transmission-do the intake cam swap with another exhaust cam(read about this on a pulsar thread) for a higher L/D you just yank the exhaust cam from a de head and swap it in place of your intake cam.-shave the head a few thousandths-get those purple adj cam timing sprockets from ebay for liek 125 shipped for the set of 2 for the ca18de -roll w a good timing belt-new injectors-new 10mm wires, or get an 8mm accell v8 kit-relocate battery to rear-generiic short ram or cai-Q's harness and ecu-some sort of piggyback or afc to tune with thats compatible with the stock ca18de ecu.(not the one that came with the ca18et)-wideband to see whats really going on with my tune-93 octane only-8 lb flywheel for ca18det-stage 2 clutch-240sx exhaust catback, one of those ebay ones w the angled output/muffler section-megans all the way around, or s13 front suspension swap + midrange (500$) coilovers-s/d f+r rotors, ebc or like quality pads.-some sort of compatible, direct swap lsd rear end, like im thinking the one from the non turbo z32 300zx, ive heard it has a lower gearing, like a 4/11.

a 6 speed transission would be peaches and cream tro drive, but i realize thats asking way too much right now.

im thinking this will give me the 150-ish hp and 120-ish TQ im looking for, but with the precision controllability of a high revving n/a engine, but a strong one that i can daily drive with a decent suspension package to match.

i plan on running around 1.8-2.0 deg in front camber and .8-1.0 in rear camber. the negative camber on the front really helps assistance with steer-in on turns. its quite an advantage.

the type of roads that i will be using this setup on are twisty mountain backroads with a lot of hairpins, grades, banks, long drawn out drifty corners and balls-to-the-wall str8's. i drive roads like this to and from work almost every day so im looking for an n/a engine with high volumetric efficiency, decent power, and decent aftermarket support.

i know about these problems thus far, and would like some feedback from ppl who are experienced with the rwd ca18de setup.

-unknown ca18de rwd header that will work around usdm steering setups-unknown ca18 silvia Q's setup conversion driveshaft information for swapping the package into the s12-unknown true weight comparison between s13 Q's and s12 turbo-i read thre is a 5" diffrernce between shifter location on the s12 from the s13

i would be after the sr20de, or the ka24e/de, but the sr20 is too tall and bumps the hood and the ka24 would be an engine from a different platform.i want to go with the ca18de b/c of its closeness to what was already in the car.

i hope i can find some feedback from rwd ca18de folks on my idea for the setup i want to go with. i have searched and searched and have found very little info about the Q's and ca18de rwd's in general, but they seem to be quite a decent engine. they may not have oil squirters in the block like the 4age smallports but they may not need them either, apparently the crank and rods are the same between both the de's and the det's.

anyone with any info based on actual experience with the ca18de n/a rwd setup with good insight please reply. dont worry about replying if your going to say just get the det, or get an sr20, get the v6, get an ls-1, or anything else like that, im purely intrested only in the difference in weight between he s12 and s13, how much affordable budget-power can be made with the de, how practical it is, how much power or how it behaves in the vehicle compared to the ka24, the difference being in either the s12 or s13.

thanks to all who have read thus far.

[Fleemer]

What is the TRUE weight of the s13 silvia Q's and does the s13 silvia Q's (ca18de) weigh more than the 240sx (ka24e/de) ??

the ca18de weights less then a ka24 and a ca18det. why, well1. Doens't have all that turbo crap,2. doesn't have the rod girdle. ca18de prolly weights ~50lbs less then ca18det. But thats just an estimate... it does, but not by much (just the extra turb accesories)

does the s12 200sx with the ca18et weigh more or less than the s13 Q's, and the 240sx?

check clubs12.org (or whatever it is, google it) From memory, they weigh about the same.

im very curious to know the actual weight difference between the two, because i am heavily considering a ca18de.

Don't be so obsessed about weight of the engine... getting lighter stuff costs an extreme amount of money and doesn't really offer any real benefits unless your trying to get a better 14 mile time (like 0.0x seconds). And btw, last time i checked, an sr20 weighs more then a ca18 due to the sr20 being thick casted (80lbs if i remember)... might be different for later model SRs.

i know that the 88-89 s13 Q's came with the ca18de, and from what i have seen and read they dont neccesarily seem to be all that slow, they seem to be a high revving engine that can rev and hold, like a bigger 4age.

I have a ca18de in my pulsar exa. Pulls nicely. Does better then non vtec b18s and can keep up/on par with vtec b18s (thanks to actual torque :P)

I have reved mine to about ~8300-8400. Didn't hit the limiter. I think it diff for the DETs though :/ (7600 is rev limit?)

what im going for here, is basically an emulation of the ae86 toyota corolla gt-s. since the s12 s bigger but not by too much, then im thinking the ca18de in the s12 would be what the 4age is in an ae86. basically just a bigger version.

In all honesty, would only be worth it if you could get the engine for dirt cheap... since a ca18det will run you the same and well.. its turbo. I'm not gonna bother rebuilding my ca18de in my pulsar (if i keep it). I'll just throw in a ca18det as planned... but FWD is le lame :P

im really geeked out on this idea, because i want a higher revving engine that i can control my sliding and corner entry/exit more tactfully with more throttle response precision, the way i can with my 4age going uphill.

you have a 4age in your s12? Gross :P Sriously the de is a good motor, but in the long run for the extra $ (very little) just go DET. Same motor, plus turbo. JUst have the crnak balanced and nitrided and get arp rod bolts and you can spin to 9k all day.. theoretically >_>

also i want the dohc platform for an intro into the ca18det world, but i would like to go in n/a to start. if im thinking correctly, the ca18de should be just cutting it in terms of displacement, but have enough hp to make up without having to go too high to get it. basically, they put 1.8's in integras, which look to be around trhe same weight as the 200sx and the 240sx for that matter.

heres what i want to do:

-find a silvia Q's ca18de swap with everything included.-hopefully the de block is compatible with the s12 transmission, and if so hopefully the GR's are the same (any info on that would b awsome)-if not the use the Q's transmission-do the intake cam swap with another exhaust cam(read about this on a pulsar thread) for a higher L/D you just yank the exhaust cam from a de head and swap it in place of your intake cam.-shave the head a few thousandths-get those purple adj cam timing sprockets from ebay for liek 125 shipped for the set of 2 for the ca18de -roll w a good timing belt-new injectors-new 10mm wires, or get an 8mm accell v8 kit-relocate battery to rear-generiic short ram or cai-Q's harness and ecu-some sort of piggyback or afc to tune with thats compatible with the stock ca18de ecu.(not the one that came with the ca18et)-wideband to see whats really going on with my tune-93 octane only-8 lb flywheel for ca18det-stage 2 clutch-240sx exhaust catback, one of those ebay ones w the angled output/muffler section-megans all the way around, or s13 front suspension swap + midrange (500$) coilovers-s/d f+r rotors, ebc or like quality pads.-some sort of compatible, direct swap lsd rear end, like im thinking the one from the non turbo z32 300zx, ive heard it has a lower gearing, like a 4/11.

a 6 speed transission would be peaches and cream tro drive, but i realize thats asking way too much right now.

im thinking this will give me the 150-ish hp and 120-ish TQ im looking for, but with the precision controllability of a high revving n/a engine, but a strong one that i can daily drive with a decent suspension package to match.

i plan on running around 1.8-2.0 deg in front camber and .8-1.0 in rear camber. the negative camber on the front really helps assistance with steer-in on turns. its quite an advantage.

the type of roads that i will be using this setup on are twisty mountain backroads with a lot of hairpins, grades, banks, long drawn out drifty corners and balls-to-the-wall str8's. i drive roads like this to and from work almost every day so im looking for an n/a engine with high volumetric efficiency, decent power, and decent aftermarket support.

i know about these problems thus far, and would like some feedback from ppl who are experienced with the rwd ca18de setup.

-unknown ca18de rwd header that will work around usdm steering setups-unknown ca18 silvia Q's setup conversion driveshaft information for swapping the package into the s12-unknown true weight comparison between s13 Q's and s12 turbo-i read thre is a 5" diffrernce between shifter location on the s12 from the s13

i would be after the sr20de, or the ka24e/de, but the sr20 is too tall and bumps the hood and the ka24 would be an engine from a different platform.i want to go with the ca18de b/c of its closeness to what was already in the car.

i hope i can find some feedback from rwd ca18de folks on my idea for the setup i want to go with. i have searched and searched and have found very little info about the Q's and ca18de rwd's in general, but they seem to be quite a decent engine. they may not have oil squirters in the block like the 4age smallports but they may not need them either, apparently the crank and rods are the same between both the de's and the det's.

anyone with any info based on actual experience with the ca18de n/a rwd setup with good insight please reply. dont worry about replying if your going to say just get the det, or get an sr20, get the v6, get an ls-1, or anything else like that, im purely intrested only in the difference in weight between he s12 and s13, how much affordable budget-power can be made with the de, how practical it is, how much power or how it behaves in the vehicle compared to the ka24, the difference being in either the s12 or s13.

thanks to all who have read thus far.

Looks like a solid plan, but seriously, it would be narly the same price to get a DET swap....

Do what your planning, but just get the DET.

[float_6969]

The RWD CA18DE's are identical to the RWD CA18DET's with the exception of the turbo, injectors, pistons, and ecu.

This means they DO have the crank girdle, and they are COP (Coil On Plug, no spark plug wires!)

As for going into an S12, it's been done plenty of times before. Check out clubs12.org.

I'm with fleemer, get the turbo version. The turbo that Nissan uses is small, which makes it quite responsive. If you keep the boost down below around 7psi, you don't need an intercooler, just a simple water/alk injection setup. This would give you almost instant throttle response. Or if you're really dead set on non-turbo, get the DET, pull the turbo, and run a supercharger. That WILL have instant throttle response. Good lucking finding headers for the DE though. you'll prob have to pay somebody to make you a custom set.

[aux]

"simple water/alk injection setup" <-- whats that?

the only reason i wanted the de is forcost and a quick hax, something i could modify lightly and achieve 150 hp, which should be anough to slide that thing through the s-turns, as well as behave nicely as a grip setup.

but, yes i agree w all, especially since the det has squirters. the only way i will roll with the de is if i can find a rwd longblock, ecu n harness for under 500, which most likely isnt going to happen.

now for the important question; will the ca18de/det block bolt up to the stock s12 transmission? is there a noticable difference in the gearing between the s12 ca18et transmission and the s13 used on the det?

if the trannies are basically the same, and will bolt up, then that would mean i'd only need the longblock, manifolds, ecu and harness. if i can do this, then i wouldnt have to worry about the driveshaft, i could just pop my ca18det in there and go. hopefully i could find all that for 750 or 8 max, if so the i could use the other 2-300 on an ebay turbo manifold, a disco potato, and an FMIC.

hopefully the ca18det will bolt up to the ca18et transmission, so i dont have to f*** with the driveshaft, and keep things simple.

[zombieslider]

"simple water/alk injection setup" <-- whats that?

water/alcohol injection is where you squirt a mixture of water/alcohol into the intake to cool down the temp of the air

[Fleemer]

hopefully the ca18det will bolt up to the ca18et transmission, so i dont have to f*** with the driveshaft, and keep things simple.

i know it bolts up to the et trans (from wha ti read on the s12 club)

go check out the s12club site,....

lots of info on the ca18det swap into s12s.
Modified by Fleemer at 5:25 PM 9/12/2009

[aux]

thnx fellaz

[RS12Turbo]

now for the important question; will the ca18de/det block bolt up to the stock s12 transmission?

.

Yes......the s12 transmission bolts right up. If you have the "C" transmission in your s12 , then you can use the s13 transmission or s12 C transmission with you existing driveshaft. If you have the "B" transmission then you'll need to keep using it as it's shorter than the C transmission, otherwise you'll have to get some driveshaft work done. Look on http://www.club-s12.org There are plenty of "how 2" write-ups on there.