Ca18 in US car?

Post by **Oatmealman** » Thu May 01, 2003 2:49 pm

Hey,

I was on UnstableHybrids, and the FAQ page said that you could buy most of the needed parts for one (CA) @ PepBoys for an 88 Pulsar...

So wait, I don't think I can get a CA out of a Pulsar, but I'm up for looking for one if I can.

Post by **CA18Fastback** » Thu May 01, 2003 2:49 pm

you cant get the CA18DET from a pulsar. The pulsar does have the non-turbo, front wheel drive version if you were that interested. stuff like oil filters, gaskets, etc are the same. the engine is very different. the CA18DET were only sold in Europe and Japan, never here. I wish it was, but it wasnt, lol.

~Ian

Post by **stoops417** » Thu May 01, 2003 2:49 pm

yah but wasn't the ca18det in the us 200sx turbo?

Post by **cuzan0** » Thu May 01, 2003 2:49 pm

no it is the ca18et motor wich is a single over head cam not a dual over head cam like the ca18det is thats why it has the D in it...

Darrell

Post by **udelslayer** » Thu May 01, 2003 2:49 pm

I thought the D was for Direct Ignition in Nissan Engines....

Am I wrong?

thanksjw

Post by **slw240sx** » Thu May 01, 2003 2:49 pm

yes your wrong, D is dohc

Post by **stoops417** » Thu May 01, 2003 2:49 pm

so can't you just take a ca18et and put a DOHC head on it?

Post by **themadscientist** » Thu May 01, 2003 2:49 pm

yes but it's involved.

Post by **miteymax86** » Thu May 01, 2003 2:49 pm

Die grinders, making everything possible with a flurry of heat and sparking

Post by **themadscientist** » Thu May 01, 2003 2:49 pm

no grinder required, the head gasket is almost identical for the CA18ET and CA18DET, minor differences in the passages but nothing stunningly different. You will be converting a SOHC engine to DOHC so you will run into problems likely timing belt and or piston dome related but it is by no means impossible.

Post by **nlzmo400r** » Thu May 01, 2003 2:49 pm

ur a genius, can i have ur brain??, o and ur skyline>!!

Post by **themadscientist** » Thu May 01, 2003 2:49 pm

Square brain, round hole, no go:pface Being poor and still wanting to go fast makes you clever.

Post by **nlzmo400r** » Thu May 01, 2003 2:49 pm

yea, i know, trust me , i know

Post by **stoops417** » Thu May 01, 2003 2:49 pm

would the timing belt from the CA18DET not work?

I guess my REAL question would be... is the CA18ET Block, and the CA18DET Block the same? I know there are some bore differences in the 18-16 but with using an 18 head wouldn't that solve those issues? It seems to reason that with Nissan's affinity for parts-binning... it should be a pure bolt on affair

Post by **themadscientist** » Thu May 01, 2003 2:49 pm

the CA16 has a 78mm bore so the combustion chamber is small, you could make it work but it would be restrictive. I have never climbed into a CA18ET. My S12 freinds tell me the rods are different but I don't know for sure.

Post by **McAdam** » Thu May 01, 2003 2:49 pm

TONS of parts from the pulsar motor will work!!!!

If you want to see whats involved in making the DOHC swap and the differences between the two motors internally, then take a good look at my site. I've got pics of the combustion chamber, blocks, timing belt tensioners, and a side by side comparison of the rods and pistons.

the ET rods are puny next to the DE rods and the DE pistons have a huge dome on them, while the ET ones are flat.

It is possible to do, but you had better have both motors side by side that will make it infinitaly easier then having to run back to the boneyard every time you need to grab another part off of the DE motor. Luckily the DE motors have an affinity for destroying rings because of their outrageously high compression ratio of 10:1

So, will a CA18 block take a 84.5 mm bore without problems?? please someone tell me. my block is at the machine shop awaiting instructions.

sws.mnstate.edu/majorsmc

regards, McAdam

p.s. anyone know any downsides to having "buttons" to hold a full floatin pin in instead of circlips???

Post by **themadscientist** » Thu May 01, 2003 2:49 pm

standard CA18DET forged pistons are 84mm so it should be possible.

Post by **stoops417** » Thu May 01, 2003 2:49 pm

i think its funny how many of us are here and on s12.org with the same screen names having basically the same conversation.... :poke

Post by **themadscientist** » Thu May 01, 2003 2:49 pm

do I smell a merger?

Post by **stoops417** » Thu May 01, 2003 2:49 pm

well, i think the info i have captured has led me to the decision to just start out with the DET in the first place... it will work out better in the long run

Post by **Myetball** » Thu May 01, 2003 2:49 pm

McAdam wrote:If you want to see whats involved in making the DOHC swap and the differences between the two motors internally, then take a good look at my site. I've got pics of the combustion chamber, blocks, timing belt tensioners, and a side by side comparison of the rods and pistons.

p.s. anyone know any downsides to having "buttons" to hold a full floatin pin in instead of circlips???

McAdam, where's your site? I have a CA18DE and can get my hands on a CA18ET bottom end cheap. Interested in any info that can help me decide if this is a worthwhile project.

I've never heard of any downsides to the nylon buttons. Really only needed in high rpm applications.

Post by **Myetball** » Thu May 01, 2003 2:49 pm

From the research I've done all the CA18 blocks have a stock 83mm bore. Tolerance limits for stock bore are 83-83.010mm (3.2677-3.2681 in.) Going .040 over the outer limit takes it to 84.0257mm. So, 84.5mm is almost right on .059 overbore. That's a major overbore and personally woudln't want to risk it.

Have you considered stroking the crank say .25" in conjuction with a .040 overbore. This should yield just under 2.0 liters and would actually be considered a CA20DET. You'd need stroked pistons with relocated wrist pin holes, stock pistons would extend beyond the block deck with a stoked crank.

Post by **themadscientist** » Thu May 01, 2003 2:49 pm

CA20E 88mm crank, CA18 rods and custom pistons, that's the common stroker formula. The CA20 crank is a six bolt flange though so make sure you get a five speed so you have a flywheel;)

Post by **Myetball** » Thu May 01, 2003 2:49 pm

That brings up another question I've yet to get a satisfactory answer on. Are the CA20E crank and rods anywhere near as strong as the CA18DE crank and rods?

Reason I'm asking is I'm also considering a mad scientist project to mate a CA20E block with a CA18DE head, bore and stroke it to 2.2liters with many mods. If the CA20E bottom end is not up to routine 7k revs I'll stick with the CA18 bottom end and bore/stroke it to 2.0liters.

Post by **themadscientist** » Thu May 01, 2003 2:49 pm

The CA20 crank is beef, the rods blow though, it would take costom rods and pistons. I found a Cheap CA20E and somebody just gave me a CA18DET so I will be able to try the hybrid.

Post by **slw240sx** » Thu May 01, 2003 2:49 pm

TMS, can you just give me a CA18det long block for really really cheap?

Post by **themadscientist** » Thu May 01, 2003 2:49 pm

I can't mail a block. If you want a set of DE rods to upgrade an ET short block that would be easy though.

Post by **Myetball** » Thu May 01, 2003 2:49 pm

themadscientist wrote:The CA20 crank is beef, the rods blow though, it would take costom rods and pistons. I found a Cheap CA20E and somebody just gave me a CA18DET so I will be able to try the hybrid.

Great info. I'll plan on replacing the rods. Custom pistons were already on the list since it's gonna get stroked.

Post by **McAdam** » Thu May 01, 2003 2:49 pm

there was a guy, I think it was a thread on silvia australia, who put a CA18DET head on a stock CA20E block. kept on over revving the piss out of it and it snapped a con rod, then he did it again, added some boost and snapped a crank. My site has a bunch of pics comparing CA18ET stuff to CA16DE stuff as well as a cut and paste link ( I know I am lazy) to a site comparing CA20 innerds to CA18ET innerds. CA20 and CA18ET innerds are weak as they come, I considered putting in tooth picks befre tossing the stock ET rods back in. bleh!!

Perhaps a CA20DET will be my next venture with some nice forged rods and pistons, depending on how this turns out. the junkyards here are littered with old *** 200sx's. and I have another S13 that needs a motor. DAMN the KA24E and its infernal timing chain tensioner!!!!

Oh yeah, aa 1.5mm overbore is a .060" overbore. I am going to have the block sonic checked to be on the safe side. I was interested in the teflon buttons because I cand find a 83mm piston readily available. but the CA20E pistons are all over the place and cheap to boot, but alas, they are press fit pins and the DE rods are full floating, therefore a teflon (my machinist says he can make buttons from soft aluminum, also) button would be in order. and at $40 for a set of 8, thats a good price, and I can run RMP's also. Im gonna have $1200 into my shortblock by the time all is said and done, but that'll be fully rebuilt, with ceramic/moly coated pistons, ceramic coated combustion chambers, full floaters, un shrouded valves, pocket ported head, cryo'd rods and crank. PLUS!!!! I have a VERY tirck turbo coming in the mail by next week, I'll post pics when it gets here. Its gonna be fuuuuuuuuun!!!

sorry for being longwinded!

McAdam

Post by **Myetball** » Thu May 01, 2003 2:49 pm

I like the pics on your site. Answered alot of questions I had. I actually posted on that thread where the guy was blowing his hybrid CA20DET. The fool was running 9:1 to 10.5:1 with 14+psi of boost...no wonder he was blowing the motor.

Seeing those quad valve reliefs on the ET pistons was kinda cool. Just curious about one more thing, does the CA18ET come with a crank girdle?

Sounds like you have a really sweet engine project going there.

Ca18 in US car?

Ca18 in US car?

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