CA18/CA20 questions

[S14Dorikin]

Ok, I am planning on getting a CA18DET to build and run in my car. I was looking around at building a CA20DET and got tossed back and forth through different threads from nico to zilvia to 910 bluebird and others. I just simply want to know if there is a way to get a CA20DET without buying the expensive Tomei Crank and Piston kit or having to customize a CA20 crank to fit a CA18. So, can a CA18DET head be put on a CA20 block, or can I bore the CA18DET block to raise displacement. Simply put, "How can I inexpensively raise the displacement of the CA18DET?"

Thank you for any help you may provide.

[datsunboy]

yes.....CA18DET WILL fit a CA20 block.search these forums for "pics of my mates CA20DET Datsun"and you should find a post I put up with pics.you will have to grind some clearance on the intake manifold, and the thermostat housing......you'll figure that out if/when you come to do it

[boost_boy]

Ok, I am planning on getting a CA18DET to build and run in my car. I was looking around at building a CA20DET and got tossed back and forth through different threads from nico to zilvia to 910 bluebird and others. I just simply want to know if there is a way to get a CA20DET without buying the expensive Tomei Crank and Piston kit or having to customize a CA20 crank to fit a CA18. So, can a CA18DET head be put on a CA20 block, or can I bore the CA18DET block to raise displacement. Simply put, "How can I inexpensively raise the displacement of the CA18DET?"

Thank you for any help you may provide.

My question is this, how are you asking about a CA20DET, when your knowledge of the CA18DET is minimum at the most (I could be wrong)? Not trying to be a prick or anything, but have you any clue of what the CA18DET is capable of first in it's natural trim? I would definitely do some home work before you setout on a wicked journey. And if it's torque you're after, you're wasting your money; go buy an SR or build a KA or save your money and work on upgrades to a CA18DET and get a feel of it.

Dee

[iliketocrash]

maybe he just wants to do his own thing... ?

[Swedish Mike]

If I understood this right the CA20 is low tech compared to the CA18, no oil squirters and weak pistons/rods, not good for high rpm´s.

On top of this it´s hard/expensive to find forged bolt on internals, you might want this later.

Wanted to do the same thing but the CA18 is too good.

/Mike

[M374llic4]

dsm rods and b20 pistons my friend. no oil squirters just means the oil stays where its supposed to. and with CA16 cams, you got one beastly motor.

[Swedish Mike]

dsm rods and b20 pistons my friend. no oil squirters just means the oil stays where its supposed to. and with CA16 cams, you got one beastly motor.

Ah, I thought all the good turbo engines on the market had oil squirters because it was good. I´m probably wrong here.

/Mike

[float_6969]

LOL, no oil squirters is a good thing. Now THAT I find humorous.

Please, enlighten me on the pro's of lacking oil squirters and how they outweigh the benifits of having them.

Maybe next you'll tell me that a crank girdle is pointless and just adds weight?

[boost_boy]

dsm rods and b20 pistons my friend. no oil squirters just means the oil stays where its supposed to. and with CA16 cams, you got one beastly motor.

Though you can go without the squirters, it is extremely ideal to have them. I mean to each his own, but if I were going to do a CA20DET motor, (News Flash----I am ) I wouldn't want my engine without the oil jets as well as all the frankenstein crap in my motor. Some folks are creative and I can respect that, but to something that is so special and rare in a community of rareness, why not invest the money on a stroker kit ( I sure as hell am, but that's another topic).

Dee

[Swedish Mike]

LOL, no oil squirters is a good thing. Now THAT I find humorous.

Please, enlighten me on the pro's of lacking oil squirters and how they outweigh the benifits of having them.

Maybe next you'll tell me that a crank girdle is pointless and just adds weight?

Haha, my post was bad irony!

/Mike

[boost_boy]

Though you can go without the squirters, it is extremely ideal to have them. I mean to each his own, but if I were going to do a CA20DET motor, (News Flash----I am ) I wouldn't want my engine without the oil jets as well as all the frankenstein crap in my motor. Some folks are creative and I can respect that, but to something that is so special and rare in a community of rareness, why not invest the money on a stroker kit ( I sure as hell am, but that's another topic). What is the obsession with the CA20DET thing anyways? To be different? Hell, I thought when people bought the CA18DET they were being different.

The CA20DET thing I'm going to do is a joint venture between a co-worker/friend and I and it's going into one of my S13s. Full race prepped and he will be the driver while I pilot the fully built CA powered 1989 nissan sentra. Bottom line is, pay your dues first before trying to skate uphill. Learn about the CA18 before you start talking CA20 because they won't be the same. And BTW, before anyone gets offended, this message is general and only applies to those who think that it does.

Dee

[Swedish Mike]

Though you can go without the squirters, it is extremely ideal to have them. I mean to each his own, but if I were going to do a CA20DET motor, (News Flash----I am ) I wouldn't want my engine without the oil jets as well as all the frankenstein crap in my motor. Some folks are creative and I can respect that, but to something that is so special and rare in a community of rareness, why not invest the money on a stroker kit ( I sure as hell am, but that's another topic).

Dee

If I remember right you can bore it up to 1.9 litres right? Do you have one of the rare stroker cranks or custom?

/Mike

[boost_boy]

If I remember right you can bore it up to 1.9 litres right? Do you have one of the rare stroker cranks or custom?

/Mike

The kit I'm getting comes with pistons, pins, stroker crank, and rings for just under $2k. I'll probably order next week or better yet, have my partner order since he will be piloting the car and I am providing most of the parts needed plus knowledge which is priceless in my opinion. And yes, it can bore up to 1.9 litres.

Dee

[Swedish Mike]

The kit I'm getting comes with pistons, pins, stroker crank, and rings for just under $2k. I'll probably order next week or better yet, have my partner order since he will be piloting the car and I am providing most of the parts needed plus knowledge which is priceless in my opinion.

Dee

Good idea! That´s a really nice price, used parts then?

You can use stock length rods to this kit?

/Mike

[tyrannix]

is that one for an 18 or a 20 block? (is it the tomei kit?)

edit> if its the tomei kit, it will have the 6 bolt pattern crank, the nismo CA20 crank im getting (if it mics up ok) is an 8 bolt. so if it measures up well, ill have an extra tomei 6 bolt 5kg flywheel laying around LMK if you want it (it looks new too)ill be finding out if its good within a few weeks

CJ

The kit I'm getting comes with pistons, pins, stroker crank, and rings for just under $2k. I'll probably order next week or better yet, have my partner order since he will be piloting the car and I am providing most of the parts needed plus knowledge which is priceless in my opinion.

Dee

Modified by tyrannix at 1:03 PM 5/3/2006

[boost_boy]

Good idea! That´s a really nice price, used parts then?

You can use stock length rods to this kit?

/Mike

No, this is new! This kit is to be used with stock length rods as the piston pin location has been changed as well as the crank being stroked.

Dee

[Swedish Mike]

No, this is new! This kit is to be used with stock length rods as the piston pin location has been changed as well as the crank being stroked.

Dee

Pure p0rn, can you get one more kit? Good pistons?

/Mike

[boost_boy]

is that one for an 18 or a 20 block? (is it the tomei kit?)

edit> if its the tomei kit, it will have the 6 bolt pattern crank, the nismo CA20 crank im getting (if it mics up ok) is an 8 bolt. so if it measures up well, ill have an extra tomei 6 bolt 5kg flywheel laying around LMK if you want it (it looks new too)ill be finding out if its good within a few weeks

CJ

Keep me posted! It's not a tomei piece nor anything from Japan. I can't wait to get this party started. My friend owns an 04 STi and he was in awe the way my sentra pulls away from him on the highway (we started at 120mph). So now he's in love with the CA18DET and he wants the same or nearly the same ratio, but in a RWD platform.

Dee

[tyrannix]

will do.

BTW, what is the weight on your sentra? and are you going to do a custom geared transmission or diff for the s13 like you did on the sentra?

i havnt even started to look into it yet, but i have a transmission build somewhere in the future of my car. with the works (cryo treating, shot peening gears etc) so it will hold up to what i want the 'final' version of the engine to be putting out

need to start checking out classes i can run in SCCA or whatevers around here

[Swedish Mike]

will do.

BTW, what is the weight on your sentra? and are you going to do a custom geared transmission or diff for the s13 like you did on the sentra?

i havnt even started to look into it yet, but i have a transmission build somewhere in the future of my car. with the works (cryo treating, shot peening gears etc) so it will hold up to what i want the 'final' version of the engine to be putting out

need to start checking out classes i can run in SCCA or whatevers around here

Just want to add, the best transmission option is to mount a BMW gearbox.The E36 boxes can handle over 700 hp without problems, stock...

A Nissan with a Beemer box is wonderful to drive, that feeling.

Not bolt on but easy to make an adaptor plate.

/Mike

[tyrannix]

i did a quick ebay search, just to see what came up. saw alot of automatic E36 trannies, no manual ones, (before i google it to death) was it available with a standard transmission (any country?)

CJ

edit> ok, looks like this transmission came in 328i's, but sofar i see its either automatic, or 'semi-automatic' (paddle shifter like an F1 or ferrari)and this guyhttp://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...ZWD1Vsays its a manual, but i dont see where a shifter would attach, is it manual, or that semi-automatic?

Just want to add, the best transmission option is to mount a BMW gearbox.The E36 boxes can handle over 700 hp without problems, stock...

A Nissan with a Beemer box is wonderful to drive, that feeling.

Not bolt on but easy to make an adaptor plate.

/Mike

Modified by tyrannix at 3:40 PM 5/3/2006

[Swedish Mike]

i did a quick ebay search, just to see what came up. saw alot of automatic E36 trannies, no manual ones, (before i google it to death) was it available with a standard transmission (any country?)

CJ

edit> ok, looks like this transmission came in 328i's, but sofar i see its either automatic, or 'semi-automatic' (paddle shifter like an F1 or ferrari)

Modified by tyrannix at 3:30 PM 5/3/2006

We use regular 5-speed E36 boxes, easy to find here but don´t know about USA.We got one guy driving a 800hp/1200Nm E30 using a stock E36 gearbox. Crazy....

I´ll use a Beemer rear axle as well, very strong and great LSD.

/Mike

[Swedish Mike]

Not super CA but cool movie, big hp Beemer with stock gearbox... (Big)

Click "Gothenburg by night"

http://www.insaneracing.se/index2.html

/Mike

[tyrannix]

do you know offhand what years (and/or other vehicles) that had this gearbox besides the 328i?

i located a used one for lowest price $375 + shipping for a pre-may1996 328i manual transmission is that an e36?

(just getting info on it as an option right now, and google doesnt want to give me a list of year/models and transmission that came with them)

i saw a (i thik it was) W45 transmission from a supra go on ebay a little bit ago for about that same price.. what do all those 1000whp supras use?

my driveshaft is rated for 800ft/lbs, i dont think ill ever peak over 500, and the stock s13 gearbox, and whole drivetrain for that matter, is supposed to be rated for 400 ft/lbs (reliably tho?)

i like having plenty of cushion when it comes to parts that can snap or explode especially

CJ

We use regular 5-speed E36 boxes, easy to find here but don´t know about USA.We got one guy driving a 800hp/1200Nm E30 using a stock E36 gearbox. Crazy....

I´ll use a Beemer rear axle as well, very strong and great LSD.

/Mike

[Swedish Mike]

do you know offhand what years (and/or other vehicles) that had this gearbox besides the 328i?

i located a used one for lowest price $375 + shipping for a pre-may1996 328i manual transmission is that an e36?

(just getting info on it as an option right now, and google doesnt want to give me a list of year/models and transmission that came with them)

i saw a (i thik it was) W45 transmission from a supra go on ebay a little bit ago for about that same price.. what do all those 1000whp supras use?

my driveshaft is rated for 800ft/lbs, i dont think ill ever peak over 500, and the s13 gearbox is supposed to be rated for 400 ft/lbs (reliably tho?)

i like having plenty of cushion when it comes to parts that can snap or explode especially

CJ

You can use E36 320 to M3 boxes from 91 to now. You need to build an adaptor anyway.Usually you can find these on some junkyard and they don´t know how good they are.Many drag guys use the E30 transmission as well but the E36 is newer and faster to shift.

A 6-speed M3 or M5 box is always the best but very expensive...The strongest you can get is probably the 850 and M5 box, almost exact the same as Supra MK4 and Viper.

/Mike

[Swedish Mike]

Forgot how cool this movie is, you need to see it guys!

They had massive misfire above 5000 rpm so they never measured the max power but still over 800 hp and over 1000 Nm.

/Mike

[M374llic4]

Merely a quotation from a friend

"The CA20s also did not include the under piston oil squirters of the CA18s, but in high power applications, this allows for more of the oil to stay in the sump, lubricating the bearings (as it should be)."

It doest have a crank girlde anyways : P As long as you can keep your ignition under control you will be fine with no harmonic resistance.

[tyrannix]

the ca20 was also never offered in dual cam, but that can be modified, just as a crank girdle, oil squirters, forged internals, and timing belt to accomidate the block being 20 mm higher can be added (just need to know where to find them)

if you search ca20det on this forum, you should be able to find all the answers, after that i can help,(i am building one now) if i dont know the answer Fraz will (ha has built at least 2 already, and awesome source of info/good guy in general) but i get bored at work and am on the forums most of teh time while im at work, he isnt.

but, as Dee will advocate to you, you should experience the CA as it was offered, before you start building frankenstein engines

CJ


Modified by tyrannix at 7:44 AM 5/4/2006

[datsunboy]

haha....ALL CA20's came in single cam......typo!

[tyrannix]

thanks, fixed typo

haha....ALL CA20's came in single cam......typo!