Sorry to hear it man. That always sucks when that happens. I'm glad to hear you're not giving up on the CA though.

For your HP levels, stock everything is fine. I will warn you that you will probably need to bore it out a little, which will mean new pistons, and since cheap cast pistons aren't available in the US, you'll have to get forged. I would also recommend doing a port match and polish on the head while you have it apart. I've done both of my heads (8 port before the failed oil filter killed it, and the 4 port I have now) myself without any issue. It does make a noticeable difference. The exhaust ports are especially bad. I bought this kit, http://www.summitracing.com/search/Bran ... ting-Kits/ and it was enough for both heads, and I still have a lot of it left over. Same goes for the sub-manifold, and the upper plenum. Stock cams should be fine, although some 256-ish sized cams will wake it up in the top end and you won't loose any bottom end, but certainly not needed. Stock exhaust manifold is fine for that power level, but like the cams, if you had it extrude honed along with the turbine housing, you'll get a little better spool up and better top end flow. Like I said though, you don't NEED them. You can make that power with out them, you'll just have to run more boost to do it.

float_6969 wrote:Sorry to hear it man. That always sucks when that happens. I'm glad to hear you're not giving up on the CA though.

For your HP levels, stock everything is fine. I will warn you that you will probably need to bore it out a little, which will mean new pistons, and since cheap cast pistons aren't available in the US, you'll have to get forged. I would also recommend doing a port match and polish on the head while you have it apart. I've done both of my heads (8 port before the failed oil filter killed it, and the 4 port I have now) myself without any issue. It does make a noticeable difference. The exhaust ports are especially bad. I bought this kit, http://www.summitracing.com/search/Bran ... ting-Kits/ and it was enough for both heads, and I still have a lot of it left over. Same goes for the sub-manifold, and the upper plenum. Stock cams should be fine, although some 256-ish sized cams will wake it up in the top end and you won't loose any bottom end, but certainly not needed. Stock exhaust manifold is fine for that power level, but like the cams, if you had it extrude honed along with the turbine housing, you'll get a little better spool up and better top end flow. Like I said though, you don't NEED them. You can make that power with out them, you'll just have to run more boost to do it.

thanks Foat. BIg Thanks for trying to help me before i even started posting on here. if i did end up doing all the stuff you said i could do, but was not needed, how much more would it cost? or what im shooting for in general, how much am i looking to pay?

Hey Man, I was listening to the video of your motor running and it sounds to me like you may possibly have a broken camshaft. I just don't hear the rod knock that you speak of; at least per the sound coming from the video. I hear a mess under those valve covers and could be a few other things too, but I just don't hear the issues from the bottom like you've suggested.

boost_boy wrote:Hey Man, I was listening to the video of your motor running and it sounds to me like you may possibly have a broken camshaft. I just don't hear the rod knock that you speak of; at least per the sound coming from the video. I hear a mess under those valve covers and could be a few other things too, but I just don't hear the issues from the bottom like you've suggested.

Well when I rotate the crank by hand you can hear the clunking and feel it in the tatchey. I was told that that was rod knock. Not completely sure. I'm new to motor swaps. Buy we are going to pull it out and take a look. My fronds said to check for rod knock, you pull off the oil pan and you can view the inside from there correct? He also said there should be minimal movement up and down and no movement side to side. Is this true?

In the Ratchet? And would the cams them selves be damaged from what you speak of? We took off the valve covers and didn't notice any damage to the cams themselves. But I'm not sure about everything else.

Yes, the cams would be damaged. Depending on where it broke, you might have to remove them to tell they're broken.

float_6969 wrote:Yes, the cams would be damaged. Depending on where it broke, you might have to remove them to tell they're broken.

Okay. Well I will keep you guys posted when I get the motor out

UPDATE* been a while since ive posted the status of my CA. Life started getting the way so had to take a little break. but any way, finally got the block to a machine shop, and turns out i spun some bearings. thats about it. they said everything else looked fine. So im thinking of going with the Clevite 77's that i saw a couple of people using. not gunna go with a full rebuild at this point,not aiming for massive power, id be happy with around maybe 250whp and have heard stock internals are capable of handling this so for reassembly im thinking the bearings, Full OEM gasket Set, new Oil Pump, ARP head Studs.. any other things i should consider or precautions i should take? please and thanks

Have the shop check the pistons and cylinders for roundness and clearance. If it's OK, have the shop put rings and bearings in it (they'll have to set the gap on the rings and check the clearances on the bearings) and then put new gaskets in it. I wouldn't bother with the ARP head studs for that power level (but they're cheap too).

float_6969 wrote:Have the shop check the pistons and cylinders for roundness and clearance. If it's OK, have the shop put rings and bearings in it (they'll have to set the gap on the rings and check the clearances on the bearings) and then put new gaskets in it. I wouldn't bother with the ARP head studs for that power level (but they're cheap too).

so the shop dis-assembled the whole block for me. but they only disassemble, so the next shop i take it to, i should just ask them to check those two things correct? and i shouldn't bother with ARP's , just new gaskets then re assemble correct? just double checking for clarification, would be a shame if i have to take it back out later down the line, that and this is my first time doing stuff like this, still learning. i appreciate the help.

ARP rod bolts would be nice. They're like $60 for the bolts plus whatever the machine shop wants to charge to check and resize the rods (which isn't even necessary in a lot of cases I hear). The rod bolts are our weak link so I'd go ahead and do that. Everything else is plenty strong OEM. Head studs aren't a necessity for you, but they wouldn't hurt if you have the extra cash laying around.

mdb4879 wrote:ARP rod bolts would be nice. They're like $60 for the bolts plus whatever the machine shop wants to charge to check and resize the rods (which isn't even necessary in a lot of cases I hear). The rod bolts are our weak link so I'd go ahead and do that. Everything else is plenty strong OEM. Head studs aren't a necessity for you, but they wouldn't hurt if you have the extra cash laying around.

cool. sounds good. thanks

you need new rings and a hone if the shop pulled the pistons out for you... the matching seal of the piston rings have been ruined when they did this

TheMAN wrote:you need new rings and a hone if the shop pulled the pistons out for you... the matching seal of the piston rings have been ruined when they did this

really? okay good to know. thanks, cause someone said i could reuse mine, but i have no idea so rather be safe then sorry.

Yea, don't re-use them.

So a minor update. Ordered ARP rod bolts from Erics Performance off Ebay. had a few questions. is it cool/safe to re-use the stock pistons? is their a way to clean them up? Also, if i were to buy Arp head studs with an OEM gasket, is it recommended/Required to get the Head and Blocked decked for this setup? would i be better off re-usesing the OEM head studs? just trying to make sure im on the right track when it comes to getting this motor put back together. unfortunately the engine shop near me doesn't do motor reassembly so ill have to find another. but for the most part, i was going to go to them to get the the block hot tanked, honed, checked for clearance and roundness, check and recondition the rods for the ARP hardware. Am i missing any thing else to be done. will be pulling the cams today hopefully to check them out. for that it would just be removing the cam caps in the proper order correct. I do apologize for all the questions, just trying to make sure i do everything correctly the first time and understand more about the different processes and terms for putting a motor back together.

Stock pistons being reused is dependant on the condition of the cylinders. If they're still round, and just need honed, then yes, you can re-use the stock pistons, Make sure they go back into the cylinders they came out of. The same goes for the rods (although the rods are stamped, so it's hard to mix them up). The machine shop can hot tank the pistons, and it should clean them up. The head and block will need to be checked for flatness, but unless they're out spec, the shouldn't need decked. I clean them up with a scotch brite pad BEFORE I take it to the shop. You don't want that crap all over a freshly tanked motor. I would re-use the head bolts. I think the ARP's are annoying and are overkill for all but the highest HP setups, and even then, it's never been proven that they don't hold. If I still had to stock head bolts, I would switch back. The cam caps are also marked, and you can't put them back on wrong (IIRC they're labeled E1, I1, etc and have an arrow pointing towards the front of the motor)

Engine assembly isn't hard, but it's easy to do wrong. If you've never done it before, I would suggest trying to find a shop that will take care of the assembly for you. I shouldn't cost that much more money for assembly.

float_6969 wrote:Stock pistons being reused is dependant on the condition of the cylinders. If they're still round, and just need honed, then yes, you can re-use the stock pistons, Make sure they go back into the cylinders they came out of. The same goes for the rods (although the rods are stamped, so it's hard to mix them up). The machine shop can hot tank the pistons, and it should clean them up. The head and block will need to be checked for flatness, but unless they're out spec, the shouldn't need decked. I clean them up with a scotch brite pad BEFORE I take it to the shop. You don't want that crap all over a freshly tanked motor. I would re-use the head bolts. I think the ARP's are annoying and are overkill for all but the highest HP setups, and even then, it's never been proven that they don't hold. If I still had to stock head bolts, I would switch back. The cam caps are also marked, and you can't put them back on wrong (IIRC they're labeled E1, I1, etc and have an arrow pointing towards the front of the motor)

Engine assembly isn't hard, but it's easy to do wrong. If you've never done it before, I would suggest trying to find a shop that will take care of the assembly for you. I shouldn't cost that much more money for assembly.

Nice. okay . just got done pulling the cams out. didnt notice anything out of the ordinary, but then again, dont really know what to look for.. but to me they looked fine. no cracks or big scratches. also where can i find the order for the rods as to where they should go back. mine are still connected to the pistons? and if they were ever to get disconnected from the rods, is their a way to recall which pistons go to their respective cylinders?

The rods are stamped with the rod number and the grade number on the side where the rod and cap bolt together. The pistons are NOT marked in any way, so you'll need to mark them in some way.

*Update*
Its been a while, but, I finally got the bottom end into the shop. just read The Mad Scientist words of wisdom on DoctorVrooms post and all the Detail he went into about a rebuild kinda re-sketched me out about getting this done right . but none the less, I'm excited about getting this thing done. i also second that post get stickied up. some good stuff in their.

Any way so far I've purchaced ARP rod bolts and the rods are getting reconditioned. kinda scared me when TMS advised for new rods, but they've already started on the OEM ones and i read Float and others have reused rods with good out comes, so I'm praying for the same good fortune, but if i have to, i will buy new rods, really don't want to have to yank this thing back out once its in. The shop has also ordered New Clevite Main and Rod bearings as well as new OEM STD Piston rings. i do also believe he said that the block needed to be decked or the cylinder walls were looking a little funky ill have to double check with him. i want to move on to head work hopefully next up on the list. just trying to see if I'm on the right track with this. should i reuses the stock valves and lifters? i too was looking forward to purchasing 256 Poncams in the future. any straight forward guidance on what my next steps should be would be great.

Stock valves and lifters are fine, just make sure they re-grind the valves and seats so you have a good seal. I assume this shop is doing the assembly as well? If so, they they'll put all new gaskets in it. If not, you need to make sure you get a gasket set and install all new gaskets everywhere.

Right now, the main thing you need to focus on is getting the engine up and running in stock form and get any/all bugs worked out before moving on to modifying anything.

Kell try and get a quote on the head work. And no unfortunately they dont do assembly for some reason. My buddy's shops going to the the assembling. I'm just trying to get all the machine work and stuff done first. Then buy all the gaskets and have my boy do everything else

hey nico. got an update and a question. motors almost ready to get assembled. but i noticed tho from my crank when i received it back a while ago.

So what is this little gold ring that looks chipped.. is it? from research i think its the Pilot Bushing, part #32202. but I'm not completely positive. Second, their seems to be something snapped off into my crank, in one of the extra hole/spot near where the flywheel bolts go. it is gold also. what is it? it doesn't look right and if its wrong, is it replaceable? I'm literally just waiting on my gasket set, oil pump, then the head goes to get checked out and valve seals installed and she'll be ready to be put together i think. hope this isn't a major set back or a set back at all. all help is appreciated and thanks in advance.

here are some better pics.

none of those pics work...

nevermind, I fixed them for you.

The "gold" thing in the middle is actually bronze, and it's the pilot bearing. It's what the nose of the input shaft of the transmission rides on. Your new clutch kit should have a new one in it.

The "other gold thing" is actually brass, and it's SUPPOSED to have a LITTLE pin sticking out of it. It aligns the flywheel to the crankshaft. The stock CA flyhweel has a corresponding hole in it. From the factory, the crankshaft, flywheel, and crank pulley, are all balanced as an assembly. The alignment pin is to ensure that after balancing, the flywheel is re-installed in the same orientation as it was when it was balanced. (The balancing of the reciprocating assembly is done outside of the motor on a special machine, and it has be be disassembled afterwards to install into the motor).

It's hard to tell from the picture, but it looks like the pin has been broken off. Do you have a new flywheel that you're putting on?

ok. so i need a new clutch kit now, and no i didn't plan on running a new flywheel. i had the oem one resurfaced when i bought the motor. am i going to need a new one now? I've seen the Toda and Spec one and they're pretty pricy, but i guess if i need a new one then i don't really have a choice. thanks for fixing the pics btw, I've never done it and thought i had them correctly.

also Float. based on what you said about that being an alignment pin, is it safe to say that if the flywheel was not put on with that lined up, could that be the cause of the issues i was having with the motor in the first place when i first started this post?

If you had the flywheel resurfaced, it's best to get a new clutch anyway.

flywheel not balanced properly with the crankshaft could cause bearing wear and possibly a bent crankshaft, though that's not likely.

Okay. So for my power goal of 300whp. Would the spec stage 2 be okay? and about that pin that lines up with the crank , do I need that or would I just line it up with the broken piece