Whats up everyone. I'm new to the board. i was reading on the 240sxforums and it mentioned to come here. im interested in building a ca18 hybrid. i would use a ca20 block and crank with the rest being mostly Ca18 parts. i was also thinking about putting a larger turbo on it. i have a few here at house from other vehicles such as RX7s, Supras, and 1 from a Volvo. I'm just wondering what you guys think about the Ca18 and the Ca20. i also considered putting a CA18 turbo,manifold,turbo oil pump ect on a CA20. but i am not sure if that will work. what do you guys think. thx
ToddThE PoLiShEd ImAgE
Ca hybrid
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McAdam
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Are you talking CA18ET or CA18DET? The question isn't whether or not it will work, which it will, but how long it will work. There are some guys over in australia building CA20DET's. problem is, you NEED forged rods. the CA20E rods are almost dead ringers for tooth picks. very skinny and relatively long, not a good combination for high horsepower or high revs. but, if your just going to make a CA20ET, then the rods will hold up for a while, as the SOHC head doesn't liek high revs as much as the DOHC head.
as far as the turbo, you'll need to get a new manifold for it, as the CA18DET and the CA18ET manifolds are set up for T2 series turbos.
going from SOHC to DOHC will work, I am building my own CA18DET from a CA18ET and a CA16DE right now, check the website out.
McAdam
as far as the turbo, you'll need to get a new manifold for it, as the CA18DET and the CA18ET manifolds are set up for T2 series turbos.
going from SOHC to DOHC will work, I am building my own CA18DET from a CA18ET and a CA16DE right now, check the website out.
McAdam
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PolishedImage
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hmmm who makes forged rods that you would recommend? i hadnt thought about the ET. im gonna be using it for drifting and drag so i will need the high HP and RPMs i think if i do this i will stick with the stock turbo for now till i can make a custom one. thanks for the advice i will check out your site.
2BN_S13 wrote:Yeah well i thought it was a dohc, i must have read the engine code wrong. They never seem to make it to any discussions around here, i mean noone uses it to mod. I dont mind the body style though.
Yea its kinda like "crap nissan engines people forgot"One thing about the S12 200SX's, they came with the optional VG30E. Sooo I was thinking of doing a VG30ET into it
Im sure its been done or contemplated before, but there nothing like it around here.
Difficult to do
I looked into doing the same when I decided to rebuild my motor. You will have to a couple things to the crank to make it work.
The CA18 has a 8-bolt pattern for the flywheel to bolt up. The CA20 has a 6-bolt pattern. I believe that you can get a certain year RB clutch and flywheel combo for that to work, but it may not clear into the bellhousing.
The CA18 crank snout is larger than the CA20 crank snout. So this means you can either machine a larger 'sleeve' to fit over the crank to fit into the pulley, OR you can use the CA20 pulley and redo all of the belt sizes and possibly placement of accessories.
You will definately need new rods since mentioned earlier, they are honda-like thin! And the rods will need to be custom sized for the length so that the stock pistons do not meet with the valves, OR have new pistons made with the wrist pin at a higher location.
If you are willing to do this kind of research, I'd say it is an awesome project. But if time=$$, then i'd say either invest in the tomei 2.0L kit OR find a reputable machine shop that can weld and regrind your crank to a longer stroke.
Ray
The CA18 has a 8-bolt pattern for the flywheel to bolt up. The CA20 has a 6-bolt pattern. I believe that you can get a certain year RB clutch and flywheel combo for that to work, but it may not clear into the bellhousing.
The CA18 crank snout is larger than the CA20 crank snout. So this means you can either machine a larger 'sleeve' to fit over the crank to fit into the pulley, OR you can use the CA20 pulley and redo all of the belt sizes and possibly placement of accessories.
You will definately need new rods since mentioned earlier, they are honda-like thin! And the rods will need to be custom sized for the length so that the stock pistons do not meet with the valves, OR have new pistons made with the wrist pin at a higher location.
If you are willing to do this kind of research, I'd say it is an awesome project. But if time=$$, then i'd say either invest in the tomei 2.0L kit OR find a reputable machine shop that can weld and regrind your crank to a longer stroke.
Ray
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McAdam
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One of the advantages would be more low end torque. with the 88mm stroke of the CA20E, youd have a lot more low end torque, which is something that CA's have a problem with.
THe oil gallerys will line up without any major modifications. the CA18DE(t) and the CA18ET headgaskets are identical with the exception of a few coolant galleys. I can get pictures if you dont beleive me. and the CA18ET and CA20E head gaskets are the same part number.
as far as the clutch and things go.. the CA20E and CA18ET clutches are the same as 2 seater, non turbo Z's. 225mm clutches. so, there are TONS of performance clutches out there for these motors. problem is, these motors are not performance motors. from the factory, they are garbage. low port angle, twin spark plug anti pollution garbage.
McAdam
THe oil gallerys will line up without any major modifications. the CA18DE(t) and the CA18ET headgaskets are identical with the exception of a few coolant galleys. I can get pictures if you dont beleive me. and the CA18ET and CA20E head gaskets are the same part number.
as far as the clutch and things go.. the CA20E and CA18ET clutches are the same as 2 seater, non turbo Z's. 225mm clutches. so, there are TONS of performance clutches out there for these motors. problem is, these motors are not performance motors. from the factory, they are garbage. low port angle, twin spark plug anti pollution garbage.
McAdam
Garbage is spending a ton of time AND money for for a grand daddy total of 12 cubic inches(.2 litre).Its a little engine thats not designed for torque,if thats what you want than put a V-8 in it or buy a truck. All in all you are just doing something that would be equivalent to turning up the boost by a couple of pounds.The only replacement for displacement is boost.
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McAdam
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I look at it this way, if your going for all out HP, your gonna get forged pistons and rods anyway, and they cost a bundle cause no one in the US stocks them for the CA18DET, so you may as well get a CA20E block and slap a CA18DET head on it, then get your custom pistons and rods, since they'll be the same price as they would be for the CA18DET. one other thing would be to have the crank cryo treated. it'll stand up to more power a lil better than it would stock,
And when you are going for all out horsepower, every little bit of displacement counts. whether your turbo, or NA. the more the merrier. I would not build this CA20DET for a daily driver, unless my daily driver was also my 1/4 mile star. or unless I could find some other nissan rods that are beefier than the stock CA20E rods that would fit for cheap
McAdam
p.s. I dont want a lot of torque, it would just be nice to have a little more than what the stock CA18DE(T) has to offer, especially in the lower RPM's i.e. in the no boost range.
And when you are going for all out horsepower, every little bit of displacement counts. whether your turbo, or NA. the more the merrier. I would not build this CA20DET for a daily driver, unless my daily driver was also my 1/4 mile star. or unless I could find some other nissan rods that are beefier than the stock CA20E rods that would fit for cheap
McAdam
p.s. I dont want a lot of torque, it would just be nice to have a little more than what the stock CA18DE(T) has to offer, especially in the lower RPM's i.e. in the no boost range.
well... I seriously doubt you'll see anything resembling *alot* more low end torque, especially moving a 27-2800 lb street car around.Kinda risky to hi boost the rare (in the US) ca18det, let alone the super rare parts you're proposing.If not a daily driver, what purpose ? What will this 2.0L cost vs SR ?All out horsepower ? IF u got means to swap, u can pickup vg30ET donor cars (z31 300zx turbo) complete $500. I've seen a t3/4 @18psi + 120 shot on a stock "old" motor. 500+ft-lbs will leave 4cylinders confused... and in the dust.
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McAdam
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andrave. what do you mean by domestic piston/rod combos? like, domestic car parts modified to fit a CA? I am curious. I have been looking for forged internals that won't cost me an arm and a leg........
quest.....1. i never said it would be *a lot* more low end torque, just a little more than you'd be used to on a CA, which would be nice for daily driving, but then again this wouldnt be a daily driver, unless your gonna put an entire forged bottom end into your daily driver.
2. what do you mean "high boost" and what "super rare" parts are you talking about? the CA18DET head? thats not rare. I can go to a junkyard and get a CA18DE head from a 88 to 90 pulsar SE twincam. Its the same damn head, save for some very minor and trivial differences.
3. cost. O.K. lets add up the cost. CA20E block and internals from a junkyard, I'll say $200, for arguements sake (although $100 would be high priced for this particular motor) forged rods $750 a set, forged pistons $450 (rings, pins and all) then a pulsar SE head $200, maybe.. then an intake manifold and a turbo exhaust manifold from japan, as well as a crank girdle and wiring harness probably about $750 ish, gasket kit $100, bearings $125 grand total of $2575.
With haggling, you could knock about $400 off that price. thats about the going rate for a SR motor and transmission nowadays. but this combo would be bulletproof. I am sure you could take this well beyond 500RWHP with proper tuning.
funny you should mention the VG30ET, I am actually looking into swapping a VG30ET into a 240sx. I measured the front crossmember out of a Z31 car VS. one of my 240sx's and the results look promising. minor slotting of a few bolt holes and some re-welding. nothing major. probably about $50 worth of work at a local welding shop. plus I can get a parts car for $250.
McAdam
quest.....1. i never said it would be *a lot* more low end torque, just a little more than you'd be used to on a CA, which would be nice for daily driving, but then again this wouldnt be a daily driver, unless your gonna put an entire forged bottom end into your daily driver.
2. what do you mean "high boost" and what "super rare" parts are you talking about? the CA18DET head? thats not rare. I can go to a junkyard and get a CA18DE head from a 88 to 90 pulsar SE twincam. Its the same damn head, save for some very minor and trivial differences.
3. cost. O.K. lets add up the cost. CA20E block and internals from a junkyard, I'll say $200, for arguements sake (although $100 would be high priced for this particular motor) forged rods $750 a set, forged pistons $450 (rings, pins and all) then a pulsar SE head $200, maybe.. then an intake manifold and a turbo exhaust manifold from japan, as well as a crank girdle and wiring harness probably about $750 ish, gasket kit $100, bearings $125 grand total of $2575.
With haggling, you could knock about $400 off that price. thats about the going rate for a SR motor and transmission nowadays. but this combo would be bulletproof. I am sure you could take this well beyond 500RWHP with proper tuning.
funny you should mention the VG30ET, I am actually looking into swapping a VG30ET into a 240sx. I measured the front crossmember out of a Z31 car VS. one of my 240sx's and the results look promising. minor slotting of a few bolt holes and some re-welding. nothing major. probably about $50 worth of work at a local welding shop. plus I can get a parts car for $250.
McAdam
1. >>"with the 88mm stroke of the CA20E, youd have a lot more low end torque"
2. >>"I have been looking for forged internals that won't cost me an arm and a leg"
3. $2575 still don't seem worthwhile, but its your coin. You can let us know what it *really* cost afterwards>>"crank cryo treated" ? experiment ?>>"bulletproof" ? >>"well beyond 500RWHP" ? good luck, guyYou still didn't state car purpose, but I'm thinking 500hp for dragA VG will eat it alive for a fraction of the cost
2. >>"I have been looking for forged internals that won't cost me an arm and a leg"
3. $2575 still don't seem worthwhile, but its your coin. You can let us know what it *really* cost afterwards>>"crank cryo treated" ? experiment ?>>"bulletproof" ? >>"well beyond 500RWHP" ? good luck, guyYou still didn't state car purpose, but I'm thinking 500hp for dragA VG will eat it alive for a fraction of the cost
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McAdam
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1, ok ya got me there, my bad. I didn't mean to say a lot, I just meant to say more. figure of speach.
2. "super rare" and "super expensive" are not the same thing. forged internals can be made by any custom parts manufacturer for any engine. they'll just cost you an arm and a leg.
3. $2575 doesn't seem worthwhile to me either, thats why i am not doing it. but, it would be a fun niche motor. the same reason people build 2.2L stoker SR's or 2.7 and 2.8L RBXXDETT's. people spend about $2500 sometimes more on JUST the crank, rods and pistons on those motors. $2575 would be for building a motor from scratch here, not jus tbeefig an already existing motor up.
cryogenically treated crankshaft?? its not experimental, it works and works well. it just hasn't filtered down to the home hobbyist. check this link out. "cool"stuff
I am not saying it would be the best motor ever made. all I am saying is if your gonna rebuild your CA with all forged internals, may as well go with the CA20 block and pick up a few extra "free" ponies in the form of displacement and that it CAN be done. Thats what PolishedImage was asking in the firstplace, before we got into this pissing match.
McAdam
2. "super rare" and "super expensive" are not the same thing. forged internals can be made by any custom parts manufacturer for any engine. they'll just cost you an arm and a leg.
3. $2575 doesn't seem worthwhile to me either, thats why i am not doing it. but, it would be a fun niche motor. the same reason people build 2.2L stoker SR's or 2.7 and 2.8L RBXXDETT's. people spend about $2500 sometimes more on JUST the crank, rods and pistons on those motors. $2575 would be for building a motor from scratch here, not jus tbeefig an already existing motor up.
cryogenically treated crankshaft?? its not experimental, it works and works well. it just hasn't filtered down to the home hobbyist. check this link out. "cool"stuff
I am not saying it would be the best motor ever made. all I am saying is if your gonna rebuild your CA with all forged internals, may as well go with the CA20 block and pick up a few extra "free" ponies in the form of displacement and that it CAN be done. Thats what PolishedImage was asking in the firstplace, before we got into this pissing match.
McAdam