butterflys

[zero_gripS13]

ok now ive read the stickies and everyhting and my question is not how it works or anyhitng like that but..

i found a 86 pulsar at the junk yard it had a ca16de engine..

i grabe the vacuum canister and the 2 check valves i couldnt find the solenoid either it was somewhere i didnt see or missing i dont know but im having trouble identifying the check valves.. the only numbers i can find on it are on one side where u hook up the vac hose and there not nissans normal part number and are not recognized. so maybe u guys can help as im swaping soon and would like to hook this up.

one valve is purple the other is white.heres pics.

whit valve number reads 19864-111

purple one number reads 19748-081 on the side faint numbers might read 6912

[boost_boy]

ok now ive read the stickies and everyhting and my question is not how it works or anyhitng like that but..

i found a 86 pulsar at the junk yard it had a ca16de engine..

i grabe the vacuum canister and the 2 check valves i couldnt find the solenoid either it was somewhere i didnt see or missing i dont know but im having trouble identifying the check valves.. the only numbers i can find on it are on one side where u hook up the vac hose and there not nissans normal part number and are not recognized. so maybe u guys can help as im swaping soon and would like to hook this up.

one valve is purple the other is white.heres pics.

whit valve number reads 19864-111

purple one number reads 19748-081 on the side faint numbers might read 6912

Let me give you some advice on those butterfly valves, either leave them open or dump them. The CA18DET pumps out enough torque to drive you around off boost. And those small turbochargers come onto boost so fast, you won't miss the supposed extra torque. In a naturally aspirated CA18DE, the butterfly set-up is effective. But the way most CAers are using their motors, the butterfly set-up is inefficient at best. Many can argue, but the proof and the experience speak for themselves.

Dee

[zero_gripS13]

i was honestly thinking that having it work off boost/vac reference might work well cause itll provide velocity off boost then open soon as boost hits.. ill play with em on the dyno and just adapt some way of making em work best for my application i guess i was just trying to hook everyhting up stock.

[meminto]

D_Stirls performed some testing not too long ago to prove either way the butterfly effect.

http://www.nissansilvia.com/fo...flies

You can see that there is significant improvement in the lower end from having them working correctly.

When my head was in the development stage on the flowbench, the baseline for the stock ca18det jdm head was measured 220cfm at peak valve lift, it dropped slightly with the manifolds (216.3-5, something like that, I still don't have the information in front of me) this includes the butterfly valves..

The only thing I do not have is the meuserment of the point where there is a noticable restriction caused by the open butterflies..

Possibly something to consider
Modified by meminto at 3:38 PM 2/18/2009

[superJoy]

I've got a stockish CA18, SR turbo, stock boost, ARC smic, blah blah blah.

And after installing the butterflies correctly, there was a noticeable difference in power/smoothness in the low end. Enough to make it worth it IMO. These engines are sort of a joke down low and need all the help they can get.

The problem with the CA18 community is that they all seem to think in terms of what they can "get away with". You can "get away" with KA-E maf. (incorrect VQ map) You can "get away" with not installing the butterflies in OEM form. (less low end) You can "get away" with no new water pump / timing belt / idler / tensioner / etc. on a 20 y.o. beat to heck Japanese engine. (hello, I'm preventative maintenance. Have we met?) You can "get away" with SSAC manifolds. (not really, mine crapped a weld and killed a perfectly good turbo)

Or you can do things right. The more OEM, the better.

Unless you just have some kinda crazy modded CA18 monster, just keep it simple, keep it OEM, and you might be surprised how well the thing works.

That's my little rant.

Oh on the subject of low end, one contributing factor is that USDM S13s have the wrong final drive ratio for CA18. That's why they're so sluggish. Nissan intended 4.363 w/ the RWD CA18, not 4.11 240SX. So the perception of the CA18 having no low end is mainly because US guys have the complete WRONG final drive (myself included). Any engine can show some grunt, as long as it's geared right....

[zero_gripS13]

well if u read my build thread ud know im not just throwing in an old run down motor.. ill figure something out one way or another ill find out whats best for my situation i dont think it makes a difference which valve i put where cause they both are check valves and once i verify with some more testing they both seem to flow the same. but thanks for all opinions.

[meminto]

Sorry I proabably should have answered your question, but you have answered it yourself in your last post..

I can dig up my old butterfly check valves/solenoids and give you some pictures in a few days if you get stuck, and perhaps if you provide me with your test process I can perform the same on them here and give you the results?

That way you can at least have a comparison between the two

[float_6969]

I have the 4.363:1 diff and it REALLY wakes this motor up. Once you've drivin a CA with one, compared to one without, you understand why Nissan used a different ratio.

[Reno]

I have the 4.363:1 diff and it REALLY wakes this motor up. Once you've drivin a CA with one, compared to one without, you understand why Nissan used a different ratio.

what is the 4.363:1 and where did u get it?

[zero_gripS13]

4.363 final is on my too do list.

u get em either form r32 rear diff or form ca powered cars in japan..

..a simple test that might work is using a baloon on the end of the valve and pumping a set amound of pressure through the valve for a set amount of time. whichever baloon is bigger flows more. so i will be trying that.

but i also plan on doing a dyno with them open close and see the results for myself. but this is in the summer when my friends hold a dyno day but ill experiemnt when iget the engine together and in.

[HighwayStar22]

I lucked out and got mine when i purchased my S13 SR20 blacktop swap. I love the ratio and it made the SR out of control. I can't wait to try it on the CA. I can't find halfsafts for the VLSD since they are Japan only. I may just have to take the ring and pinon and swap them if I cannot find a new set of half shafts.

Seriously though. They are awesome.

[float_6969]

I ended up switching the ring and pinion over, but I have a Helical, so I had it all apart anyway.

[MeanGreenS13]

I've got a stockish CA18, SR turbo, stock boost, ARC smic, blah blah blah.

And after installing the butterflies correctly, there was a noticeable difference in power/smoothness in the low end. Enough to make it worth it IMO. These engines are sort of a joke down low and need all the help they can get.

The problem with the CA18 community is that they all seem to think in terms of what they can "get away with". You can "get away" with KA-E maf. (incorrect VQ map) You can "get away" with not installing the butterflies in OEM form. (less low end) You can "get away" with no new water pump / timing belt / idler / tensioner / etc. on a 20 y.o. beat to heck Japanese engine. (hello, I'm preventative maintenance. Have we met?) You can "get away" with SSAC manifolds. (not really, mine crapped a weld and killed a perfectly good turbo)

Or you can do things right. The more OEM, the better.

Unless you just have some kinda crazy modded CA18 monster, just keep it simple, keep it OEM, and you might be surprised how well the thing works.

That's my little rant.

Oh on the subject of low end, one contributing factor is that USDM S13s have the wrong final drive ratio for CA18. That's why they're so sluggish. Nissan intended 4.363 w/ the RWD CA18, not 4.11 240SX. So the perception of the CA18 having no low end is mainly because US guys have the complete WRONG final drive (myself included). Any engine can show some grunt, as long as it's geared right....

i personally have the 4.36 gears out of an R32 Skyline and it did make a world of difference. the 4.08 gears were good on the smaller turbo, but on a larger turbo, you need a little more i feel.

[zero_gripS13]

i want one lol.