Bushed Mission Accomplished

[telcoman]

Bull S#it

Wrong place, wrong time, wrong again

New York Times

August 27, 2008Taliban Gain New Foothold in Afghan City By CARLOTTA GALLKANDAHAR, Afghanistan — The Taliban b0mber calmly parked a white fuel tanker near the prison gates of this city one evening in June, then jumped down from the cab and let out a laugh. Prison guards fired on the b0mber as he ran off, but they missed, instead killing the son of a local shopkeeper, Muhammad Daoud, who watched the scene unfold from across the street.

Seconds later, the Taliban fired a rocket-propelled grenade into the tanker, setting off an explosion that killed the prison guards, destroyed nearby buildings, and opened a breach in the prison walls as wide as a highway. Nearly 900 prisoners escaped, 350 of them members of the Taliban, in one of the worst security lapses in Afghanistan in the six years since the United States intervention here.

The prison break, on June 13, was a spectacular propaganda coup for the Taliban not only in freeing their comrades and flaunting their strength, but also in exposing the catastrophic weakness of the Afghan government, its army and the police, as well as the international forces trying to secure Kandahar.

In the weeks since the prison break, security has further deteriorated in this southern Afghan city, once the de facto capital of the Taliban, that has become a renewed front line in the battle against the radical Islamist movement. The failure of the American-backed Afghan government to protect Kandahar has rippled across the rest of the country and complicated the task of NATO forces, which have suffered more deaths here this year than at any time since the 2001 invasion.

“We don’t have a system here, the government does not have a solution,” said Abdul Aleem, who fought the Taliban and helped to put some of its members in the prison. They are on the loose again, and he now faces death threats and sits in his garden with a Kalashnikov rifle on the chair beside him.

He said that without the presence of international forces in the city, the situation would be even worse. “If we did not have foreigners here, I don’t think the Afghan National Army or police would come out of their bases,” he said.

A rising chorus of complaints equally scathing about the failings of the government can be heard around the country. The collapsing confidence in the government of President Hamid Karzai is so serious that if the Taliban had wanted to, they could have seized control of the city of Kandahar on the night of the prison break, one Western diplomat in Kabul said.

The only reason they did not was they did not expect the government and the NATO reaction to be so weak, he said.

In fact, interviews with local officials and other people here who witnessed the bold prison break and its aftermath show that the level of government organization and security was woefully inadequate around what was clearly a high-priority target for the Taliban.

There were only 10 guards at the prison that night and about 1,400 inmates, said Col. Abdullah Bawar, the new head of the prison.

Five of the guards were killed in the attack; three of them — Colonel Bawar’s son, his nephew and the son of another warden — died at the front gate when the tanker exploded. Four others were wounded, one losing a hand and suffering 17 bullet wounds, Colonel Bawar said.

Reinforcements arrived only after the prisoners had escaped. Police officers at a checkpoint a few hundred yards west of the prison panicked and started to flee, said Mr. Aleem, a former mujahedeen commander, who came out of his house that night to see what was going on.

“I told them, ‘Don’t run, you will be safe,’ ” he said. The Taliban, as he predicted, then made their escape south through a warren of streets opposite the prison, and did not bother to pick a fight with the police.

The city police chief and his forces, meanwhile, stood at a traffic circle to the east of the prison, guarding the approaches to the town, but never advanced on the prison until the Taliban, who numbered about 40, were long gone.

“All the officials were watching with bulging eyes,” Mr. Aleem said. “If just 20 or 30 police had come round from the side they could have stopped them.”

Now he lives in constant danger. “It’s a very tough situation for people like me who helped the government,” he said. “I receive calls and they ask: ‘Are you still alive?’ ” The government also warned him the Taliban insurgents were plotting his assassination, and yet he maintained that they are not powerful. “I don’t think so; it is the government that is weak,” Mr. Aleem said.

He dismissed the frequent plea of the Afghan Army and the police, that they do not have enough resources to fight the Taliban, and said the real problem was a lack of leadership. The provincial governor, Asadullah Khaled, was visiting the United States at the time of the prison raid, leaving the city without strong leadership that night, Mr. Aleem said.

“The government has the facilities, weapons and equipment, but we don’t have the shepherds,” he said. On Saturday a former army general, Rahmatullah Raufi, was appointed as the new governor of Kandahar in a long-planned change. The former prison chief has also been arrested and accused of collusion in the prison break.

Abdul Qadir Noorzai, the head of the Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission in Kandahar, said the Taliban raid represented a great loss of face for the government. “People already did not believe in the government, so it doubled their disbelief in the government.”

In the immediate aftermath of the prison break, terrified local residents closed their shops and the town was silent for days as people braced themselves for more violence, including a possible attack on the city.

Within days families were fleeing, as Taliban appeared in villages in the Argandab district to the north of the city of Kandahar, forcing the government finally to send in a large force from the army and the police to quell the threat. That response relieved the panic somewhat, but the city has remained tense as escaped criminals and Taliban militants precipitated a sharp rise in crime in the city.

“We don’t know exactly if the Taliban is powerful, we have heard that,” said Gul Muhammad, 35, a shopkeeper who witnessed the assault on the prison and was even thrown off his feet by the blast. “But when we see this kind of attack, it seems they are very powerful.”

Haji Muhammad Musa Hotak, a member of Parliament from Wardak Province, near the capital, Kabul, warned that the gap between the people and the government had grown dire.

So wide is it, in fact, the situation reminds him of the end of the Communist era, when support for the government of the Soviet-backed president, Najibullah, began collapsing under the onslaught of the mujahedeen, who had waged a 13-year resistance in the name of Islam against successive Communist rulers.

The Taliban attack has also shaken local confidence in the international forces here and exposed the difficult situation of the understaffed Canadian troops in Kandahar, who have lost 90 soldiers in the last two and a half years in the province trying to contain an increasingly virulent Taliban insurgency.

An independent report by a panel led by the former Canadian foreign minister, John Manley, recommended in January that the Canadian contingent continue in Kandahar Province only if bolstered by 1,000 more troops and the necessary helicopters and surveillance drones.

On the night of the prison break, Canadian troops based in the town as part of the NATO-led international Security Assistance Force were busy dealing with a number of roadside bombs planted, apparently in a coordinated plan to divert the attention of security forces from the attack.

Two of the bombs exploded just half an hour before the prison raid, and two, laid to hit any reinforcements sent to the prison, were found and defused, said Joe McAllister, a Canadian police superintendent who leads an eight-member team to train and mentor the Afghan police in Kandahar.

Superintendent McAllister defended the slow arrival of Canadian and Afghan police officers at the prison that night, saying that rushing in and getting injured would have caused more problems. “Police safety is civilian safety,” he said.

But he acknowledged a more glaring omission, that of the security of the prison itself. “I would suggest it wasn’t as strong as it could have been,” he said.

The Correctional Service of Canada had helped train and improve security around the prison, he said, but still there was no barrier or blast walls near the entrance, nothing to stop the b0mber from parking the fuel tanker right outside the gates.

The failings make people wonder what the foreign troops are really doing in Afghanistan, said Mr. Daoud, the shopkeeper. “The Canadians are here, but things are getting worse and worse.”

United States Special Forces, who maintain a base on the northern side of Kandahar city, occupied the football stadium for a while after the prison break to guard against a rumored Taliban plan to attack the city from the south.

Meanwhile the police, under a new chief, have begun aggressive night patrols to clamp down on the crime wave that has ensued from so many criminals being back on the streets.

“The police will have to work hard for a while,” Superintendent McAllister said.

What a disaster and a total failure this president has been for our great country

Telcoman

[Cold_Zero]

Do you honestly think that the Mission in Afghanistan is wrong? Or do you just look for anything that can be construed as negative against G W Bush and just post it up? 10 French Paras die in an ambush in Kabul... Guess it must be George Bush's fault.

Get a life.

[AZhitman]

New York Times

August 27, 2008

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan — The Taliban b0mber calmly parked a white fuel tanker near the prison gates of this city one evening in June, then jumped down from the cab and let out a laugh.

George Bush fired on the b0mber as he ran off, but he missed, instead killing the son of a local shopkeeper, Muhammad Daoud, who watched the scene unfold from across the street.

Fixed your typo there, Howie.

Your inability to post anything resembling independent thought is probably also directly attributable to George Bush.

He probably spilled that soda on the new carpet too. Might want to send a bill to the White House.

[OriginalWheelman]

I'm not reading this. I'm sure it has nothing to do with Bush. I think the NJ fumes are getting to you.

[srellim234]

I actually do fault the Bush Administration for failing to do enough in Afghanistan. Pakistan, too, for that matter. Remember the Bush comments after 9/11/2001 about governments that harbor terrorists? Then he fails to insist that either Pakistan hand over Bin Laden (which they can't, because they don't have government control of their own geography) or allow us to attempt to get him. Pakistan is harboring the terrorists. We haven't done an adequate or thorough job of handling the situation there.

But...

Unfortunately, some people choose to blame certain individuals for anything and everything, throwing complaint after complaint, blame after blame, without offering a positive, constructive solution to the problem.

Telco, whether it's McCain, Obama, or anyone else coming into the White House, we can't turn back the clock. What exactly is your solution to Afghanistan? What would you have the next COC do and in what time frame would you expect it to work?

[AZhitman]

He doesn't know.

It's far easier to sling blame and cower behind one's delusions when the time comes for explanation.

[srellim234]

I must admit, I expect George Bush to be blamed for the fall of the Roman Empire any thread now.....

[AZhitman]

Howard was there. He saw it.

It's coming, Steve. It's coming.

[OriginalWheelman]

I actually do fault the Bush Administration for failing to do enough in Afghanistan. Pakistan, too, for that matter. Remember the Bush comments after 9/11/2001 about governments that harbor terrorists? Then he fails to insist that either Pakistan hand over Bin Laden (which they can't, because they don't have government control of their own geography) or allow us to attempt to get him. Pakistan is harboring the terrorists. We haven't done an adequate or thorough job of handling the situation there.

Then what do we do if they don't? We invade? Start a war with a sovereign state? Then if we go to war, and we don't win it in 2 years then people will be screaming to pull out of an "unwinnable war."

[srellim234]

We started a war with a sovereign state, Iraq. We started a war with a sovereign state, Afghanistan. This administration has no problems starting wars. On the other hand, it does have a problem finishing them.

Pakistan admits the terrorists are up there in the mountains. If they can't get them, and won't let us attempt to get them, they need to be sanctioned as a state that harbors terrorists. Pressure needs to be brought to bear through diplomatic, trade and military alliances against them. Since their sovereign government doesn't have a presence or control, we do what we need to do up there to get the bad guys we want and get the heck out.

[AZhitman]

Where's John Rambo when you need him?

[telcoman]

I actually do fault the Bush Administration for failing to do enough in Afghanistan. Pakistan, too, for that matter. Remember the Bush comments after 9/11/2001 about governments that harbor terrorists? Then he fails to insist that either Pakistan hand over Bin Laden (which they can't, because they don't have government control of their own geography) or allow us to attempt to get him. Pakistan is harboring the terrorists. We haven't done an adequate or thorough job of handling the situation there.

But...

Unfortunately, some people choose to blame certain individuals for anything and everything, throwing complaint after complaint, blame after blame, without offering a positive, constructive solution to the problem.

Telco, whether it's McCain, Obama, or anyone else coming into the White House, we can't turn back the clock. What exactly is your solution to Afghanistan? What would you have the next COC do and in what time frame would you expect it to work?

GWB stated after 9/11 on the pile of rubble of the WTC that we were going after the people that took down those buildings.

They did not come from Iraq. He listened to too many misguided people.Obama has stated he wants people around him to present different views.That is what a good leader does. He listens to opposing views and makes the final decision. Unfortunately GWB made too many wrong decisions these past eight years.

We should have had our full forces in Afghanistan and Pakistan all along not in Iraq.

We need to get the hell out of Iraq and wipe the taliban off the face of the earth whereever they are. They are not only a threat to the United States they are a threat to world peace.

Telcoman

[rn79870]

So, is this the place to ask about Osama bin Laden and why all the king's horses and all the king's men haven't been able to find that one individual? I would have thought a war on terrorism would have concentrated on finding the #1 terrorlst.

[telcoman]

So, is this the place to ask about Osama bin Laden and why all the king's horses and all the king's men haven't been able to find that one individual? I would have thought a war on terrorism would have concentrated on finding the #1 terrorlst.

Perhaps AZ or the wheelman can tell us?

After all GWB stated "mission accomplished"

Obama just received the nomination so as Bob Dylan stated, "you don't need to be a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"

Change is coming soon

Telcoman

[srellim234]

Wrong target, telco. Al Qaeda is the group responsible for 9/11. The Taliban provided safe haven for Al Qaeda, and I agree that they need to be addressed, but at this point I'm not seeing much to indicate they have expansionist plans. The Taliban want their country back.

The warlords up on the border that are providing haven for Al Qaeda I would place in the same category as the Taliban when we originally went in to Afghanistan. They want to control their own little space of geography. Like the Taliban was removed from government power in Afghanistan, we make it clear that warlords who protect Al Qaeda will lose their piece of property. Anything beyond that is Pakistan's problem.

[AZhitman]

...and who will you blame when Obama gets misled?

When he "listens to too many misguided people."

Oh wait - He's the Messiah - He can't be fooled.

[OriginalWheelman]

We started a war with a sovereign state, Iraq. We started a war with a sovereign state, Afghanistan. This administration has no problems starting wars. On the other hand, it does have a problem finishing them.

The war is over. We won. The occupation and rebuilding of Iraq is not over. It is entirely different fighting an organization vs fighting a country. Fighting a country is easy, as was seen when we ousted Saddam's government. Fighting a group of people who look just like the people you are trying to protect, walking up to you singing your praises and then detonating a bomb in your face is much harder. Don't tell me it doesn't happen, I'll introduce you to my friend who was the lone survivor of the incident I mentioned. We are not fighting an enemy that sits in a field with an assault rifle. More like trying to pick out the kid who is going to shoot up the whole school. It is possible, but takes intelligence work and leg work as opposed to flinging bullets. To be fair, this is the only real tactic that they can use. At the moment it is a war of attrition. America's resolve vs their resources. We are rounding up those who support them, and chipping away from their power. We are winning in Iraq, we just have not won. The problem is the American people's desire for instant gratification. Why isn't it done yet? There is a simple way to win the war, but it is not a good one. Nuke the whole of Iraq. We can't do that obviously, so we have to take the longer, more politically correct way to win. You can't have everything you want as soon as you want it. Life simply does not work that way. We lost in Vietnam because the public demanded we pull out before it was over... sound familiar? The same people that were saying they didn't want another Vietnam are demanding a pullout...

Perhaps AZ or the wheelman can tell us?

After all GWB stated "mission accomplished"

Gladly. Like I said, the mission was accomplished in a purely technical sense. The "war" is over.

[srellim234]

It's a matter of semantics. This administration was totally unprepared for the aftermath of taking out the governments in question. Consideration of possible occupation and rebuilding involving your troops should be a portion of any war. The major fighting involving the Iraqi troops is done, but the war isn't over until we have finished whatever it is we were trying to accomplish there and our people are out of harm's way.

[AZhitman]

...and who will you blame when Obama gets misled?

When he "listens to too many misguided people."

Oh wait - He's the Messiah - He can't be fooled.

Waiting and watching... Where's the telco brigade?

[rn79870]

I think they are still reveling in the awesome speech former Pres Clinton and Sen Biden made last night. Makes you proud to support their cause. It's no wonder the country is standing in line to donate to the campaign of change.

In other news, McCain has announced he has found a running mate. There should be some real fun when this is announced tomorrow.

[audtatious]

I'm sure you loved Bidens "it's all Bush's fault" speech. Just like you seem to think the Executive branch of the Gov runs the whole show.

[HashiriyaS14]

...and who will you blame when Obama gets misled?

When he "listens to too many misguided people."

Oh wait - He's the Messiah - He can't be fooled.

I'm not necessarily sure that Obama would be a WHOLE lot harder to mislead than Bush would be, or anyone for that matter. It's distressingly easy to mislead human beings, even Presidents, and they can't always be faulted for being misled....Bush OR Obama.

This time however, we would be going into office with the benefit of NOT having a Vice President who founded a think tank that exists for the sole purpose of instigating regime change in Iraq.

The "Project for the New American Century" (started by Cheney, Rumsfeld, and others) sent an open letter to President Clinton way back in 1998 arguing for regime change in Iraq. This issue was, for the most part, why the organization existed. Thus, please forgive my skepticism and lack of surprise when, lo and behold, we march into Iraq and execute regime change with otherwise dubious motivations under the leadership of none other than Cheney.

This time, Obama OR McCain, we should at least be free of ties to murderous organizations like PNAC. Even if Obama or McCain are just as easily misled, there shouldn't be as many sharks out there trying to do the misleading. Cheney was and is a shark.

[AZhitman]

Don't be so sure. Look at Biden's history, and his comments on Russia.

He's already "talking tough". What happened to "negotiations" (the feel-good buzzword that the lefties are hanging their hopes and dreams on)....

[HashiriyaS14]

Don't be so sure. Look at Biden's history, and his comments on Russia.

He's already "talking tough". What happened to "negotiations" (the feel-good buzzword that the lefties are hanging their hopes and dreams on)....

I have no idea how it could conceivably be argued that Joe Biden has any sort of longstanding aspiration to engage Russia militarily the same way that Cheney and Rumsfeld clearly had a longstanding aspiration to initiate regime change in Iraq.

Hell, I don't even think that Biden wants to engage Russia militarily at all, I just think he wants to show that the US and NATO is willing to push back diplomatically on any moves Russia makes that seem to try to keep former Eastern-bloc nations from exercising their sovereignty and opting to join NATO.

[AZhitman]

Hell, I don't even think that Biden wants to engage Russia militarily at all, I just think he wants to show that the US and NATO is willing to push back diplomatically on any moves Russia makes that seem to try to keep former Eastern-bloc nations from exercising their sovereignty and opting to join NATO.

Agreed on the "long-term aspirations".

He was pretty forceful in his speech about the Russia / Georgia issue.

The problem here is, it doesn't MATTER what his intentions are. What matters is:

Russia's leaders hear him running his mouth. What they hear, they will respond to.

He's running with a candidate who espouses "negotiations". Not "strong pressure". Do they not agree?

Suppose Russia doesn't respond to our "diplomatic pressure"? What then? Is BO prepared to deal with a pissed off emasculated Russia picking on a US ally in the region to draw us into more conflict? Understood, they're not a superpower. But this is about a CANDIDATE lipping off, not an elected official with the capacity to do anything about it.

They're criticizing the current administration for getting involved in the affairs of a sovereign nation, yet here we are hearing Biden talk tough.