Bush or Kerry

[StrangeLove]

MaineExport, I'm going to go see the documentry twice in honor of you!

We are the bully, but we bully other countries because deep down inside, we have PROBLEMS! take a guess what the problem is!

[Bubba1]

Here's something else to consider about both the war in Iraq and the war on terrorism. Our can't government can't keep extending the commitments for our armed forces that are already over there. I believe the Bush administration is about to reinstate the draft. And I believe some of the rules are being revamped, like eliminating the college deferrment clause. So I'm curious how the NICOnauts in the teens, 20's, and early thirties (yep I heard it could go as high as early thirties), feel about the possibility of being drafted and potentially being sent right into the middle of that quagmire known as Iraq. Does getting drafted alter your view of Bush's decision wage a war against Iraq?

[Bubba1]

Oh, this question is aimed just at non-military personnel. Military folks have naturally already made that decision.

[ilovedrifting]

i am a teen (16) and I don't care if there is a draft. america needs as many soldiers as possible, but i am going to join anway because I love america i love my life here and i need to make certain that the generations after me can enjoy the same freedoms and safety that I have

[VimyJ]

vimy it doesn't matter when the last time iraq had used wmd's they still had them in the form of sarin gas missiles, why you won't believe they were found i will never know. you said yourself the un said that iraq had destroyed 95%, well what about the other 5%. and for the last time, al-qaeda WAS in iraq, the camps existed and were real, yet you deny this also. and stop talking about bushie propaganda, cuz you are spreading more false leftist propaganda than i have ever seen. you admit he was funding terrorists agains israel, so why isn't that enough. this is the war on terror, not the war on terrorism against america. we are fighting against terrorism against us and our allies, israel being one of those. so saddam funding anti-israeli terroists is a good enough reason for me as this makes saddam a terrorlst not counting the acts of terrorism he commited on the kurds

For crying out loud! There were no missiles tipped with sarin gas. No one except Limburger (according to you) has ever made that claim. Not bush or any of his lackies in the admin. or congress. Why? Because it's simply not true.

SH never funded anti Israel terrorists. Get real! He gave money to the families of Palestinian "martyrs". SH is a lot smarter than you and bush put together. Live in your fantacy bush world. I'll stick to the verifiable facts and the truth. Try reading some of my posts. They are jam packed with documented facts.

You aren't alone in your ignorance. That idiot Senator Saxby Chamlbers (sp?) was saying that Zarqawi is AQ. I wrote a post that makes a complete liar of that a$$hole. Ansar al Islam is not AQ. They never cooperated and were rivals for hearts and minds. They don't even share the same view of Islam.

The official reasons for war say nothing about defending Israel. WMD and AQ only. No freeing the poor Iraqis. No defending Israel. WMD andd AQ only. bush sold you a pig in a poke.

[ilovedrifting]

link proving al-qaeda in iraq before liberationhttp://frontpagemag.com/Articl...13856

wmd's in iraq linkhttp://frontpagemag.com/Articl...13835

[VimyJ]

i am a teen (16) and I don't care if there is a draft. america needs as many soldiers as possible, but i am going to join anway because I love america i love my life here and i need to make certain that the generations after me can enjoy the same freedoms and safety that I have

That's pretty ironic considering Iraq never threatened US freedoms or security.

I come from a military family and consider a military carreer an honorable occupation.

[ilovedrifting]

well im glad to hear you atleast support the troops

[VimyJ]

link proving al-qaeda in iraq before liberationhttp://frontpagemag.com/Articl...13856

wmd's in iraq linkhttp://frontpagemag.com/Articl...13835

Now that is some real crap there. Nothing from the New York Times? Al Foxeerah? The Guardian?

The first article must have been missed by the 9-11 commission, eh? You really must do some reading on Chalabi and his band of 40 liars. Wonder why the bushies aren't talking about their once hand picked future president of Iraq? It's because he was exposed as a collossal liar. Most of the bogus info contained in that peice of crap came from the Iraqi National Congress. You have no idea of the real issues in this war. Chalabi? Persona non grata in the WH these days. Mobile labs, training camps and other "intel" were supplied by Chalabi's defector liars. All turned out to be lies. Chalabi himself said, "If America wants a scape goat then let it be us. It was our mission to get the US into Iraq to get rid of SH. If America wants to blame someone, then blame us. Our mission is accomplished."

No WMD or are you calling David Kay and by extension bush a liar too?

Maybe you should forward those links to Cheney because the it doesn't seem like he has ever heard this infomation. After all, even he has never even made most of those claims. Or maybe he has heard about them and knows they're BS. What do you think?

[ilovedrifting]

i can say the same things about your links, that they're lies made up by leftist with an agenda, but im not. i can see this is going no where so ima just give up, I'm never going to convince you of anything, and you're never gonna convince me of anything either so ima quit posting now. I respect you for your opinions no matter how much i may disagree with themNo hard feelings

later

[VimyJ]

You have to get informed about both sides of an issue to understand it. You have what the bushies trotted out now use your critical facilities to verify their claims. Remember, there are very famous cases of presidents lying their a$$es off about important things.

Remeber that I initially wanted war with Iraq until Powell presented the so called "evidence." That got me thinking and checking everything the administration claims. They bushies come up way short in every department.

Go ahead and the lump the only link I provided to this thread as a bunch of political bull$****. http://www.whitehouse.gov/news....html

Plenty of BS on the official White House web site.

One more thought for you. I am 43 and you are 16. You'll be paying the compounding problems and deficits created by georgie bush, the metro-Texan, for at least 25 years longer than me. And to think it was all for nothing.

Sorry your introduction to politics had to be a dolt like bush. We live in stupid times. Shame on us all.

Vote Kerry and right the ship of state.

[s13sr20chris]

long threadonly read half of itvoting bush1)moral conviction2)honesty3)consistant4)policyin that orderi am a republican as a last resort. i would prefer a christain theocracy as i am a fundamentalist christian. i understand this will not happen untill the millenial(sp?) kingdom. i also understand some people consider me ignorant for believing the bible but i dont care. i base my entire politcal agenda(love that word) on my religous beliefs. will this country ever even be the constitutional republic is was set up to be? nope, thats about as impossible as a christain theocracy.i also support israel. the bible says they are Gods chosen people. thats enough for me. if you mess with them, you will go down like everyone else befor you(edomites, hitites, hivites, etc.).

[MaineExport]

Originally posted by VimyJ "]Maine, that stuff about freeing "millions of poor Iraqis" is pap for the masses. Hell is going to break loose over there.

If it were up to some of the lefties, we would drop the country right back into their lap... and then you would be quite correct. The reasonable thing to do is stay the course and do things RIGHT. Bush's approval ratings would probably go through the roof if we just backed out and left now. BUT, since he has a track record of doing what is right (not what is always popular), we are staying until the job is done.

[MaineExport]

MaineExport, I'm going to go see the documentry twice in honor of you!

Please do... I will sleep better at night knowing you spent money because of my nonsense.

[MaineExport]

Does getting drafted alter your view of Bush's decision wage a war against Iraq?

"For democracy, any man would give his only begotten son"

I'm not a selfish punk kid who thinks everything (including freedom) should be handed to him. If my payment for the things we all take for granted everyday is to serve my country and risk my life, then so be it. Our grandfathers would surely be proud of this generation of whiney sh!ts that think sacrifice is having to give up their valuable PlayStation time to flip burgers at White Castle. :rolleyes

The road that allows us to have this very conversation was paved in the blood, sweat, and tears of our ancestors. We owe them a tremendous debt of gratitude... perhaps even the ultimate sacrifice.

In my narrow and intolerant opinion, anyone who would vote differently because they might be called to serve, doesn't deserve the right to cast that vote. Damn tree huggin' pansies!:D

[VimyJ]

Maine, what does anything you wrote have to do with the Iraq fiasco? Iraq was never a threat to US security or freedoms.

And try to understand one simple thing: Everyone knows bush trapped us in Iraq. We can't pull out because of the power vacuum that would result. bush screwed us all.

[VimyJ]

1)moral conviction2)honesty3)consistant4)policy

1) drunk and high his entire life and had everyhing handed to him on a silver platter.

2) Lied about the Iraqi threat

3) "I will not use the military for nation building."

4) Invades non threatening states using lies as an excuse.

I could go on and on.

[nismodave]

Has anyone ever noticed that the Liberals are ALWAYS negative and upset, angry because BIG Gov is not doing enough for them?

But most Conservatives try to be positive and upbeat, respect GOD and Country, and want to govern themselves more.

Liberals (especially since 2000 election) are just mean spirited, and think because THEIR boy is not in the White House........America is DOOMED.

Newsflash..........The President does not control everything that goes on in the day to day dealings in this country.

[MaineExport]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by VimyJ "]Maine, what does anything you wrote have to do with the Iraq fiasco? Iraq was never a threat to US security or freedoms.

The thread title is Bush vs. Kerry... just because you can only focus on Iraq doesn't mean the rest of us have to. I am just responding to comments other members have made...

There are all kinds of things we could say about Iraq, but we've all seen how pointless that becomes.

Well, I could point out how you argue two opposing views of Saddam. In one of your posts he is "smarter" than we give him credit for. You tout him as some genius leader.... YET, you insist that he'd be stupid enough to leave behind piles of evidence regarding his ties to terrorists and piles of WMD's if they truly existed. But, I'd rather stay away from that because I know how fired up you get when someone points out your hypocrisy.

If you feel trapped in Iraq, use your vote... that's what it's there for. Oh yeah... your only other choice voted FOR the invasion as well. Oh, but I'm sure you have a justification for that worked up as well. Surely the blame for Kerry's vote lies in the hands of the evil right wing conspiracy that tricked him into voting. Oh... another convenient situation in which you argue two sides of the same coin. Is Bush the bumbling idiot you have convinced yourself he is... or was he smart enough to trick people like Kerry into voting for the invasion? If so, what does that make Kerry? Maybe Bush is an idiot and Kerry is just a bigger idiot..... hrmmmm.

[Nathan]

Bubba, if they would let me fight regardless of physical problems (I have a horrible back that would currently keep me out of any kind of military) then I'd gladly sign up today. Its really something that bothers me, I feel like I should be over there fighting for what I believe in instead of just talking about it on an internet forum I have friends there and I'd like to be with them. Its pretty much impossible though, so all I can do is feel guilty and argue here.

[VimyJ]

Originally posted by VimyJ "]Maine, what does anything you wrote have to do with the Iraq fiasco? Iraq was never a threat to US security or freedoms.

The thread title is Bush vs. Kerry... just because you can only focus on Iraq doesn't mean the rest of us have to. I am just responding to comments other members have made...

There are all kinds of things we could say about Iraq, but we've all seen how pointless that becomes.

Well, I could point out how you argue two opposing views of Saddam. In one of your posts he is "smarter" than we give him credit for. You tout him as some genius leader.... YET, you insist that he'd be stupid enough to leave behind piles of evidence regarding his ties to terrorists and piles of WMD's if they truly existed. But, I'd rather stay away from that because I know how fired up you get when someone points out your hypocrisy.

If you feel trapped in Iraq, use your vote... that's what it's there for. Oh yeah... your only other choice voted FOR the invasion as well. Oh, but I'm sure you have a justification for that worked up as well. Surely the blame for Kerry's vote lies in the hands of the evil right wing conspiracy that tricked him into voting. Oh... another convenient situation in which you argue two sides of the same coin. Is Bush the bumbling idiot you have convinced yourself he is... or was he smart enough to trick people like Kerry into voting for the invasion? If so, what does that make Kerry? Maybe Bush is an idiot and Kerry is just a bigger idiot..... hrmmmm.

Maine, have you forgotten that bush lied to congress? No WMD and no ties to AQ. Look up "hypocrisy".

Once again, I refer you to the "Presidential Letter".

[VimyJ]

Today Centcom asked the Pentagon to prepare for a request for 25,000 additional troops. This morning there were coordinated attacks throughout Iraq with at least three US dead. Istanbul had two bombs go off just as the NATO summit is about to get underway.

Put a shine on that turd, conservatives.

Vote Kerry. Boot bush.

[Jesda]

God. I hate this thread. I keep saying I'll stop but I never do. But I cant let half-truths stand.

Hillary Clinton said we needed to invade Iraq. Hillary Clinton said there were ties to terrorists. HR Clinton and George Bush and John Kerry based this on the same 'intelligence' data. Hillary Clinton even wants a slower handover of power!

"Once the battle is joined, however, with the outcome certain, he will have maximum incentive to use weapons of mass destruction and to give what he can't use to terrorists who can torment us with them long after he is gone. We cannot be paralyzed by this possibility, but we would be foolish to ignore it. And according to recent reports, the CIA agrees with this analysis."-----------"This is a very difficult vote. This is probably the hardest decision I have ever had to make -- any vote that may lead to war should be hard -- but I cast it with conviction. "-----------"And perhaps my decision is influenced by my eight years of experience on the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue in the White House watching my husband deal with serious challenges to our nation. I want this President, or any future President, to be in the strongest possible position to lead our country in the United Nations or in war. Secondly, I want to insure that Saddam Hussein makes no mistake about our national unity and for our support for the President's efforts to wage America's war against terrorists and weapons of mass destruction. And thirdly, I want the men and women in our Armed Forces to know that if they should be called upon to act against Iraq, our country will stand resolutely behind them."-----------http://clinton.senate.gov/spee....html

My point? Everyone said so. So please stop trying to say "Bush lied" when in fact, EVERYONE was making a case for this through the 90s. We all had the SAME intelligence data. You can bend your perceptions, Mike, but reality wont budge.

I respectfully believe that what you have been saying is misleading and intellectually dishonest. You're so busy hating Bush and fixated so strongly on your own agenda, that you cant see left from right. Zoom out for a second and go back to 1990.

If you want to say "Bush was wrong" then say so. But saying "Bush lied" is putting your on spin on reality. If Bush lied, then so did congress, the CIA, the GOP, the DNC, and the previous administration. If then, they ALL lied, then what we have is a vast federal conspiracy, and its time to adjust our tinfoil hats.

Bush isnt some kind of super-savior as right wingers sometimes romanticize him to be. He has many glaring flaws and takes many positions on issues that I find to be flat out indefensible. But hes not the superdemon you make him out to be either. I give him credit for how he's handling the war, a single issue that might be important enough to win my vote, or might not. We'll see in November.

OKAY! Now I'm done with this thread!

-Jesda

[VimyJ]

God. I hate this thread. I keep saying I'll stop but I never do. But I cant let half-truths stand.

Hillary Clinton said we needed to invade Iraq. Hillary Clinton said there were ties to terrorists. HR Clinton and George Bush and John Kerry based this on the same 'intelligence' data. Hillary Clinton even wants a slower handover of power!

"Once the battle is joined, however, with the outcome certain, he will have maximum incentive to use weapons of mass destruction and to give what he can't use to terrorists who can torment us with them long after he is gone. We cannot be paralyzed by this possibility, but we would be foolish to ignore it. And according to recent reports, the CIA agrees with this analysis."-----------"This is a very difficult vote. This is probably the hardest decision I have ever had to make -- any vote that may lead to war should be hard -- but I cast it with conviction. "-----------"And perhaps my decision is influenced by my eight years of experience on the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue in the White House watching my husband deal with serious challenges to our nation. I want this President, or any future President, to be in the strongest possible position to lead our country in the United Nations or in war. Secondly, I want to insure that Saddam Hussein makes no mistake about our national unity and for our support for the President's efforts to wage America's war against terrorists and weapons of mass destruction. And thirdly, I want the men and women in our Armed Forces to know that if they should be called upon to act against Iraq, our country will stand resolutely behind them."-----------http://clinton.senate.gov/spee....html

My point? Everyone said so. So please stop trying to say "Bush lied" when in fact, EVERYONE was making a case for this through the 90s. We all had the SAME intelligence data. You can bend your perceptions, Mike, but reality wont budge.

I respectfully believe that what you have been saying is misleading and intellectually dishonest. You're so busy hating Bush and fixated so strongly on your own agenda, that you cant see left from right. Zoom out for a second and go back to 1990.

If you want to say "Bush was wrong" then say so. But saying "Bush lied" is putting your on spin on reality. If Bush lied, then so did congress, the CIA, the GOP, the DNC, and the previous administration. If then, they ALL lied, then what we have is a vast federal conspiracy, and its time to adjust our tinfoil hats.

Bush isnt some kind of super-savior as right wingers sometimes romanticize him to be. He has many glaring flaws and takes many positions on issues that I find to be flat out indefensible. But hes not the superdemon you make him out to be either. I give him credit for how he's handling the war, a single issue that might be important enough to win my vote, or might not. We'll see in November.

OKAY! Now I'm done with this thread!

-Jesda

Everyone was told by bush there were WMD and AQ in Iraq. Blix said there were no WMD and one UN inspector described the bushie supplied intel about suspect sites and mobile labs "garbage piled upon garbage" because the info always turned up nothing. There never was a connection between SH and AQ. This was known prior to the invasion. Jesda turn your watch ahead 5 years.

I am all for attacks upon Afghanistan. Iraq was a huge mistake and a complete waste of blood, treasure and America's reputation.

Vote Kerry. Boot bush.

[StrangeLove]

Bush did lie, to everyone that you mentioned, they believed him, they had every right to believe him, his the ****ing president!

Like I said EVERYONE was for the war right after 9/11, but that was when we thought that saddam had WMD and terrorlst links to AQ in 9/11

We now know that the main reasons we went to iraq are FALSE,

That is why everyone has changed their minds about the war! Do you people not understand that bush had everyone convinced that he was correct??!?!

Vote Kerry. Boot bush.

[Nathan]

Contrary to what ya'll might think, Congressmen and women, cabinet members etc. have OTHER sources of information besides the president. They do NOT make decisions based soley upon what our president says, if they did then the checks and balances system we have would be pointless.

[f1seb]

Okay what about Bush trying to lessesn the restrictions on big business so that they can pollute the environment more? A good president does that? Thank god that this little gem didnt pass. Why would he be doing that? OH wait his buddies are all big business, so they should have the right to pollute the environment on top of all the tax breaks that they get.

[Nathan]

Which do you want, a clean environment or a healthy economy? Big businesses are KEY to a healthy economy in this country. I'm not saying they should be allowed to do anything they want, but I doubt Bush specifically supported them polluting the environment. The economy is improving, and I thank Bush and his economic policies for it. I need to look further into him lessening restrictions on big business, but I'd bet dollars to peso's it was so they could do better monetarily.

[gabossie]

There is an email news letter called BushGreenWatch that I get every day or two that's just about what he's doing environmentally. I'm glad someone brought this up, because what Bush has done with environmental regulations is horrible. The things that he has signed were all masks for weakening regulations, he has gotten rid of regulations, and simply allowed businesses to ignore others. When I have some time, I'll go get some sources. Look up The Environmental Integrity Project (EIP), they are a non partisan group that keeps an eye on what's going on.

http://www.bushgreenwatch.org/http://ww ... grity.org/

[gabossie]

Screw the economy if it's the environment at risk. I would rather go into recession again, or a depression for that matter, than loosen regulations and do irreparable damage to our environment. We need to get our priorities straight.