Building a Q45 rally car (serious). Need advice

[turael]

Hey guys I apologise in advance if this has already been covered... but I think its fairly unique thread!

This seems to be the most active Q45 forum around, so here I am, asking for advice.

Last night I picked up a stock 1993 Q45A for cheap, with intentions of having it join a group of cars on a farm for dirt racing. (pics here of the standard quality of the farm cars)

The RWD v8 should go alright in the dirt, it won't be setting any records against the AWD subarus but at least it'll be something different.

Here is what I know about the car;
- unknown chain guide status
- active suspension is dead/flat/ruined/broken/gone (low ride height + light on dash)
- aircon is dead
- good mechanical condition - doesn't blow smoke, revs alright, no weird noises, steering is good (minus the lack of suspension). brakes are great.
- tyres are average
- half the bloody dash is in Japanese and I have no idea what buttons I'm pressing
- it's a pretty awesome car!

So, assume limited budget, decent mechanical know-how (+ large assortment of tools, welder etc), and no rules or regulations. What would you do to get this ready for some dirt action?

My current plan is this:
- coolant flush, oil change, trans fluid change
- try add some fluid (mineral oil?) into the active suspension somehow to get it working. failing that, rip it all out and put some Z32 stuff in there.
- get a pod filter and cut a hole in the bonnet, and run a basic ram air system based on that.
- weld in some steel for strut braces to stiffen it up (front and rear)
- chop out the muffler(s) and bash out the catalytic converter(s)
- I've heard about shifter mods to force the transmission to shift quicker, was going to look into this.
- temperature coolant gauge
- add a thermofan or rig the clutchfan to be always on (we have overheating issues here in outback Australia)
- lighten this beast by as much as possible.

Is there anything I should add to this list? any thoughts or questions? I see a skid control thing on the dash, is there a way to disable this entirely (or what is it for)

thanks for any help its HUGELY appreciated! I'll make sure to post pics of progress and whatnot as well.

[Infinitiguy19]

You got a PM!

Find the right fluid for the Active Suspension system.
Keep the stock air filter and ducting.

You should have a TCS switch in the center console to disable the Traction Control.

[turael]

Cheers

I can't reply to your PM something about me being a new member I suppose.
Yeah willing to sell of parts of course, but not really keen on posting big items. You can email me at [email protected] if you have specific parts questions. I have some generic pics, I'll have more on the weekend after I've done some work on it.

Is it a specific fluid for the a** (Active Suspension System) or just a type of fluid I can find at any auto store?

is keeping the stock air intake REALLY the best for power? Crazy, but awesome. I couldn't find any TCS type switch but I'll look again. do they all have TCS?

[BLACKonBLACK98]

limited budget? find another project.

[turael]

What would you do if the budget was unlimited then?

The most gains I will see will probably be from lightening the car. However its all so complicated and electrical, I have no idea what I can safely remove without the car s*** itself.. will the car still drive alright (no limp modes or anything) if I take out all the active suspension gear?

[BLACKonBLACK98]

I don't build rally cars so I'm not really sure what I can offer. What I do know is the engine costs some money to maintain, and often just to get back to par. I can imagine having a manual transmission is the way to go so you may want to look into the 5 speed swap. If you remain automatic cooling definitely needs to be addressed and a first gear start TCU sounds like a good idea. Suspension wise I would recommend Z32 multilink for adjustability as well as custom spec'ed coilovers; because, from what i understand, suspension tunability from track to track is crucial. Brakes can be upgraded easily, as they are interchangable with S chassis/Z32 (and all the applicable upgrades).

[BCC93QT]

Unsure if ALL but MOST 1993-up came with a TCU for 1st gear start

Where are you located?

[turael]

Thanks for your info!

I have an auto cooler I'll be putting on - a manual swap is far out of scope here unfortunately.
coilovers are not a good idea for this - too harsh and stiff for the track (it will only be seeing one type of track: bumpy as hell dirt). Assuming I can fill and bleed the active suspension, how will that handle cornering and bumps? Am I better off removing it all and putting some stock z32 suspension in (I read this is possible with swapping the tophat and some minimal mods)?

Brakes can stay the same, I don't think they even need bleeding, they are quite good. It's a pretty slow course and I shouldn't see any fade unless I do a lot of back to back laps, which I won't as it will probably overheat the transmission and or engine.

Engine seems OK at the moment. I haven't dropped the oil yet to see it's condition, but I think it will be fine.

At the moment I'm more looking for cheap/free modifications to make this thing lighter, nimbler, and faster.
example; removing boot/trunk lid. Weighty, useless. Removing interior carpets. Removing aircon condensor/compressor.

I've been thinking about welding the diff up, as I'm not sure how good the VLSD is, any opinions?

I'm located just south of Perth, Western Australia. For the shifter I'll be using 1st and 2nd side to side I think, probably won't even see 3rd.

[BLACKonBLACK98]

was deep into a reply and lost it. cliffs: don't underestimate the cost of a proper engine. don't bother with z32 suspension, it's not right for your app/budget. brakes can be upgraded cheaply, but probably not worth worrying about until maintenance time. 93 does have first gear start.

[turael]

Noted, I will try and fix the active stuff then. Is there any info floating around for this - I found a few threads that have some good info (accumulator location etc) but no process on refilling and bleeding.

Aside from the chain guides, what should I look out for in the vh45? I'll be taking it pretty easy, I don't think it will see redline often... only a few times a minute...

By the way, the main event is at Easter, so that's how long I've got to prepare. To give you an example of what goes on, here is a video of last years Easter event (warning, obnoxious music)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LM07hnDklf0[/youtube]

Last week we had Australia day at the farm where we actually had proper time trials and races. The video for that is being created soon.

[BCC93QT]

Well I sort of picked up on the english and guessed australia. Honestly. Given the lack of Q45's in australia I would consider rehabbing this car and it MAY be worth keeping it or reselling it. Rallying an active just sounds like too much trouble as well. Most 93 Q's that have been on this site have metal backed timing chain guides. Unsure if we have seen a single 1993 without metal backed. But have not seen many australian Q's. I just don't see this car holding up without a decent budget in the off road rally world. Its doable though

[BLACKonBLACK98]

part of the reply that i lost was that i would probably suggtest ditching the active and converting to standard q45 suspension. is doesn't seem like an active suspension would be as desirable for rallly driving. you can also shed some pounds in the process i'm sure. cost effectivness is another advantage, since maintaing the active suspension costs more. yank it out.

you can spend a lot of money on underplenum hoses and harnesses once you start to dig into the vh. when i had my chain guides done i also replaced all injectors (more than half were bad), knock sensors, injector/ks harnesses (brittle), under plenum hoses (brittle), and a few other things for a total of ~$7K (half of that being labor because I didn't have the confidence or facillities to do it at the time).

[j.hardstyle]

you can spend a lot of money on underplenum hoses and harnesses once you start to dig into the vh. when i had my chain guides done i also replaced all injectors (more than half were bad), knock sensors, injector/ks harnesses (brittle), under plenum hoses (brittle), and a few other things for a total of ~$7K (half of that being labor because I didn't have the confidence or facillities to do it at the time).

Word....I saw the price on that underplenum hose kit from IOP and said forget it. I actually got my knock sensors, GENUINE NISSAN might I add, for $10 each including shipping...and they were brand new.

I got bulk hose from Napa for all the vacuum and coolant lines, that ran only $30 and I got a total of 30 feet of hose altogether.

Chain guides....RockAuto is your friend. The Beck Arnley guides are genuine Nissan guides, made in Japan. For the tension side guides, I spent $10 each for the metal piece and I believe $9 each on the thick plastic piece. The metal piece was from CLOYES out of Arkansas (again bought from RockAuto) and came in genuine Nissan bags. I bought chain guides from the dealership and everything was identical.

[turael]

So we have mixed thoughts on ditching and keeping the active hey...

can anyone tell me if its as simple as filling up the empty reservoir and running the car, to get it vaguely working? I don't feel like bleeding 9x areas throughout the car. I read the FSM section on active, and it does not excite me. I don't mind if its not got the gas working properly (the nitrogen will be long gone I assume, and not paying ~$900 to refill it), as long as its not sitting on its a** I can make it work (hopefully).

Considering I should be able to pick up some stock z32 suspension for about $100, I may go that route if I can't just fill up the suspension oil and have it work.

Should have some pics tonight if I manage to move it out the back of the house.. need to push buggy out of the way, the v8 should come in handy for that...

Are there any bits and pieces someone wants to buy from this, so I know to be careful when stripping it? Else it may receive the standard rough handling...

[turael]

Had a few minutes this afternoon to play around with it. Poured some oil in the suspension reservoir (was dry, took about 4 litres), started car and nothing happened, I assume because the lines are airlocked.

Cracked both front strut tower bleeders and nothing comes out...
I guess there's a bleeder before the front struts that needs bleeding first. I'll get to this tomorrow.

As promised here are some pics of it (its got hail damage btw):

[2brokey]

The Q won't make a really good rally car in my opinion, but things you will probably be interested in if you *really* are hell-bent on doing this, besides taking care of the motor are:

Remove all the door panels, rear seat, rear upper deck panel. Remove power from the car entirely (seriously!!!) and get out your torx tools, and remove the center console trim. Under there is one of the main airbag controller modules. Disconnect and remove this. Then read how to properly disconnect the driver's airbag module and do that as well. See if you can obtain a good racing seat and safety harness setup and install those. The ABS setup is removable too if you want (it's a stand-alone Bosch setup...) If you disconnect the sensor harness above the differential, you can permanently disable TCS and ABS. You can track down their wiring and computer modules and remove them as well, the ABS one is in the trunk near the fuel tank. Depending on how legit you are planning to get and how crazy it is going to get, in most official racing outfits, you are not supposed to have a sunroof. You can remove this stuff for weight savings as well anyway, but you will need someone to weld the metal panel to the roof. It detaches from the sunroof motor / track assembly. This car is naturally heavy and wasn't intended for racing - it's intention was performance luxury saloon. Honestly, I kind of feel saddened that more than likely this will be the end of the road for this G50, but you are the owner and it's really up to you. Best of luck!

[turael]

Mate, great post. That's exactly what I was after. I'll be working on it today (just woke up) and will update later.

What do you mean "properly" disconnect the drivers airbag - will the car have a hissy fit or is it more of a safety precaution (don't want it exploding in my face)

[BCC93QT]

Honestly I think pulling the engine and putting it into something else would be more desireable of a rally car. Throw that nissan v8 w/ a 5speed into a small Toyota truck. The length of the Q as well as the clearance will be a large issue. That oil pan is sure to get hammered. But keep posting. Definitely interesting so keep on posting!

On another note Western AU sure does have some mighty tasty shiraz!

[turael]

lol Yeah plenty of vineyards around here. We have whole towns built around the wine industry... there's actually too many vineyards now and the market is diluted - you can pick up quality cleanskins for extremely cheap if you know where to look (not sure if available overseas though).

The whole point is that this needs to be ready for Easter. After that the next event is Easter 2013 probably, so I have a more long term project lined up (RB25DET buggy).

I love the VH45 engine already. I definitely plan on keeping it, if the q chassis gets too damaged I'll pull the engine and keep it as a spare for the buggy.

Coffees just about to kick in... time to get working!

[paranoidjack]

you can spend a lot of money on underplenum hoses and harnesses once you start to dig into the vh. when i had my chain guides done i also replaced all injectors (more than half were bad), knock sensors, injector/ks harnesses (brittle), under plenum hoses (brittle), and a few other things for a total of ~$7K (half of that being labor because I didn't have the confidence or facillities to do it at the time).

Word....I saw the price on that underplenum hose kit from IOP and said forget it. I actually got my knock sensors, GENUINE NISSAN might I add, for $10 each including shipping...and they were brand new.

I got bulk hose from Napa for all the vacuum and coolant lines, that ran only $30 and I got a total of 30 feet of hose altogether.

Chain guides....RockAuto is your friend. The Beck Arnley guides are genuine Nissan guides, made in Japan. For the tension side guides, I spent $10 each for the metal piece and I believe $9 each on the thick plastic piece. The metal piece was from CLOYES out of Arkansas (again bought from RockAuto) and came in genuine Nissan bags. I bought chain guides from the dealership and everything was identical.

NICE INFO j.hardstyle...specifics, nice....Infinitiguy19, I know you'll save this info - this is some gold for some of you VH45 guys. You seem to be the guy around the forum nowadays that "saves" everything,

I also went with generic hose and cut to length for most lines. Some of the bends aren't quite right as they are formed from factory, but it the savings just does not justify all OEM...small twisty coolant lines were OEM replaced, but all my vacuum lines are generic and cut, and a few straight coolant lines.

[paranoidjack]

furthermore, if no other NICO member will demand it, let it be me...though we are all saddened by the death of one of these relatively rare cars, put some video up of its racing life (and death) when you're done with it (or while chopping it up).

Good luck, be safe, and have fun with it!

[turael]

Dude there will DEFINITELY be videos and pictures galore, and I'll make sure to post them all up. Don't think of it as a death of the car... if it wasn't for me it would probably end up in a scrapheap or parted out or something.


I'm guessing you guys don't change the sparkplugs too often... what a nightmare!
Can anyone tell me what the purpose of the crazy airbox is? it's mental, tubes everywhere and crazy boxes hanging off the main box etc.

[turael]

Finally got the sparkplugs changed, looked like they'd never been changed before, or at least a loooong time ago. Those end ones can be a pain to get to... This is where the inline engines are far superior

Did the oil change, the oil that came out was horrifying, thick brown sludge. Even smelt old. Fyi, you can get to the oil filter easily from the top if you remove your carbon canister, and the intake pipes/box. Even room then for a strap if its on too tight.

I've been trying to get my head around this suspension setup to no avail. Is there a simple guide on how to bleed it somewhere? I opened some valve thing near FL wheel. I found 2 more bleeders FR wheel well. So that makes 6 bleeders I've found so far, and one valvey thing. Also my rear suspension is CAKED in oily mud stuff, this must be where it was leaking from. I hope once it's bled it doesn't start pissing out from the rear. Coincidentally, the front suspension looks remarkably similar to S13 rear suspension. Pity the s13 stuff wouldn't be strong enough to hold up the car... I wonder if the bolts line up, I should measure that. Unfortunately the rear q45 suspension is a type I've never seen before.

Transmission - am I blind or is there no drain plug. I'll have a closer look tomorrow, but there was none on the pan??

Exhaust - I'll be disconnecting this before the cats, the 3 bolt flange, and running sidepipes from here. Does anyone have any info on the expected low end torque loss from removing all that back pressure? If my theory is correct, the high end should increase a bit by opening it up, which is perfect.

Airbags - There's some box labeled SRS airbag under the bonnet latch area, with the standard bright yellow airbag lines etc. and there seems to be two SRS airbag boxes near each light. what the, are these actual airbags? Looks like I might be removing the front bar didn't want to have to bother with that.

That just about covers my adventures today. I'll update tomorrow morning with some pics and shiznit.

[2brokey]

Remove the stuff in the car first. All safety precautions I was telling you before about it. Airbags can be sensitive and decide to blow up on you for no good reason, but especially if you get into the stuff near the lights first. Those are part of the impact sensing system, which would trigger them. Remove those later

[turael]

Cheers. On today's list is trans oil, fuel filter (always a PITA to get off), taking out the intake pipes to have a closer look, and looking further into the suspension.

Some crap I've pulled out so far... haven't hit the interior yet..
Doesn't look like much.. :|

[turael]

Had a productive day;
took out all the aircon stuff,


put in a transmission cooler,



fuel filter,
wired up AC fan to the foglight switch,
gave the suspension another crack (no luck),
kept removing misc items etc.


Also checked out the stereo.. it's pretty decent! I think I might keep it.



By the way that bottom vent in the front bar is actually for the FAS cooler. The air intake for the engine is JUST that trumpet looking thing. since I won't be running headlights, I'll be modifying that to be a bit more efficient (while retaining the stock air box/filter).



Still don't know what these funky tubes n s*** are for.

[turael]

Being a workday today I couldn't get much done. Picked up some freebie z32 struts (with some bonus stainless steel tube... always useful), and went ahead and fitted a front shock. It's a bit shorter than the q45 strut but otherwise bolted up fine (top hat was a few mm off, had to drill the holes out a little).




The rear looks to be a different story, its a longer shock this time, and the top hat looks much different bolt distance. I didn't have time to pull one out and compare it properly though.... maybe tomorrow. I'll possibly end up drilling some new holes in the strut tower, if it will fit, or changing the hats over, but I've read they dont fit in too well there. :\
If the fueltank wasn't RIGHT NEXT TO IT I'd cut the top of the strut off, modify the holes to suit, and weld it back on extended an inch. Who needs suspension geometry anyway??

Stripped the boot interior and found a stock strut brace! sweet - it's not very strong though. I'll pull that out and weld some box section on it and remount it. Aww yeeeee.

[BCC93QT]

On another note. You have the in cabin air purifier in the rear window. I am looking to add this option in the future. I know there in some presidents/JDM Q's there is a switch(multiple) in the rear center armrest.Is there also a switch for it in the front console for the driver?

[turael]

Yes - all switches are in japanese, but there is a button that turns the air purifier on and off. It's already sold pending payment though.

When I'm further along stripping the car I'll post up a for sale thread so you guys can grab all these goodies.. if they sit around here they'll just end up in the bin.

[BCC93QT]

Sourcing the parts and switches is easy for me. Am just wondering if there is a drivers switch an REAR passenger switch to operate the purifier. Pretty sure theres both. Also I think I know whos buying your switch