budget engineering twin snails onto my na

[vinnye191]

ill get right to the point, i dont have the patience to wait a year to buy another twin turbo and my na is so slow it hurts at times. so against all advice ive decided to hunt down either stock twins, a couple 16g's or possibly other candidates(saab/volvo turbos?) to sit between my headers and custom test pipes i'll have a friend make instead of legit rear mounts that would replace my mufflers.im sure a single rear mount would more than suffice but i find my idea more interesting for now. from there i think retarding the timing about 2 degrees would go a little ways to not grenading the car. i assume stock tt 370cc sticks will feed 5-7psi enough fuel and then some if i ever lose the rest of my mind and decide to try to blow it up. i like the idea of properly placing the turbos on the sides of the block but ive named my cheap beater the ratZ so proper doesnt apply here and the thought of removing headers and installing manifolds, turbos and down pipes on a fully assembled vg really ruins my day and i havent even started it yet since its 1:40am here. what i need help with is should i cut out the center cross bar in the stock front facia and run a front mount or would large knockoff side mounts handle that category? this next part im skeptical about but it doesnt hurt to check, i havent had many ebc's but i heard a couple times that some of them dont go below 10psi, any truth there? also i doubt ill bother with this but ive heard of water injection helping a couple boosted na's handle higher boost (10psi+) but i thought the most common cause of failure for boosted na's was the weaker wrist pins which should still shatter under high enough pressure. i do happen to NEED ALL the info i can get on this, tuning? nistune? what device can i use to take a crack at adjusting everything back into decent spec once all the hardware is in?? finally please no nay sayers, i know this is not usually a cheap build and its supposedly never worth it, ive just decided to do it anyway as soon as i find all the pieces as cheaply as possible and make it work anyway.
cheers

[evildky]

Your post is very hard to read. Some info that might help clear up some of your questions or confusion.
The stock pistons are the weak point not the wrist pins, and the stock hypereutectic pistons will handle 400 whp before becoming an issue (assuming you have proper tuning).
Rear mounted turbo's will have more pressure loss due to the length of piping required, the good news is it also allows for more temperature fo the intake charge to drop.
Stock sidemount intercoolers are good to 350 whp. Stock turbo's are good to north of 350 whp.
There are many choices for upgraded side mounts that can support 500 whp. There are front mounts that do not require any special cutting and bolt right in, some aren't as efficient as the stock side mounts, some are better. It helps to have the TT radiator which allows for piping to pass around the sides.
10 psi from a stock turbo is not the same amount of air as 10 psi from a larger or smaller turbo, lbs/min is the figure that matters.
stock n/a injectors are only 270 cc, got for about 250 whp. Stock TT injectors are 370 cc and good for about 350whp. If you are running turbo injectors and a turbo ecu you don't need additional tuning,regardless of turbo or lack thereof as it's a metered air system.
Nistune or additional tuning should only be necessary if you decide to run larger injectors. Larger injectors and intercooler are only necessary if you want to run more than 350 whp.
The cheapest and easiest way to mount the turbo's is with the stock TT manifolds, oil pan, oil tree, oil and cooling lines.

[DCaff300ZX]

My question would be this: since you state that "against all advise" you've decided to go a very well-known fail route, spend a ton of money for no real gain and almost certain waste- why would you come here for more similar advise, given your previous choice to ignore solid, realistic advise?
Makes even less sense that your chosen path- why would you pay any attention to what we say when you ignore others solid advise who would save you time, money and hassle? We all aren't saying what we say to be mean to you, make you conform, or be your Daddy...we do it to save you hassle and avoid wasting time and money sharing knowledge we have of what really works and what does not.

Cars are SO simple, and getting what you need and or want is even easier if you only focus on that, and not focus on other things like doing something different without experience, being cool(est), or whatever. If you know exactly what you want and need it can be had easily from a known, understood and workable platform that lasts- in your case a TT platform and not a modified NA. The reasons go WAAAAAAY beyond "works best", trust me and everyone else.
Trying to turbocharge a Nissan NA requires that the creator understand exactly how the platform works and how it can be successfully modified (and also has experience doing so) before thinking that they can improve on, or even match existing known working systems...pretty much what you face here. The NA internals are not suitable for turbocharging due to compression ratio, incorrect sized and most likely old style NA injectors, and small internal oiling differences that can be dealt with if you know what to do are just the tip of the engine internals iceberg, and require you open the motor. Other NA turbo issues are all of the turbo controls (smiscs, DP's/exh./etc.) and the NA's wiring harness, which complicates trans swaps and necessary ECU changes most notably. Plus SO many things left out here to deal with that you really need a TT front cut for all of the necessary bits and pieces...not so far in cost from a mechanics' special TT. SOOOOO much cost and hassle for 50 (mod NA) to 80 (TT pistons/ECU) HP, and that probably nukes itself in a week or less without TT pistons/ECU.
My opinion and surely 99% of others is that you should save your money for a TT and the certain upgrades (turbos, injectors/harness, ECU, smics, etc.) you will want, as I did and most others do who don't swap some other motor and complete turbo system such as an RB25/26DETT into the car, planning on that day it all comes together to then have something that you will be proud of, works really well, and lasts as long as you want...hopefully for you and your bank account and sanity's sake, you take THIS advise seriously!

[vinnye191]

look i appreciate you guys trying to save me some seemingly unnecessary trouble but im really only looking to get this car up to speed with the mostly stock twin turbo i used to have. im not trying to build a monster until i find a nice twin turbo again and id like to do some decent modding of my own since helping my buddy with his cummins build makes me want to do something to my car. i feel like even 3psi could give me the extra little bit more that i want out of this car and thats it. just asking incase i can find any tips. i like working on my car so a full weekend or more worth of doing manifolds, downpipes, turbos and then plumbing for ic's plus hunting down a bunch of used parts for a little more power really isnt a waste to me since the build is half of the fun. also twin turbo engines arent very abundant near me right now nor do i think my na is remotely good enough to be worthy of a legitimate twin turbo setup.

[nissanfreak12]

Go for it, your mind is already set on doing it so who are we to say what you do with your car and your money. The guys are right, going TT with a TT engine is better, but can be done with a NA with limits.

Max boost I have heard of "reliably" is 5psi on NA internals. Because of the high compression, you will have detonation working against you. Wrist pins are the weak point in the NA engine(another reason for lower boost.

You will still need to replace the radiator for a TT radiator. The NA is just too wide, so is the condenser if you want AC.

Despite what dcaff said, you can use a NA wiring harness but you will need a Electronic Boost Controller or manual boost controller.

Things that will have to be changed/added

Manifolds
Oil pan for draining
Intercooler piping
Intercooler
Ecu programmed
Radiator and condenser
exhaust piping(unless you find JDM downpipes, fit perfectly on NA piping)
Heavier duty clutch
EBC or MBC
Injectors Ideally E85(can handle higher boost and control detonation, something to think about)
Plumbing for oil and coolant for turbos

I know I missed a few things. When I did my swap, it cost roughly 5k with me doing all the work and with all the upgrades I could have pushed 400ish WHP, but I really never went more than 12psi. It was fun, again this was on a JDM TT engine. So if you do decide to move forward with this, use TT manifolds because you are will need to remove the oil pan gasket anyway to plumb the oil return lines. Start low on PSI like you stated at 3psi, and gradually raise it, but you should feel a good bump at 3psi.

Just do us all a favor and post on here what you did and the good/bad. But please DO NOT blame anyone for the destruction on the engine if and when it happens. I have seen it done before, seen it work , but also have seen catastrophic failure even at 5psi. All depends on elevation, fuel, tune, and overall condition of engine. Highest I saw was 11psi for maybe a run then a rod went through the oil pan. He ran 93, dyno tuned for 9psi, and he didn't beat on the engine. This was also at 5000 feet altitude, so that helped him.

[nissanfreak12]

One more thing, it will take you more than a weekend to do this and getting it running right. So expect it to take longer, always does.

You will also have a lot of people telling you it won't work, but again, its your money and car, just do not add a stupid ricey body kit, bumpers, etc. These cars are sexy the way they are.

[itsa300zx]

Tunning will be your best friend for a boosted NA. I know of 3 here in my area, 2 running flawless for over 5 years and another just tuned by SZ this summer(over 375 WHP, 740 inj, sp500 turbos, 94 octane.
I'm actually buiding a Hi comp bottom end now as a repaacement in case my TT motor blows.


Here are his engine mods copy and paste for another site:
1)
300ZX Turbocharged 10.5:1 CR Convertible
(born: August 26, 2009)
Tuned by Specialty Z on August 7th, 2011
434 rwhp, 408 rwtq @ 13 psi on 94 octane
Nistune Daughterboard and Software
(2) Innovate Motorsports LC-1 WBO2 controllers
(2) Bosch 17090 WB02 sensors (46.5 inches)
Innovate Motorsports TC4 thermocouple amplifier
(2) Type k thermocouples (EGT)
Freescale Semiconductor MPX4250AP Boost Sensor
Blitz SBC-iD Electronic Boost Controller
OEM TT Fuel Pump with NA controller
(genuine) NISMO 740 cc injectors c/w (genuine) 300 Degree
Fuel Rail
(2) JWT POP Chargers
Selin Design Dual MAF Translator (add)
Selin Design Dual Intake Elbow Kit
OEM Intercooler Pipes (Gunmetal Powdercoat)
OEM Recirculation Valves
Z1 Motorsports SideMount Intercoolers
MSP Exhaust Manifolds with Ceramic Coated OEM Heat Shields
(2) Garrett GT28RS Turbos with HKS actuators
Specialty Z SS 3” Expansion Downpipes
Specialty Z SS 3 - 2.5" Test Pipes
Stillen SS Catback Exhaust

2):
The Original ConVerTT v1.0
1993 Black on Tan TurboCharged 10.5:1 CR 300zx Convertible
(Born: <br>April 2, 2005 - 67 350 miles
Tuned by Specialty Z on August 7, 2011
344 rwhp, 355 rwtq @ 12 psi on 94 octane
Nistune Daughterboard and Software
(1) Innovate Motorsports LC-1 WBO2 controller
(1) Bosch WB02 sensor
Innovate Motorsports SSI-4 Simple Sensor Interface
Freescale Semiconductor MPX4250AP Boost Sensor
Greddy Profec B Spec II Electronic Boost Controller
OEM TT Fuel Pump with NA controller
OEM 370 cc injectors (flow-matched by WitchHunter
Performance)
(2) JWT POP Chargers
Selin Design Dual MAF Translator (average)
Selin Design Dual Intake Elbow Kit
OEM Intercooler Pipes (Gunmetal Powdercoat)
OEM Recirculation Valves
Z1 Motorsports Side Mount Intercoolers
OEM Exhaust Manifolds (ceramic coated) with Ceramic Coated
OEM
Heat Shields
(2) OEM turbos with new CHRA sections
(fake) Specialty Z 4 bolt 2.5” SS downpipes
Specialty Z 2.5” SS Test pipes with Hi-Flow Cats
Stillen SS Catback Exhaust

3) Here is the thread to the third boosted Z, about half way down, dark blue Z

http://www.twinturbo.net/nissan/300zx/f ... -2016.html

[vinnye191]

thanks and nissanfreak trust me im the first in my group to shoot down the idea of ruining a z (ironically im getting "ruined Z" decals for my blindspot window since i dipped it blue to hide my beat up paint) im confident in my ability with this build and when its eventually done ill be sure to post the results. just gotta do something in the meantime because again my NA doesnt have a nice enough body(ok panels, structure not so much) to drop a real vg into it and its going to be a while before i run into $6k-$8k to finally get another twin turbo. by the way i went for a ride in an NA with 80 miles on the engine, straight pipes and stock turbos pushing 323whp at 7.5psi. that car forced a smile out of me every time he stepped on it and i almost cried when he wouldnt take less for it. i think once i get everything together 3 or maybe 4psi should be enough to make it perfect since i die a little bit inside every time i try to get up to speed on the on ramps in my NA