BREAKING: Nissan Swaps from V6 to S/C Hybrid

[RicerX]

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/11/29/2013 ... er-hybrid/

Every automaker is intent on downsizing its engines and adding some kind of hybrid component to its vehicles, and Nissan is no different. Today in Japan, Nissan introduced its latest in-house-developed hybrid drive system, comprised of a 2.5-liter four-cylinder engine and a compact lithium-ion battery pack. But here's the kicker: it's packing a twin-screw supercharger on top.

According to engineers we spoke with, that means the same output as Nissan's tried-and-true 3.5-liter V6 – somewhere in the neighborhood of 260 horsepower and 250 pound-feet of torque – all while returning fuel economy improvements of up to 10 percent when mated to Nissan's all-new continuously variable transmission (expect more on that later).

Engineers claim that the torque curve of the new supercharged mill is nearly identical to the V6 and that power delivery will be just as seamless as the 3.5-liter. Officially, Nissan says that a model packing the new engine is due to arrive in 2013 in North America, and it's safe to assume that's going to be the next-generation Altima.

Nissan reps confirmed that the combination of superchargers and hybrids will proliferate throughout the automaker's lineup in the coming years, and that's sure to extend to Infiniti, as well. That last bit has us pontificating that the mystery mid-engine Infiniti concept coming to the Geneva Motor Show could be packing a variant of this same mill, but augmented with plug-in tech. We'll find out soon enough...

Sound off - what do you guys think?

[Kompresshun]

I guess I have mixed opinions about it really. The 3.5L has proven to be a great engine, with excellent reliability and I hate to see it go away. My main concerns would be the reliability of this combination vs the 3.5L and them having to add a hybrid system AND a supercharger to the 2.5 to get similar power with only a 10% increase in fuel mileage. 10% really is not a considerable enough fuel economy gain for me to really care. Also, this will add to maintenance costs too I would assume. Because now you'll have to worry about maintaining a supercharger, a hybrid drive system, and batteries. All for a 2-4mpg gain...

That doesn't sound like saving money to me, that sounds like smoke and mirrors

[MinisterofDOOM]

Article doesn't say what the 2.5 will be. If it's the QR, Nissan are fools. The engine is torqueless, unrefined, unreliable, and known for doing exactly NOTHING well. On top of that, it's NOT known for good fuel economy.

If it's an MR derivative, though, it might be a winner. FI variants of the MR are smooth, responsive, and far torquier than the QR (about on par with the good ol' KA24DE) and best it hands-down for fuel economy.

The car itself will fail, though. Hybrids are a compromise that not everyone is willing to make. Their benefits are not universal. Adding batteries is NOT a viable alternative to two cylinders, especially since packing a bunch of lithium in the trunk will EASILY offset any possible weight savings gained from the smaller engine and bay. Lifespan of batteries is going to kill future resale, which in turn will kill initial appeal, which in turn will kill initial value. People who WANT to buy hybrids are okay with this stuff. But people just looking for a non-gutless family car don't want to deal with that s***. So they'll go to Hyundai or Ford instead and Nissan will have a sales bomb on their hands.

But all of this is silly anyway. I can consistently get 31mpg on the highway at 75mpg with the VQ35 (in the Maxima in this case). A mere 10% improvement over that after all that convolution is beyond laughable.

It's the same story as the Sonata turbo, the Ford Ecoboost V6, and every other idealist "smaller engine with helpers" idea of recent years: We're subtracting displacement and adding complexity and complication just to end up right where we started.

The used car market in 10-15 years is going to be a farking MESS.

[sx moneypit]

Why not do as Mazda is with their new Skyactiv engine?
High compression and direct injection.
Pretty simple formula.

[Mr1der]

10 percent improvement when mated to a CVT?

f*** THAT

you know what a 10% improvement on a car that gets 30mpg is?

3. 3 miles per gallon.

I can easily make up that difference by not railing my car through all the gears but why? It's no fun driving like I'm not an ***hole.

[s0m3th1ngAZ]

I guess I have mixed opinions about it really. The 3.5L has proven to be a great engine, with excellent reliability and I hate to see it go away. My main concerns would be the reliability of this combination vs the 3.5L and them having to add a hybrid system AND a supercharger to the 2.5 to get similar power with only a 10% increase in fuel mileage. 10% really is not a considerable enough fuel economy gain for me to really care. Also, this will add to maintenance costs too I would assume. Because now you'll have to worry about maintaining a supercharger, a hybrid drive system, and batteries. All for a 2-4mpg gain...

That doesn't sound like saving money to me, that sounds like smoke and mirrors

10% gain for you is not much to write home about but on their end even 1% is huge over large volumes.

[IBCoupe]

I'm intrigued.

[Kompresshun]

10% gain for you is not much to write home about but on their end even 1% is huge over large volumes.

I don't disagree with you, BUT the problem with this is not them trying to get better overall fuel economy. I'm fine with that.

The issue is the approach they're taking to get there. Some people will buy into this "huge" improvement BS, but if they want an intelligent consumer to buy it, then they need to go back to the drawing board. The batteries will last 5 years under normal circumstances and it will roughly cost $7,000 to replace with today's money, at best you may be able to stretch it to 10 years. Then factor in supercharger maintenance(oil changes, belt, and Ect) with other maintenance. That 10% gain isn't going to pay for all of that extra maintenance.

I'm not thinking about the manufacturer here, I'm thinking about the consumers that will buy this "new" technology and think its the next amazing thing. I'm not saying I don't want Nissan to excel, I'm saying that they're going down the same road a lot of other manufacturers have been going and it's smoke and mirrors to make their vehicles seem exceedingly better, when they're only a very small percentage better. I love Nissan vehicles, but they have made nothing that is revolutionary or even just an exceptional improvement in quite some time and this case is no different.

[C-Kwik]

Adding batteries is NOT a viable alternative to two cylinders, especially since packing a bunch of lithium in the trunk will EASILY offset any possible weight savings gained from the smaller engine and bay.

What offsets the loss of 2 cylinders is the electric motor AND the supercharger. Still, hybrid batteries are not nearly as big as those in an EV. Not to mention this is Li-ion so it should pack the highest energy density available. Lastly, its less about saving wait and much more about regenerative braking. Its this aspect that nets the additional efficiency.

I wonder if Nissan uses Atkinson cycles in their hybrids. If so, I suspect we may be looking at a Miller cycle here...

Also, I wonder when we might start seeing graphene layers in batteries. The tech is supposed to boost Li-Ion capacities quite a bit and reduce charge times (both by a factor of 10). Might not be too helpful in a hybrid, but very much so in a BEV. Hell, I wanna see them in my phone soon too.

[MinisterofDOOM]

I wonder if Nissan uses Atkinson cycles in their hybrids. If so, I suspect we may be looking at a Miller cycle here...

Take away the hybrid nonsense and that excites me. A miller-powered Altima would rock. I'd rather see a little Miller 6 like Mazda did, though, than a big 4. Oh, how convenient, Nissan has a 2.5 liter VQ. Wait, a minute...why isn't the VQ25 going in the hybrid Altima!?

[C-Kwik]

Wait, a minute...why isn't the VQ25 going in the hybrid Altima!?

Cost I presume...