Brand new holset turbo failure

[ST240]

*Sigh*

With less than 400 kms, my brand new HX35 started emitting a "whine" indicating bearing failure. The noise can be heard under load only and it's louder when the engine is cold. I took the suction pipe off and felt the shaft play and yep, it is damn near contacting the housing (it actually looks like it has been contacting a bit). So it seems my brand new HX35 has bit the dust. Isn't that neat. A guy buys a brand new turbo with the hopes of avoiding this exact issue. Anyways...

I've found a rebuild kit close by, but i certainly don't want this happeneing again. I think we can rule out over oiling, as there was no oil in my IC pipes and it was not smoking. I was using the stock rb20 oil feed line with the m12x1.5 banjo. A bucket test shows plenty of oil at idle. Could the extreme heat from using the stock rb20/25 manifold have torched the bearings? Oil starvation somehow? What gives .

[Cjmartz2k]

Where did you get the turbo?

[ST240]

Where did you get the turbo?

From a sponsored guy on a diesel forum. I mean the thing did look brand new. Fresh with assembly marks and lubricant.

[Cjmartz2k]

Where did you get the turbo?

From a sponsored guy on a diesel forum. I mean the thing did look brand new. Fresh with assembly marks and lubricant.

Can u post some pics? Lots of copies around unfortunatly.

[USMCgetsome]

also if i was the op i'd be sending that ish back so you can have him fix it under some kind of warranty

[ST240]

Those aren't the greatest pics...

I'm sure its geniune. The seller is suggesting it might have failed because I didnt pre-oil it... Well hes right, i didnt pre oil it. Could that have caused it? Seems quite unlikely to me. It would be without oil for what, half a second? Plus they use assembly lubricant.

Any other ideas?

[Cjmartz2k]

Yeah, from what I can see it looks real. If it's got a plate on the cover that says made in England, that's another way to tell.

I've always been told if you aren't priming the oil pump before starting a turbo motor (not sure how you could on an RB) you should grab them impeller wheel with your fingers and keep it from spinning until your oil pressure is up and good for a couple seconds. Not sure how much real world damage not doing that causes, but I always heeded that advise. About the assemble lube, I don't think they do. I think the only lube in there is the grease they use to keep rust off of things.

[ST240]

Geez i wouldnt think very much. It's got no load on it and the oil would be there in a matter of a few fractions of a second. And yes i primed my pump by tilting the motor on its side with the pan and oil pump installed with it still on the engine stand, pouring oil into the high pressure side and rotating the engine backwards. Worked like a hot damn. This was for the sake of my engine not the turbo though .

Regardless... I have a rebuild kit on the way. Have you rebuilt any yourself with some type of longevity on them? I'll really be screaming if it craps out again in another 400 km .

[julio]

My turbo took at least a minute of cranking before it saw any oil pressure. I.E. New motor, rebuilt turbo, oil pressure gauge pre-turbo. After a minute of cranking and no oil pressure to the gauge, I took off the oil feed line and waited until I saw oil coming from the line until I finally cranked her over with fuel.

Did you check the radial play before installing it? I checked mine (rebuilt HX40) before I installed in and it it had about .4mm of play. Holset claims .3-.5mm of play is nominal.

[ST240]

A minute of cranking before oil pressure? That doesn't sound right at all. Was your pump primed? Yes there was some play before I installed it. I didnt measure it. There's obviously a considerable amount more now though.

This is a long shot but, could me blowing an intercooler pipe on the hot side on a WOT pull at 15-17+ psi @ 5000 RPM have caused it somehow? Cuz right after that is when i noticed it. Also, my car died right after that and i was doing lots of pulls so i couldnt turbo-time the car. Could that have caused it?

Edit: Just thought about something else. I was breaking the motor in with s*** dino oil. Perhaps coking is to blame? I guess I'll find out when I pull it apart.

[Cjmartz2k]

By priming the motor, I mean spinning the pump and actually building oil pressure. I have to do it on my jeep motor with a drill and an extension to slot in to the pump. Spin that bugger for like 30 seconds and if finally registers some pressure. Then I know it's good.

[bmart]

This is a long shot but, could me blowing an intercooler pipe on the hot side on a WOT pull at 15-17+ psi @ 5000 RPM have caused it somehow? Cuz right after that is when i noticed it. Also, my car died right after that and i was doing lots of pulls so i couldnt turbo-time the car. Could that have caused it?

This could have done it as the turbo starts spinning too fast and wears things out very quickly. Same thing happened to my brothers first hx35.

[ST240]

Faster than it's spinning building 20+ psi? Guess I better get my pipes welded then :/ .

[hungryjoseph]

is it seeing the right amount of oil pressure? do you have a restrictor on it? Taking a minute to get pressure at the turbo seems a little off to me. I don't know about rb's but on my sr with a new oil pump and rebuild motor it only took 5 seconds to get oil over there.

[ST240]

Yeah no I'm with you man that does sound way off. Especially when oil pressure is at like 80 psi on a cold start. It's not like it's going down a km of piping.

No I am not running a restrictor. Not necessary on the stock rb20 feed line. That was a little silly of me. I didn't verify the pressure it was seeing...

Edit: Just got it apart. I took a video of the shaft play with the cover off... It didn't seem like much when i was recording but upon playback, it looks significant. Rebuild, here I come.

[ST240]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8DDq_UOdzk

Lol. Watching me contradict myself about the shaft play is entertaining. It didn't seem like much, but by watching the videos it's apparent that there's a lot of play.

[Cjmartz2k]

That is a good bit of shaft play, but check the in/out play. That's more important IMHO.

[Carl H]

are you using the stock rb20 banjo bolts for the block feed?
if so it has an internal restrictor you'll need to drill out else it will be starved of oil!

[ST240]

The one that connects directly to the block!?!? I didn't touch that one at all.

But i started the car with the banjo to the turbo disconnected and oil delivery seemed good/ok/i dont know, it was flowing, lets put it that way...

Oh god. Do you think that's the problem?

EDIT: OH MY f*** GOD f*** MY STUPID WORTHLESS f*** DUMB a** LIFE.

YOU'RE RIGHT. BUT YOU CAN'T SEE IT FROM LOOKING FROM THE MALE END BECAUSE ITS COUNTER BORED. WHY ON EARTH WOULD THEY BE SO SNEAKY ABOUT IT OH MY GOD .

I'm gonna go have a whiskey. f*** you maximum number of smileys...

[ST240]

Thanks Carl. Glad you chimed in or i might be rebuilding that thing every 400 km for the rest of my life. I'm gonna cry if this rebuild process goes sideways on me somehow.

On a more productive note, do you think if i drill that out, that I will be over-feeding it? People are reporting ok results with -3 feeds. The stocker seems close to a -3 no? Any other crouching tiger hidden oil restrictors i should know about? Lol .

[d356bud]

if you go with a braided line you can do something like what I did. Its what the DSM guy have been doing to make oil restictors

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/article ... urbos.html

[Carl H]

i drilled it out to the size of the holes in the side of the banjo bolt but then i ended up needing a restrictor for my 30r...better safe than sorry tho as you can make adjustable restrictors.
that being said i run a -4 line, most people are fine with a -3 line and no restrictors...-4 normally needs a .063" (1/16") restrictor for a non bb turbo.

[ST240]

Right... What size did you use? And i was just gonna tap the bottom of the banjo on the turbo side and thread a set screw in there with the hole size of my choice drilled into it.