brake rotor drilling?
brake rotor drilling?
I'm just curious if anybody has ever tried cross drilling a set of rotors themselves? It seems to me that it would be time consuming and you'd eat up a couple of drill bits but it would still be cheaper than buying a set. I dont see any problems with doing it yourself as long as you drill in a consistent pattern and chamfer the holes to reduce stress points. Im just curious to see everybodys thoughts on this one............ I am preparing to do a 300z front brake upgrade and I found OEM brembo rotors for $20 each and I think that cross drilled rotors average about $90 and up each so you can see why I am thinking about this in a serious manner................
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skatanic28
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msaskin
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skatanic28 wrote:yeah dont bother drilling them. its not going to do anything for you except weaken the rotors and destroy your pads.but if they really are brembo blanks for 20 bucks jump on that.
What he said.
And then tell me where you can get brembo blanks for $20 because I'll buy at least 4 of them
~matt
You can get brembo oem 300z front rotors for $20 each at carparts.com. And I'm pretty sure that they use the same blanks for their crossdrilled rotors. I do plan on doing some research on this before I do anything, but I am aware of the dangers of the rotors cracking after uneven heat cycles already.........
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Checkered-Member
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yeah isnt that ironic how the "better" rotors are cheaper lol oh well......... but watch ebay for a good deal though. I just bought brand new stock rotors from a guy named "bunta240" on there and I paid like $42 total shipped to my door for a pair. They didnt have a brand name on them but I have put like 1k miles on them so far and they havent warped or anything yet.
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Nissan-S14
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drilled rotors are for posers, they dont do anything except eat your pads. If you want awesome rotors, bit expensive but wholy $hit are they worth. Get them from. I have them on my Z32 setup
http://www.powerslot.com
http://www.powerslot.com
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Checkered-Member
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WHAT? oh manNissan-S14 wrote:drilled rotors are for posers, they dont do anything except eat your pads. If you want awesome rotors, bit expensive but wholy $hit are they worth. Get them from. I have them on my Z32 setup
http://www.powerslot.com
1. why would Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini other high end makes and most race cars use drilled rotors? so they will eat the pads? I think NOT.
2. powerslot is a joke of a company, any company that makes dimpled rotors and claming they are better deserves to burn in hell. They are worse then APC at least they admit their stuff is crap (notice that you can’t spell crap without A P C)
I have had Brembo drilled rotors for over a year, and I couldn’t be happier, my old rotors would over heat, glaze, and loose grip but these once you can abuse without any signs of brake fade, and my pads are thicker then ever, and I’m an aggressive driver.
i dont htink drilling them yourself would be a great idea...mainly because a lot of human error is involved when you drill by hand- and with that many holes, yeesh...
whatever brembo makes, i'm sure a lot of engineering goes into it. now compare that to the drilled/slotted rotors from shops that may use brembo blanks, but blindly drill into them without much thought besides "holes=less heat." i'm generalizing but do you really think those shops put a lot of RnD into their work? i guess the point is that the rotors on ferraris, porsches, or big brake kits were designed to have holes in them, and regular rotors were not.
whatever brembo makes, i'm sure a lot of engineering goes into it. now compare that to the drilled/slotted rotors from shops that may use brembo blanks, but blindly drill into them without much thought besides "holes=less heat." i'm generalizing but do you really think those shops put a lot of RnD into their work? i guess the point is that the rotors on ferraris, porsches, or big brake kits were designed to have holes in them, and regular rotors were not.
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Nissan-S14
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People use cross-drilled rotors (and or slotted) for a reason, and its not so their pads would wear down quicker. Saying they're for posers is the dumbest thing i've ever heard. Cross drilling them yourself? I wouldnt go for it like mentioned above, too much human error, problems with spacing, width of the holes, companies like Brembo spend alot of time and money into figuring it out where the holes go and what they should be, leave it upto them.
Thanks for the input guys I like to get a lot of opinions on things like this before I do them. And to set the record straight, crossdrilling and slotting has many benefits. The biggest benefit that people never mention is NOT just the dissopation of heat but the slots and/or holes allow gasses to escape from between the pads and the rotors that are created during hard braking situations. As for drilling them by hand I am not sure if it is a good idea either and IF I were to do it I would create a template for the rotors and I would also check into what size hole to drill. And I just checked carparts.com and I see that the price went up. I am actually mad at myself because I had 2 in my shopping cart and was going to buy them a couple of days ago but I didnt. I'd be willing to bet the $21 or so each was an error and they caught it after a few sales.
straight from BAER brakes:
What are the benefits to Crossdrilling, Slotting, and Zinc-Washing my rotors?In years past, crossdrilling and/or Slotting the rotor for racing purposes was beneficial by providing a way to expel the gasses created when the bonding agents employed to manufacture the pads began to break down at extreme temperatures. This condition is often referred to as “green pad fade” or “outgassing”. When it does occur, the driver still has a good firm brake pedal, but simply little or no friction. Since this normally happens only at temperatures witnessed in racing, this can be very exciting!
However, with today’s race pad technology, ‘outgassing’ is no longer much of a concern. When shopping for races pads, or even ultra-high performance road pads, look for the phrases, “dynamic surface treatment”, “race ready”, and/or, “pre-burnished”. When these or similar statements are made by the pad manufacturer, the pad in question will likely have little or no problem with ‘outgassing’. Ironically more pedestrian pads used on most streetcars will still exhibit ‘outgassing’, but only when used at temperatures normally only encountered on the racetrack.
Although crossdrilling and/or slotting will provide a welcome path to expend any gasses when and if they develop, it is primarily a visual enhancement behind today’s often wide-open wheel designs.
Crossdrilling offers the greatest gas relief pathway, but creates potential “stress risers” from which cracks can occur. Baer’s rotors are cast with crossdrilling in mind, from the material specified, to curved vanes, behind which the holes are placed to minimize potential crack migration. Slotted surfaces are what Baer recommends for track only use. Slotted only rotors are offered as an option for any of Baer’s offerings.
Zinc washing is then done to provide a barrier, which resists development of surface scales or rust.
What are the benefits to Crossdrilling, Slotting, and Zinc-Washing my rotors?In years past, crossdrilling and/or Slotting the rotor for racing purposes was beneficial by providing a way to expel the gasses created when the bonding agents employed to manufacture the pads began to break down at extreme temperatures. This condition is often referred to as “green pad fade” or “outgassing”. When it does occur, the driver still has a good firm brake pedal, but simply little or no friction. Since this normally happens only at temperatures witnessed in racing, this can be very exciting!
However, with today’s race pad technology, ‘outgassing’ is no longer much of a concern. When shopping for races pads, or even ultra-high performance road pads, look for the phrases, “dynamic surface treatment”, “race ready”, and/or, “pre-burnished”. When these or similar statements are made by the pad manufacturer, the pad in question will likely have little or no problem with ‘outgassing’. Ironically more pedestrian pads used on most streetcars will still exhibit ‘outgassing’, but only when used at temperatures normally only encountered on the racetrack.
Although crossdrilling and/or slotting will provide a welcome path to expend any gasses when and if they develop, it is primarily a visual enhancement behind today’s often wide-open wheel designs.
Crossdrilling offers the greatest gas relief pathway, but creates potential “stress risers” from which cracks can occur. Baer’s rotors are cast with crossdrilling in mind, from the material specified, to curved vanes, behind which the holes are placed to minimize potential crack migration. Slotted surfaces are what Baer recommends for track only use. Slotted only rotors are offered as an option for any of Baer’s offerings.
Zinc washing is then done to provide a barrier, which resists development of surface scales or rust.
Crossdrilling
Crossdrilling your rotors might look neat, but what is it really doing for you? Well, unless your car is using brake pads from the 40’s and 50’s, not a whole lot. Rotors were first ‘drilled’ because early brake pad materials gave off gasses when heated to racing temperatures – a process known as ‘gassing out’. These gasses then formed a thin layer between the brake pad face and the rotor, acting as a lubricant and effectively lowering the coefficient of friction. The holes were implemented to give the gasses ‘somewhere to go’. It was an effective solution, but today’s friction materials do not exhibit the same gassing out phenomenon as the early pads.
For this reason, the holes have carried over more as a design feature than a performance feature. Contrary to popular belief they don’t lower temperatures (in fact, by removing weight from the rotor, the temperatures can actually increase a little), they create stress risers allowing the rotor to crack sooner, and make a mess of brake pads – sort of like a cheese grater rubbing against them at every stop. (Want more evidence? Look at NASCAR or F1. You would think that if drilling holes in the rotor was the hot ticket, these teams would be doing it.)
The one glaring exception here is in the rare situation where the rotors are so oversized (look at any performance motorcycle or lighter formula car) that the rotors are drilled like Swiss cheese. While the issues of stress risers and brake pad wear are still present, drilling is used to reduce the mass of the parts in spite of these concerns. Remember – nothing comes for free. If these teams switched to non-drilled rotors, they would see lower operating temperatures and longer brake pad life – at the expense of higher weight. It’s all about trade-offs.
Slotting
Slotting rotors, on the other hand, might be a consideration if your sanctioning body allows for it. Cutting thin slots across the face of the rotor can actually help to clean the face of the brake pads over time, helping to reduce the ‘glazing’ often found during high-speed use which can lower the coefficient of friction. While there may still be a small concern over creating stress risers in the face of the rotor, if the slots are shallow and cut properly, the trade-off appears to be worth the risk. (Have you looked at a NASCAR rotor lately?)
Crossdrilling your rotors might look neat, but what is it really doing for you? Well, unless your car is using brake pads from the 40’s and 50’s, not a whole lot. Rotors were first ‘drilled’ because early brake pad materials gave off gasses when heated to racing temperatures – a process known as ‘gassing out’. These gasses then formed a thin layer between the brake pad face and the rotor, acting as a lubricant and effectively lowering the coefficient of friction. The holes were implemented to give the gasses ‘somewhere to go’. It was an effective solution, but today’s friction materials do not exhibit the same gassing out phenomenon as the early pads.
For this reason, the holes have carried over more as a design feature than a performance feature. Contrary to popular belief they don’t lower temperatures (in fact, by removing weight from the rotor, the temperatures can actually increase a little), they create stress risers allowing the rotor to crack sooner, and make a mess of brake pads – sort of like a cheese grater rubbing against them at every stop. (Want more evidence? Look at NASCAR or F1. You would think that if drilling holes in the rotor was the hot ticket, these teams would be doing it.)
The one glaring exception here is in the rare situation where the rotors are so oversized (look at any performance motorcycle or lighter formula car) that the rotors are drilled like Swiss cheese. While the issues of stress risers and brake pad wear are still present, drilling is used to reduce the mass of the parts in spite of these concerns. Remember – nothing comes for free. If these teams switched to non-drilled rotors, they would see lower operating temperatures and longer brake pad life – at the expense of higher weight. It’s all about trade-offs.
Slotting
Slotting rotors, on the other hand, might be a consideration if your sanctioning body allows for it. Cutting thin slots across the face of the rotor can actually help to clean the face of the brake pads over time, helping to reduce the ‘glazing’ often found during high-speed use which can lower the coefficient of friction. While there may still be a small concern over creating stress risers in the face of the rotor, if the slots are shallow and cut properly, the trade-off appears to be worth the risk. (Have you looked at a NASCAR rotor lately?)
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Nissan-S14
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Like I said cross drilling is for show, nothing else.
When you drill a rotor you weaken it and cause stress points that can lead to cracking and ultimately failure. Also drilled rotors lose considerable surface area compared to slotted rotors, which means less active braking area for pad to rotor contact.
When you drill a rotor you weaken it and cause stress points that can lead to cracking and ultimately failure. Also drilled rotors lose considerable surface area compared to slotted rotors, which means less active braking area for pad to rotor contact.
Okay, before we go any farther I am not arguing the difference between slotted and crossdrilled rotors and I want to make that perfectly clear. Personally I prefer to have BOTH. Now having said that I have a direct quote from the POWERSLOT website about rotor outgassing:
Heat is the primary cause of ineffective brakes due to fade. There is actually a “boundary layer” of gases that builds up between the pad and rotor surface which inhibits performance. Here’s where Power Slot rotors make a big difference. The exclusive Vac-U-Slots machined into the rotor “wipes” brake pads clean, evacuates gases, and sheds heat. A combination of a “high performance pad” and Power Slot rotors will provide superior reliable braking for virtually all automotive and truck applications, with an upgrade to larger diameter rotors and bigger calipers typically only needed for the most severe competition applications.
By reading this quote you can easily see them refer to the buildup of gasses between the rotor and pad being an issue. Now, like I said before I am aware of cracking issues with using drilled rotors and I would prefer to have drilled and slotted rotors. I started this thread specifically to get input on doing the drilling yourself vs. buying them drilled. I actually will eventually buy better rotors but for the initial swap all that I can get is stock. And lets now forget the important fact that I am refering to using an oversized 300z rotor and not a factory 240 rotor which makes a difference too..................... p.s. I HAVE seen a nascar car recently and the rotors on it looked like swiss cheese they were slotted AND crossdrilled. I got up close and personal with rusty wallace's 2003 bristol wrecked car because one of the towing companies that contracts from Bristol is just down the road. I also have a motorcycle too, a cruiser bike, and my front rotor is rather small but crossdrilled for braking performance only as the drilling isnt near enough to reduce weight. Here's a pic to prove Im not lying about the bristol car.
Heat is the primary cause of ineffective brakes due to fade. There is actually a “boundary layer” of gases that builds up between the pad and rotor surface which inhibits performance. Here’s where Power Slot rotors make a big difference. The exclusive Vac-U-Slots machined into the rotor “wipes” brake pads clean, evacuates gases, and sheds heat. A combination of a “high performance pad” and Power Slot rotors will provide superior reliable braking for virtually all automotive and truck applications, with an upgrade to larger diameter rotors and bigger calipers typically only needed for the most severe competition applications.
By reading this quote you can easily see them refer to the buildup of gasses between the rotor and pad being an issue. Now, like I said before I am aware of cracking issues with using drilled rotors and I would prefer to have drilled and slotted rotors. I started this thread specifically to get input on doing the drilling yourself vs. buying them drilled. I actually will eventually buy better rotors but for the initial swap all that I can get is stock. And lets now forget the important fact that I am refering to using an oversized 300z rotor and not a factory 240 rotor which makes a difference too..................... p.s. I HAVE seen a nascar car recently and the rotors on it looked like swiss cheese they were slotted AND crossdrilled. I got up close and personal with rusty wallace's 2003 bristol wrecked car because one of the towing companies that contracts from Bristol is just down the road. I also have a motorcycle too, a cruiser bike, and my front rotor is rather small but crossdrilled for braking performance only as the drilling isnt near enough to reduce weight. Here's a pic to prove Im not lying about the bristol car.
hmm....I wonder why it crashed??
lol, just messing w/ya.
Well, it's different strokes for different folks I guess. I mean, I do believe that pads don't gas anymore, however you cannot forget the small film of ambient air that gets trapped between the rotor surface and the pad. If this does occur, overheating it with friction would cause this air to expand and I would see the benefit of slots in them. Also, like I mentioned in my previous post, yes they do clean the pad surface by literally "shredding" some of the glaze off the pads. But I don't know...different companies say different things and I don't know if powerslot (who makes great rotors) are just saying this for marketing purposes or not...
lol, just messing w/ya.
Well, it's different strokes for different folks I guess. I mean, I do believe that pads don't gas anymore, however you cannot forget the small film of ambient air that gets trapped between the rotor surface and the pad. If this does occur, overheating it with friction would cause this air to expand and I would see the benefit of slots in them. Also, like I mentioned in my previous post, yes they do clean the pad surface by literally "shredding" some of the glaze off the pads. But I don't know...different companies say different things and I don't know if powerslot (who makes great rotors) are just saying this for marketing purposes or not...
again brembo said the following:
DRILLS AND SLOTSBoth drills and slots improve braking consistency, continuously cleaning and refreshing the pad surface. These slots or drilling provide a path to disperse built-up heat and gasses that result from pads acting on the rotors, as well as help to clean and refresh the pad surface. Both help in interrupting the water film in wet driving conditions, improving the brake response; this effect is more sensitive on cross-drilled discs owing to the different full/empty ratio of the surface and the possibility to have water flowing through theholes in the ventilation gap (on vented discs). On the other hand, where extreme friction level is required, the adoption of a highly aggressive pad such as in racing applications is necessary and slots are the right solution: being the slots not all through the disc thickness, the overall mechanical resistance of the disc is higher. Additionally, all of Brembo’s slotted discs are directional: the discs should be installed such that the end of the slot nearest the outer edge of the disc contacts the pad first.
again contradicting to my original point. Still I can't help but think that the way something looks has big selling power (you can't deny they look awesome!!)
DRILLS AND SLOTSBoth drills and slots improve braking consistency, continuously cleaning and refreshing the pad surface. These slots or drilling provide a path to disperse built-up heat and gasses that result from pads acting on the rotors, as well as help to clean and refresh the pad surface. Both help in interrupting the water film in wet driving conditions, improving the brake response; this effect is more sensitive on cross-drilled discs owing to the different full/empty ratio of the surface and the possibility to have water flowing through theholes in the ventilation gap (on vented discs). On the other hand, where extreme friction level is required, the adoption of a highly aggressive pad such as in racing applications is necessary and slots are the right solution: being the slots not all through the disc thickness, the overall mechanical resistance of the disc is higher. Additionally, all of Brembo’s slotted discs are directional: the discs should be installed such that the end of the slot nearest the outer edge of the disc contacts the pad first.
again contradicting to my original point. Still I can't help but think that the way something looks has big selling power (you can't deny they look awesome!!)
Well, you have a terriffic point there chingy lol. Everybody has an opinion about things like this and every company does too ( Im sure their opinion "influences" the sale of their product ). To be perfectly honest I feel like either drilling or slotting will help and both are just as good for hard braking versus stock rotors. And I know that powerslot makes a great product ( however I feel is a little pricey ). In my experience I have seen dozens of companies with a similar product have conflicting facts so I dont take any one company's word for anything anymore. I also know that there are pro's and con's to every upgrade. But, as with all of my other mods I am going the cheap route for now because I am on a very limited budget. And honestly the whole outgassing thing in my opinion depends on the type of pads you are using because of the variety of materials used these days. As for the hole argument that somebody got started about crossdrilling vs. slotting like I said I prefer a combo of both and if both have slight drawbacks. So in my opinion it is all a matter of preference, but they BOTH do serve a purpose other than looks.
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skatanic28
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