Brake fluid bleeding and Electric park brake

[Leo1818]

I am bleeding my wife's 2018 rogue with Electric park brake and auto hold function. Do I have to release the electric park brake before bleeding? Does the electric brake change the bleeding process? Or just bleeding as regular car? I had change the brake fluid for my corolla several times.

Any comments? Thanks a lot.

[VStar650CL]

The ESM doesn't specifically say, however, the EPB is electromechanical and not hydraulic, so it shouldn't make a difference whether the piston is mechanically in or out. It is important to power the ABS down during bleeding. Here are the bleeding instructions from the ESM (same for both conventional and e-brake):

1) Turn ignition switch OFF and disconnect disconnect ABS actuator (control unit) connector or negative battery terminal
2) Connect a vinyl tube to front (RH) brake caliper bleeder valve.
3) Fully depress brake pedal 4 or 5 times
4) With brake pedal depressed, loosen bleeder valve to bleed air in brake line, and then tighten it immediately.
Repeat steps 3 and 4 until all of the air is out of the brake line
5) Tighten the bleeder valve to the specified torque. Refer to Exploded View (front disc brake), Exploded View (rear disc brake-except electric parking brake system). Exploded View (Rear disc brake-electric parking brake system)
6) Repeat steps 2 through 6, with the reservoir tank filled at least halfway. Bleed the air in the following order: front (RH), front (LH), rear (RH), rear (LH)
7) Reconnect battery

Watch the reservoir like a hawk, because if you accidentally bleed the fluid past the bottom, you'll need to bleed the master and ABS (in that order) and then bleed the wheels all over again.

[Leo1818]

The ESM doesn't specifically say, however, the EPB is electromechanical and not hydraulic, so it shouldn't make a difference whether the piston is mechanically in or out. It is important to power the ABS down during bleeding. Here are the bleeding instructions from the ESM (same for both conventional and e-brake):

1) Turn ignition switch OFF and disconnect disconnect ABS actuator (control unit) connector or negative battery terminal
2) Connect a vinyl tube to front (RH) brake caliper bleeder valve.
3) Fully depress brake pedal 4 or 5 times
4) With brake pedal depressed, loosen bleeder valve to bleed air in brake line, and then tighten it immediately.
Repeat steps 3 and 4 until all of the air is out of the brake line
5) Tighten the bleeder valve to the specified torque. Refer to Exploded View (front disc brake), Exploded View (rear disc brake-except electric parking brake system). Exploded View (Rear disc brake-electric parking brake system)
6) Repeat steps 2 through 6, with the reservoir tank filled at least halfway. Bleed the air in the following order: front (RH), front (LH), rear (RH), rear (LH)
7) Reconnect battery

Watch the reservoir like a hawk, because if you accidentally bleed the fluid past the bottom, you'll need to bleed the master and ABS (in that order) and then bleed the wheels all over again.

Thanks a lot.

[VStar650CL]

You're most welcome, happy motoring!

[D1dad]

Yeah I didn’t do the abs disconnect on my wife’s 2018. I did it as normal, starting from the right rear working up to the wheel closest to the reservoir. No issues either time. Maybe next time I’ll disconnect the battery to be safe. On a side note, dot 4 changed the bite from the brakes by a noticeable difference.

[Leo1818]

Thank you both. I just changed the brake fluid. I used the sequence that service manual provided: front (RH), front (LH), rear (RH), rear (LH).

I used a vacuum pump to bleed the front brakes without issue. But I could not get the rear brake bleeding by using that. I then tried the traditionally one man method and it works that way. I suspected my rear bleed screws were rusted and cannot be fully open. But anyway, I should be good before I sell it.

[D1dad]

Not that I’d recommend it. But many a cars are rotting in junk yards with factory fluid in them. I did my 03 Altima at 100k. Not proud by any means, just younger back then and drove cars till the wheels fell off with minimal maintenance. I personally feel that 20k is a little overboard but do it anyways now. Switching to dot 4 was worth it to me.

[bngamb]

Doing first time brake bleed. Seam that disconnecting the negative battery terminal is much easier than the connector, will need a code for resetting the radio security system after reconnecting battery.

[D1dad]

I’m going to do this tonight using this method but wanna make sure I won’t have to go to the dealer for a reset of sorts by disconnecting the battery for an extended period of time? Also this sequence seems to go against virtually all of Nissans service manuals by starting up front. Hopefully vstar can chime in here. Nothing about this sequence really makes any since, but neither does the azz hat engineer who designed the cabin filter locations. My knuckles are still bleeding and am just starting to move my neck.

[VStar650CL]

That sequence I posted was right out of the FSM. All I can tell you is that the sequence depends heavily on the internal design of the ABS, so the old wisdom of bleeding the longest lines first doesn't always apply.

The cabin filter... yah.

[D1dad]

It worked. But so did right rear, then left, then right front and then left last time. No reset for anything and no difference in the brakes whatsoever. But, I satisfied Nissans ocd of flushing brake fluid, with no mention of maintaining your cvt till they’re off the hook and then get sued in a class action. Maybe if they reversed the cvt maintenance (like Honda) when they knew their trannies would cook the fluid, they wouldn’t have to extend warranties and make good folk like you have to fight like hell with them. You’re a good man Vstar. Now the cabin filter is a story that will be passed down for generations! I’ve changed my cvt fluid 9 times in 80k, yet only changed the cabin filter 3. And every dam time when I ripped that thing out like a catfish swallowed the hook….it was still, just fine!

[VStar650CL]

Now the cabin filter is a story that will be passed down for generations! I’ve changed my cvt fluid 9 times in 80k, yet only changed the cabin filter 3. And every dam time when I ripped that thing out like a catfish swallowed the hook….it was still, just fine!

[D1dad]

Can you verify if this sequence applies to a 21 Altima? Also an 09 Altima? The 21 is at 35k and my tester shows 1% water but figured I’d do it to be safe. Now the 09 has been done multiple times (probably wrong) and the booster is tight when the car is off. Maybe a correct bleeding would remedy it? I installed Ebc rotors and red stuff pads so the brakes would shoot the passenger out the front window if they weren’t buckled in, but my ocd on this is gnawing at me.

[VStar650CL]

Can you verify if this sequence applies to a 21 Altima? Also an 09 Altima?

The '21 is RF-LF-RR-LR, same as the gen2 Rogue. The '09 uses a dual diagonal pattern, RR-LF-LR-RF. With DD type ABS's it doesn't really matter which diagonal you do first, just so you bleed a rear first and then the opposite front.

[D1dad]

Thanks Vstar. Your value to this forum is unmatched. If only every dealership had a vstar.

[VStar650CL]

Thanks Vstar. Your value to this forum is unmatched. If only every dealership had a vstar.

It's funny you say that. Once upon a time, every dealership did have somebody like me: The old timer who couldn't sling flat rate engines and trannies anymore, but was paid hourly or part time so the knowledge didn't disappear. When I started in this business in the early '70's, you'd have needed to look hard to find a shop which didn't have an alta kaka who was the keeper of the knowledge flame. Shops which didn't were at a serious disadvantage without a mentor for their young bucks. Granted that the quality of "Nissan School" back then wasn't what it is now, but schooling only takes you so far. Somewhere along the line, the industry's infatuation with flat rate got so ridiculous that the whole concept was lost. I was fortunate that several of my Service Managers knew better and convinced the GM to keep me on, and eventually the GM figured it out as well and stopped arguing. It shows in our "F1" scores, even if it doesn't necessarily show up in the bottom line. Now, mind you, I'm not one of those chumps who thinks the good old days actually were better. I like my smartphone, I like the phone in my car, I like cars that run a quarter million miles with good maintenance, and I especially like the smartass VDC systems that once saved my life. I don't want the '70's back for one minute, even the music sucked. But -- there are a very few blasts from the past which would serve humanity well in a renaissance, and the concept of the "old timer in the service department" is certainly one of them.

[D1dad]

Well said. My mechanic, who I only use when I don’t feel Ike crawling under the car (I’m 51) is the same and the only one I trust to touch my cars, if it’s not me. He’s pushing 60 and can work on anything from a diesel to a bmw and everything in between. He has a couple of young guys working under him and claims it’s mostly for their unbroken bodies and often entertainment value. I stopped in last week and he had just gotten back from vacation and had 2 days worth of work that the know it all ase taught couldn’t fix. 1 being a x series bmw that they couldn’t get the engine swap done on. I often remind the young guys who I work with of the story of the young and old bull. I’ll walk down that hill.

[VStar650CL]

I often remind the young guys who I work with of the story of the young and old bull. I’ll walk down that hill.

Indeed.

[Boulder.rogue]

The ESM doesn't specifically say, however, the EPB is electromechanical and not hydraulic, so it shouldn't make a difference whether the piston is mechanically in or out. It is important to power the ABS down during bleeding. Here are the bleeding instructions from the ESM (same for both conventional and e-brake):

1) Turn ignition switch OFF and disconnect disconnect ABS actuator (control unit) connector or negative battery terminal
2) Connect a vinyl tube to front (RH) brake caliper bleeder valve.
3) Fully depress brake pedal 4 or 5 times
4) With brake pedal depressed, loosen bleeder valve to bleed air in brake line, and then tighten it immediately.
Repeat steps 3 and 4 until all of the air is out of the brake line
5) Tighten the bleeder valve to the specified torque. Refer to Exploded View (front disc brake), Exploded View (rear disc brake-except electric parking brake system). Exploded View (Rear disc brake-electric parking brake system)
6) Repeat steps 2 through 6, with the reservoir tank filled at least halfway. Bleed the air in the following order: front (RH), front (LH), rear (RH), rear (LH)
7) Reconnect battery

Watch the reservoir like a hawk, because if you accidentally bleed the fluid past the bottom, you'll need to bleed the master and ABS (in that order) and then bleed the wheels all over again.

Is it the same procedure for our T33?

[VStar650CL]

Is it the same procedure for our T33?

It's a D-D system, RHR -> LHF -> LHR -> RHF.

Otherwise the same.

[Boulder.rogue]

Is it the same procedure for our T33?

It's a D-D system, RHR -> LHF -> LHR -> RHF.

Otherwise the same.

Will be doing the brake bleeding today.
Thank you very much!

[VStar650CL]

[D1dad]

So I locked up the brakes a few times which stiffened the peddle after the dealer gave me back my car with spongy brakes. This worked until I tried to pressure bleed the system. Now I’m back to a spongy peddle. I even tried the old fashioned way and no go there either. I’m at a loss? I’ve never had brakes I couldn’t bleed but here I am. I may go to harbor freight and buy a vacuum bleeder that sucks the fluid from the bleed screw. I think my pressure bleeder may be introducing air into the system. I have an abs scan tool and I made the abs solenoids act up which was all my ancel tool could do, Nissan doesn’t have a procedure written into my programmer. No luck there either. The peddle and brakes actually work well, I just can’t stand not having a rock hard peddle.

[VStar650CL]

To bleed with the actuators you never do it at the wheels, you need to crack the fitting at the ABS as you activate each corresponding actuator. If you crack the wheel fitting, the air will exit the ABS but likely get caught in a bubble at the bend right above the ABS unit. Then you can be screwed, because depending on the shape of the lines, buoyancy will try to keep that bubble where it is and only a vacuum bleed will get it to move.

[D1dad]

What do you use at the dealership vstar? I tried a pressure bleeder that forces the fluid from the top. I tried a little hand vacuum pump at each caliper and no difference. My scan tool will make the actuators “act up”, but it activates front right and rear left and front left and rear right together. I’m tempted to take this to a shop. My dealer is an hour away.

[VStar650CL]

The Consult lets us activate one solenoid at a time, but for the most part we use a vacuum bleeder that sucks all 4 wheels at once and refills/pressurizes the reservoir. Seems to work well, I suppose because it gives the air noplace to hide, all it can do is choose a direction.

[V6er]

on MY2014 I can use EconTool to activate pump for particular brake line.