BOOSTDESIGNS TURBO KIT?

[nizmo240sx_22]

Here's the mani and intercooler.He also put it on ebay to "get his name out there" ...this was before he sponsored ka-t.org

[RedRum240]

does the stage 1 kit come with injectors and a fuel rail and everything? cause I saw that the stage 2 kit says it comes with everything in the stage 1 kit + a walboro 255lph fuel pump + a fuel rail and injectors and so fourth so this means that the stage 1 kit doesnt have injectors and fuel rail included?

[nizmo240sx_22]

A FMU is included with stage 1

[RedRum240]

whats FMU stand for and what does it do? haha

[RedRum240]

also how long do you think boost designs will be in business? do you think they will be in business 6-8-10 months from now? or do I need to rush and buy my turbo kit?

[nizmo240sx_22]

FMU=Fuel Management Unit=Increases fuel pressure for each psi of boost to correct air/fuel ratios.

There is no way to tell how long they will be in business but with the customer support they are offering now....I would think they're here to stay.

[nizmo240sx_22]

When IAP first came out I talked to them also for over 2 hours and I had nothing bad to say about them, but I didnt buy the mani since couple of my friends got them on group buy and I was gonna wait till I saw the mani in person. Once I saw it. It was good from far. Far from good. Well since the install one motor blew from boost creep and the other is not running becasue of boost creep and lack of time and funds to fix it.Most of you dont know, but my car was the 3rd or 4th KA-T in the US and I've been ripped off or not delivered items promised a couple of times by shops since I started. So I've been around for a while. I ran one of the first and then the second and finally the third F-max manis, REV Hard mani etc.Im not ripping on BD mani nor the products at all. I just dont like when people misadvertise stuff. Its like me getting a bunch of HKS boost controllers and putting my sticker on there to make me look like Im actually doing something.If BD and BE advertised the truth I would have a different opinion.Why take credit for someone elses products???? The only credit both companies deserve in my opinion is getting the sh1t out there for people to buy....Thats it.

We're not talking about iap. I'm sorry you got screwed; However stop ripping on boostdesigns. You're talking about Boostevolutions. Go to boostdesign's site and find a "mis advertisement".....He doesn't claim to "own" the shop or whatever you're talking about. If you're protecting the phat-ka-t mani to the death go ahead, but don't bit*h about BD because of that.Honestly man don't take BE's word to be BD's.

[RedRum240]

so since kit 1 does include a fuel rail do you even need a fuel rail to run turbo? so does STAGE KIT 1 have eveyrthing I will nbeed to turbo charge my 1993 ka24de? please answer..

[Jeff240sx]

so since kit 1 does include a fuel rail do you even need a fuel rail to run turbo? so does STAGE KIT 1 have eveyrthing I will nbeed to turbo charge my 1993 ka24de? please answer..

For ****s sake, go do your own research. And this is threadjacking to it's finest. Stage one with a T3 and rrfpr you'll have enough fuel to barely be turbocharged. Stage 2 provides larger injectors and the rail (unless that changed during hte site redesign). If you don't know these things, and what fuel issues you'll have, or even a clue about what you're doing... you have no business attacking your car with a wrench.-Jeff

[RedRum240]

sorry, I am just really excited cause I found a way to save me 5k on turbing my car not getting a SR anymore. why is the stage one so ****ty? he claims u can get 232 rwhp just bolting it onto your car.

[K240]

sorry, I am just really excited cause I found a way to save me 5k on turbing my car not getting a SR anymore. why is the stage one so ****ty? he claims u can get 232 rwhp just bolting it onto your car.

supposedly its a good kit. I dont personally know that, as i dont have the kit. But, the stage 1 kit streches the stock fuel system. The stock fuel system can handle it though, as long as you dont add more boost. If you want more boost you will need to upgrade imediately.

[RedRum240]

what if I got stage 1 kit and a 255lph fuel pump? would that help a little? or is it mainly the injector/fuel rail issue that causes wether or not u can boost more?

[K240]

what if I got stage 1 kit and a 255lph fuel pump? would that help a little? or is it mainly the injector/fuel rail issue that causes wether or not u can boost more?

the fuel pump and injectors would definitely help. The fuel rail isnt needed as much.

[nr2134]

"He doesn't claim to "own" the shop or whatever you're talking about."

I dont normally do this, but I think Ill share a part of an email I just got from PJ from BD. Word for word out of an email I just received.

" i have a shop i operate out of when i choose to do R&D"

Hmmm.

"If you're protecting the phat-ka-t mani to the death go ahead, but don't bit*h about BD because of that."

Protecting the phatka-t mani??? Last time I checked the mani didnt need any protection, but Ill keep an eye on it next time I go visit PhatKa-T.com shop. My post stands about ATR's quality when it comes to manifolds. Like I mentioned a while back. I like the BD mani design. Its one of the nicer ones out there, but all we can do is wait and see if ATR got their quality up.Of course I wont be running that mani, but you already knew that.

As far as you feeling sorry for me goes about me gettin screwed on a couple of deals....dont. I sure dont. I wanted to own one of the first KA-Ts out there I had to pay the price. No biggie.

My biggest problem with either company was the business practices and ethics.Guess what happenes to companies that low ball everyone and barely make any profit???? They go out of business eventually and take some legit REAL SHOPS down with them. Sure the customers benefit for a while, but what you gonna do when you need a real shop to work on your car and none are around?? This of course is on the extreme side of the spectrum. I highly doubt BD and BE could make a ripple in the performance market.

Alot of you dont know retail prices on some of the products advertised on BD and BE, but I do. I guess when you have no overhead you are happy when making $5 on certain products.

[nr2134]

supposedly its a good kit. I dont personally know that, as i dont have the kit. But, the stage 1 kit streches the stock fuel system. The stock fuel system can handle it though, as long as you dont add more boost. If you want more boost you will need to upgrade imediately.

Save your money and get some injectors and stay away from FMU setups. All you need is a little boost spike and you are spending more money. Just because someone tells you it worked fine for them. Doesnt mean it will work for you the same way.

[nizmo240sx_22]

"He doesn't claim to "own" the shop or whatever you're talking about."

I dont normally do this, but I think Ill share a part of an email I just got from PJ from BD. Word for word out of an email I just received.

" i have a shop i operate out of when i choose to do R&D"

What I meant was the atr. The shop that builds the mani's ect. I know BD has a shop but he doesn't claim to own the shop that builds his mani and stuff.

Quote »The pictures of their fabrication shop are not "their" fab shop. They run an Internet business out of an apartment complex.[/quote]I'll agree with you on the quality of the manifolds. I was skeptical until I received it and now I couldn't be happier. I'm sure they are the two best mani's (price wise) out for the ka .....I as many others don't have $800 to shell out for phat's. Lets just make sure we seperate BD and BE for good though. BE's reputation shouldn't spill over to BD's.

[DammitBobby]

But not the kit...which is what I was planning on putting a large sum of money into.

I will be posting pics of the install of the Stage 1 kit this weekend. I plan on working with PJ on the phone as well as using a VEO web camera ($200)that will provide a live feed as I am working on this project. The only problem with the cam is that only one person can view at a time but you can pan 180 degrees, zoom and take pictures. This will be my first attempt to install a turbo kit with no experience.

[Redline240]

I was watching Overhauling last night and they mentioned that one of the guys there owns Boost Designs...the tall nerdy guy with the black framed glasses...i'm after seeing him on a few shows now, seems to know his way around a car...

Redline

[hannibal]

Jeez, I doubt any small time KA turbo kit maker has a full shop with million dollar equipment. My main concern was the similarities to BE and other kits. I would be certain he has no relationship with those guys before giving him my money.I dont have a problem with a guy putting his brand on a product, but if I ask specifically where it came from (who designed and manufactures it), he better not lie to me.If I were trying to buy this kit immediately, I would contact the guy and hear what he has to say. At least give him a chance to establish a reputation. Its wrong to judge him based on hear-say and 'maybes'...

And nr, the quote from the email says exactly what I would say. He didnt say anything about owning the shop. He said he works with a shop for R&D (and production, I assume). When I first saw the pics on the website, I thought this was the case. No one has that kinda stuff in their basement/small shop.

"How long are they gonna be around?"Nobody knows, but if you thought he'd go outta business next week, would you really wanna buy from him, anyway? We know of 2 guys that have dealt with BD (Klattr and Nizmo) and thats 2 satisfied customers so far. Assuming they have no prior relationship, I'd say BoostDesigns is 2-for-2.

[AZhitman]

Well, I'd like to chime in on this, since it's apparent that there's a lot of misinformation.

NR2134: No offense, but you have a lot to learn about aftermarket parts suppliers and manufacturing. If you came looking for BRM Exhaust, you'd find a bedroom office and a pile of files and invoices a mile deep. Doesn't mean that I don't do my own R&D and dyno testing, it just means that it's done elsewhere and I share space with other companies manufacturing different stuff. I don't spend a fortune on advertising, but I guarantee that what my fabricators build (in a multi-million dollar shop with state-of-the art equipment) is better than Apex-i, Greddy or anything else you can find. And I can back it up with a list of reasons why it's better.

Remember, the same fabricators that make my S13/S14 exhausts also make the NISMO 350Z/G35 headers, and a few other companies' catbacks (that have to remain nameless, because people think they have their own "stand-alone" shop).

Very few of the companies you mentioned actually do all their own R&D. It just doesn't work that way anymore.

Anyway, I have spoken with PJ (and Mark) and believe them to be stand-up guys, with a quality kit at a great price. If you spend thousands of dollars a month on glossy magazine ads, you have to pass those costs on to the customer.

Frankly, that's stupid. Yep. Stupid.

That's why the NICO Project Vert will likely be sporting a BoostDesigns or Import AutoPerformance kit in the very near future - we'll be doing a full writeup on the install and results for your edification. In addition, it appears we'll be bringing one or the other of them aboard as a sponsor of NICO, specifically the KA-T forum.

The rest of you who are affiliated with shops providing KA-T kits will be more than welcome to keep abreast of the project, but we'll be keeping a much closer eye on violations of our commercial posting rules.

This forum will be a little more closely moderated, as I believe the KA-T will explode in popularity in the coming year... Stay tuned!

[IvanAtSPRacing]

I believe that Norbert has the best interest of the KA-T comunity in mind. He personally been missled by companys only looking for a buck. He is one of the OGs when it comes to KA-Ts. He has run more turbo kits and fueling setups then probably everybody here. He started when there was only ONE way to turbo a KA and paid the price for having inadequate fueling. Two close friends of his got caught up in the whole IAP craze and paid for it in the end. One of those cars is here at my shop getting a PK built motor to replace the motor that melted its self down due to boost creep. The other car has been here numerous times to straighten out issues with the kit. Norbert spends a lot of time here at the shop watching the progress of the cars we are building and parts we are designing and fabricating. His knowledge is extensive when it comes to fabrication and construction as he works in the machinist career field. He knows what works and what will only work for a while because he has been there. I can understand his concern for others that are lured into turboing a KA because there is and inexpensive kit out on the market. This puts people that really have no business owning a turbo car in a position to boost for cheep. When this happens and they have problems, this only hurts the KA reputation and the 240 community. This forum and others like it SHOULD be used to educate people on the risks they take when it comes to increasing the performance of their cars. With the price you can get an S13 for and the inexpensive "basic" kits on the market, just about anybody can have a turbo KA-T. This will lead to a lot of dis-satisfied consumers when problems start happening.

Those that have experience in the HP turbocharged world will naturally be cautious about a "cheap" manifold. They know that in order for it to be cheap, there are sacrafices being made (and trust me its not profit, people dont build manifolds for free) so talking about longevity and construction is NEEDED here. I am looking forward to seeing how the BD kit performs and how well the mani holds up.

Those that know me know that I do not like band-aid fuel systems. I (we, Sound Performance / PhatKA-T) dont like to make compromises when it comes to cars I / we build. We like to do things the best way possible. For some, this might mean they cant afford to have us work on their car or buy our products. Thats fine. Others know that it will take time to save to do things the right way and they have the patience to wait and save and are rewarded with a car that performs better and lasts longer then anything else out there. I greatly appriceate these people and help them in any way I / we can. I am here to help anybody I can and provide the best quality products that make the least amount of compromises possible. Some will see a value in that, others will see a value in spending the least amount of money possible. Either way, I wish all the best of luck.

I / we will be here next week, next year, and for years to come as I / we have been for the past 15 years. When you make a quality product at a fair price and support that product well, people will always find their way to you.

Lets all settle down and see how the BD kits hold up. The only thing that I really care about is that the truth is being told to everybody. Some of BDs advertising seems to me to be questionable. If BD is going to be a sponsor here and wouldnt mind having an open honest conversation about questions that people have, I think that would be a great step towards calming down the concernes of some people here. Here are some questions / issues I would want to see addressed. I think they make it seem that they are more then an internet resale shop. I find it odd that they claim the manifold is BD designed yet BE was selling the mani (maybe even prior to BD) yet BD claims no affiliation. I would like to get more information about the cams they offer and claim that they R&Dd that are built for them. I believe as Norbert does that they are just reselling the PDM cams made by Colt Cams. If they are, then fine, just say that. No need to decieve people. I think its wrong to make it seem that your company is something more then it really is. Giving people the impression that YOUR company designed the cams or had something to do with getting them out to the community other then making a buy-in on somthing that someone else put their hard work and effort into designing and building is just plain wrong and is a lie in my book.

BD, please come out and talk to us. Let us know about you and your business. Show us the research that went into your products. Come talk to us and build up a VALUE in your product beyond a cheap price.

[AZhitman]

Sounds fair. I will agree to some open dialogue happening here.

One way or another, we're going to have a KA-T advertiser come aboard in the very near future. Who it is remains to be seen, but suffice it to say they'll be under a microscope and future "commercial" posts from the competition will be precluded.

Side note: To address the use of other mfr's parts question, I've always believed in full disclosure here. Example: BRM Exhaust uses Magnaflow high-flow cats, resonators and mufflers exclusively, some are built especially for us to our specs and some are parts you can buy seperately from any retailer. Nothing misleading, we tested LOTS of different mufflers and resonators and these were by far the best. Coupled with our fabricators' expertise and their ability to create a system that uses the factory mounting points with minimal bends and my willingness to spend more for billet flanges, quality hardware, better piping and beefier mounts, it results in a quality product (and still costs less).

That being said, maybe we can openly discuss the differences in what's on the market. Hopefully someone will step up and decide to come aboard with a defensible product lineup and make this decision real easy.

[nr2134]

"NR2134: No offense, but you have a lot to learn about aftermarket parts suppliers and manufacturing. If you came looking for BRM Exhaust, you'd find a bedroom office and a pile of files and invoices a mile deep. Doesn't mean that I don't do my own R&D and dyno testing, it just means that it's done elsewhere and I share space with other companies manufacturing different stuff."

None taken, but I dont agree. I'm a plant mngr for an engineering/manufacturing company. I have been working here for the last 13yrs and have full control and knowledge of what goes on in the plant.Its not the same as a large speed shop, but alot of the principles are shared between both types of businesses.A while back one of the guys that worked for my company quit and opened his own place up from a garage. He contracted all his work through cheap machine shops and undercut our prices by 40%.He f#$ked us and a couple of other companies big time. At first we lost 10 accounts because of this. 8 of the companies came back to us and 2 went out of business since, including the guy that opened his own place.

Im not against small businesses. There is just certain things you didnt take into account.Large businesses have to charge a bit more for parts because of overhead, but they deliver so much more value in a different sense.Sure alot is spent on advertising etc. But most larger companies will be able to do business with you on a 30-60 day PO which gives you time to get paid first and pay out to the vendor after that. Large companies have full control over the manufacturing procedure without goin through 100 channels to make changes.Large companies also can eat up costs on f@ck ups. We had a $15k mistake 3-4 months ago. Even though it was the customers fault you can never blame it on the customer. A small business would go belly up after something like that. Even if you took the customer to court you wouldnt want to pay for the legal expenses and you probably wouldnt win in the long run anyways which means bye bye.Large companies employ alot more people giving them job security and paid insurance in most cases. Which means higher cost to you. Most small business OWNERS I know dont even have health insurance for themselves. All it takes is a minor car crash on your part and you are paying for the rest of your life.Sure alot of the larger companies dont make their own boost controllers etc. But it takes more than $10K to get a a boost controller like the HKS EVC V made. They paid alot of money to the company to do R&D and the initial buy in wasnt cheap either. Thats why they need to charge more. A small business would never be able to accomplish something like that. Thats why you need larger companies around with deep pockets. Without them technology would be @ a stand still. I for one make sure we dont buy anything made in China or deal with tech support in India.I also dont mind paying more for the same quality product from a larger company than a smaller one because you are also paying for things a smaller company wont be able to deliver.

So if you think that all the higher costs on parts are associated with advertising and wasting money I suggest you talk to someone that actually runs a large company.

I actually tried to buy cheaper tools and supplies from non brand name suppliers and manufacturers so I could save my company some cash.(and so I could get a larger X-Mas bonus )

Honestly it wasnt worth the trouble. Dont get me wrong. There is nothing wrong with beeing thrifty, but sometimes its just not worth it. Like I said I know list prices for alot of the things BD and BE offers and they are very low. Dont think Im only associated with PK and thats where I get my info from. Im good friends with SP Engineering and Stillen to name a few and I would spend my money there over a smaller unknown place any day. Even if I pay more I like knowing Im helping a company that took care of me on many occasions be around to take care of me in the future.

I fully understand that you need to start small most of the time, but there is a right way of doing it and a wrong. I dont mean rip customers off, but just dont low ball the prices. In order to become a larger business you will need an overhead. And you wont be able to pay for your overhad by making a couple bucks on certain parts. You will keep the customers happy for a while with low prices, but you will get tired of amking a marginal profit sooner or later and you will close your doors to the public.

Another thing a small performance shop should be doing is posting more in forums and not throwing" Im a sponsor in peoples faces". Hell I had my own page on 240sx.org when Shawn Shembri ran the joint a long time ago.(under Gixrboy or EvilS14 forgot which one)Does that make me right or cool..........NO!!!! If I pissed anyone off Im sorry, but I never sugar coat antyhing and never will.

"Reputations are made on many acts and are lost on one."

Sorry if Im all over the place, but it was a late night.

[hannibal]

I for one make sure we dont buy anything made in China or deal with tech support in India.

I am willing to bet one of these will happen in the next few years if your large company wishes to remain competitive.

I fully understand that you need to start small most of the time, but there is a right way of doing it and a wrong. I dont mean rip customers off, but just dont low ball the prices. In order to become a larger business you will need an overhead. And you wont be able to pay for your overhad by making a couple bucks on certain parts. You will keep the customers happy for a while with low prices, but you will get tired of amking a marginal profit sooner or later and you will close your doors to the public.

I'm not familiar with your history with the KA, but I believe youre much more knowledgable than me (not hard to do )But on the subject of starting/running a small business, I will share my thoughts. A small new company has to 'lowball' the established competition. No one would pay the same price for a Greddy kit and BD kit. He has to take advantage of his LOW overhead and lack of personel issues. These are the inherrent advantages of a smaller company.As a consumer, I'm looking for 2 things: a high quality product and a low price. As a small business, BD (aka PJ?) wants satisfied customers and a decent profit. Satisfied customers ONLY come from selling a high quality product and decent profits come from a calculated markup over cost for products.

If BD makes dcent profits and his customers receive a great product, the company will be successful. If, at some point, BD feels their profits are too small for the amount of resources being used, they simply raise their price.

With a well known reputation, he will be able to charge more for the same products. An economic principle states that customers only buy goods when they feel the product is worth more than they are paying for it. And businesses only sell goods when then feel they are being paid more than their products are worth.

We've established that BD prices are good, and I assume he's making some profit (as a consumer, I dont care how much). THe only variable left to be seen is the quality of this product and therefore how happy his customers will be in the long term.
Modified by IWannaS15 at 3:58 PM 12/4/2004

[IvanAtSPRacing]

I talked to PJ from BD yesterday for a long time. He called me because he felt I was taking every opertunity to belittle his products. I hope that he understands now that I am just looking out for the KA community and not taking personal jabs at him or BD.

Honestly, PJ seemed to be very personable and quite passionate about the KA and his products. We didnt agree on everything we talked about but he did emphasize that he will stand behind his products. I was impressed with his knowledge and the research he has put into the products he is having built for BD. I suggested that he not just tell ME what he has done while researching and developing his products but rather post that information up somewhere and let everybody see it. I think that would go a long way in making people feel more comfortable doing business with BD. It seemed he agreed and said he would be getting more information up on his web site.

As far as the whole BD / BE simularities, he explained to me that BE was a close friend of his from his home town that he was helping out by letting him offer the BD designed 3rd gen manifold for sale. Unfortunatly, it seems that some people ended up with a bad taste in their mouths. I wouldnt fault him for his friends poor judgment if this is truely the case.

I am hoping that he stands by his words and is here in the future to support his customers.

I wish him the best of luck and stand by what I have said all along: Lets see how things go before rushing to any judgements. The mani looks great in the pictures and I am sure we will soon see how it performs and holds up. If there are any issues, PJ told me he will stand behind his products and I have no reason to doubt him at this time.

[boostdesigns.com]

i generally do not post on this forum but i have read enough and wanted to put my 2 cents in. the biggest thing is i dont come on forums to have web battles i generally stay on ka-t.org becouse i am a moderator there and i like the interaction with my customers and future customers. and it takes all my time to keep boost designs going efficently so i dont post everywhere. seems like some people here have the biggest problems in the world with boost designs "even though you have never even visually seen a product" you also have a big problem with small businesses which america was built on which i must say is very narrow minded on your part. you seem to have alot of built up frustrations you need to explore but i will not come on here to have a pissing contest with you. this is a simple decision for you if you want to pay more money to buy from a big company over seas becouse it make you feel morally right to pay more money, becouse you work for a big company by all means knock yourself out if you dont like it boost designs product dont buy it!!!! but dont knock me for going out on the line and building my own business from the ground up, with MY OWN PRODUCT!you act as if i have no money tied up for R&D and everyone must just give me my product right. wrong i have cash tied up everywhere to make this happen for me and my company. i personally do not care how you feel for small businesses or boost designs i offer my product at a fair price that i am happy selling it with so please do not worry about how much money i make on my product. if i dont sell but 1 kit a month i will still be here 1 year from now. i offer customer support for my product and am here half the time till 1 in the morning answering questions. i am completely devoted to my business and customers please stop knocking me my business and small companys in general especially when you have not even had the gumption to call me, check on my company, or buy a product from boost designs. you have only spread misinformation and a hatred toward smaller businesses becouse you had a bad experince in the past with one. THATS NOT BOOST DESIGNS. so i guess if you have a bad experience with women you ???????????. this will be the last post or response to you i will give if anyone is interrested in boost designs please feel free to email me at [email protected] i will do my best to answer any of your questions or concerns. boost deigns

[RedRum240]

^ /applaud

He is right everyone.. Just because you dont have faith in a company doesnt give you the right to spread conspiracy theories about it to other people to discourage them from buying their products because that is what is going on here. Boost Design's makes awesome kits and he stands 110% behind his work.

Like my mom said "dont knock it till you try it"

[WDRacing]

Most members remember that I was going to start my own bussiness selling turbo kit as well. But being in the USAF and having a side bussiness where fabrication is involved just doesn't work. I did alot of supplier research, bought a bunch of equipment and ended up losing quite a bit of cash since the bizz never took off. So I'm all for the little guy making a dent in the HKS and Greddy's of the world.

I'm in 100% agreement with PJ on this one. If you haven't purchased a kit from him...then you need to keep your opinions to yourself...period. Until such time as a member comes forth with a complaint that can be validated, it's should be assumed that Boostdesigns is a valid company that makes a pretty good looking product at basically the best price on the market....bar none.

Lets not forget this is an automotive forum fella's. I don't care to see it littered with posts about small bussiness or ethics. Take it to the Gen Chat forum or don't talk about it at all.

Want my opinion on the whole matter, I'd buy Boostdesign's kit and the AEM EMS from IVAN and be done with it.

WD

[AZhitman]

Well said, PJ. No chance of that being your last post, get your butt back in here and tell us more about that kit!

Ivan, big props to you for a great post and for taking some time on the phone - I'm impressed at your judgement and maturity.

If nothing else comes of this, at least I know we have some of the best and brightest KA-T experts here to illuminate ALL of the darkness surrounding such a project.

I'm still comtemplating my options for the NICO Project 'Vert (which will be seen all over the US), and so far this thread has helped a ton.

[GEO]

Guys Guys, me and structure have been discussing about this kit for quite some time. If your worried about stretching the fuel or whatever. Just get Stage 1 and purchase the wp 255 fuel pump, SR 370cc injectors and a SAFC to tune it. Boom, done with a reliable fuel system.